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Russia - Plane crash lands in field after bird strike

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Russia - Plane crash lands in field after bird strike

Old 15th Aug 2019, 23:13
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airmann
Makes me wonder about whether putting gear down is really the best option in an emergency landing? I mean doesn't gear increase the chances of damage since you fully expect them to rip off after hitting the ground? Could rupture fuel tanks, fuselage? I think manufacturers reason for having them down is that they would soften the impact somewhat.
My thoughts exactly. I was always taught gear up for soft field forced landing.
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 23:34
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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1975 - B732 landed in a harvested corn field...

They made a soft landing with gear down.
Picture is attached.

After sitting there for 16 days and building a 600m long metallic improvised runway, it took off again.
This airplane was hijacked and I don't know if they landed with engines on with low fuel or engines flamed out.
Not the same case, but it shows how a gear down worked nice.

https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch...tober_1975.jpg

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Old 16th Aug 2019, 01:09
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo
What factual evidence do we have that both engines lost power and were not recovered by crew actions?
Not much altitude and certainly not enough speed for a windmill start. Plus what crew actions recover a damaged engine spitting flames?

Regarding the landing gear or not, the results speak for themselves. Who cares if they get to use the plane again?
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 02:17
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Plus what crew actions recover a damaged engine spitting flames?
On older engines you retard the throttle and then advance as necessary

On today's newer engines the engine controls will do it automatically albeit possibly with EGT exceedances
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 02:25
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Hats off to both the pilots and the engineers of the plane. There are many factors of course, pilots being crucial and lady luck helping out but the plane held together, the seats didn't break, the belts held and a thousand other little details that nobody other than techs know about all conspired to defeat Mr Murphy. That is one for us.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 02:50
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo
On older engines you retard the throttle and then advance as necessary

On today's newer engines the engine controls will do it automatically albeit possibly with EGT exceedances
Yeah sure, for surge and/or stall due to (for example) icing. But a modern fan engine won't shudder and vent smoke like that if its going to restart. I have ingested lots of birds in CFM-56 engines and never had a failure like that, despite heavy damage and damaged blades.

The min speed for a windmill start attempt on the 737 is 300 kts btw. An APU start would itself take longer than the glide portion of their flight
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 03:17
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Geez, what a tough crowd that can't wait to start crucifying the pilots for not handling it the way these keyboard captains would have.
My hats off to you Captain Yusupov, the outcome could not have been better.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 04:55
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo
What factual evidence do we have that both engines lost power and were not recovered by crew actions?
https://translate.google.com/transla...3Fid%3D3179032

In the video, the pilot starts talking at about 6min in.
They had "some" thrust on engine 2, but not enough to return.
Also deliberate choice not to put down gear because of the ditches seen.

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Old 16th Aug 2019, 05:48
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From interview with the Captain:
- After struck left engine totally failed.
- 1st decision was to return and he asked permission from tower.
- But the right engine wasn't working at full thrust and they wasn't able even to maintain the altitude they had.
- So they had to land immediately, they stopped engine and didn't down gears deliberately.
- He refuses to be called a hero, he just did that they were trained for.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 06:23
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Originally Posted by LEM
Warning the cabin crew about the imminent crash IS INDEED A PRIORITY.
You can forget all the rest, the checklist, the gear, the flaps, but SHOUTING loudly in the PA, yes SHOUTING Brace for impact, is a must, and easy to remember and to do.

I think flying the airplane in such circumstance is by far the easiest thing to do, quite easy in fact.

Applying the correct procedure is the real challenge, in every situation.
AVIATE, NAVIGATE, COMMUNICATE, In that order. The first rule of piloting. If you do not get this, you do not belong in an airplane. This crew had very little time to overcome the startle effect (that can paralyze a person for 15 to 30 seconds) and make a decision. They did an outstanding job at getting the airplane down and in a position FOR EVERYONE TO SURVIVE.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 06:45
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"Applying the correct procedure..." - ridiculous comment under the circumstances!
1. I think we will find, when investigating the training background of the pilot, that his ab initio was not conducted by a 21 year old, who did not know that a cessna 172 could be flown without a checklist or the appreciation of concepts like a rotation speed...
2. The misconception that automation complacency begins with the act of engaging the autopilot is evident in many of the posts, if the first course of action this close to the ground is to grab the QRH, who grabs the controls?
3. The primary ersponsibility of the captain is the safety of the occupants of the aircraft, under normal circumstances this can be achieved most reliably using tried and tested procedures, but as the conversation tends towards a lambasting for not entering a holding pattern and completing the ECAM actions, I worry about the degree to which pilots understand the machines they fly, the environment they operate in and the risks of believing that your LPC is representative of that instant that these pilots went with instinct and saved everyone on board.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 06:58
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LEM
Warning the cabin crew about the imminent crash IS INDEED A PRIORITY.
You can forget all the rest, the checklist, the gear, the flaps, but SHOUTING loudly in the PA, yes SHOUTING Brace for impact, is a must, and easy to remember and to do.

I think flying the airplane in such circumstance is by far the easiest thing to do, quite easy in fact.

Applying the correct procedure is the real challenge, in every situation.


LEM, you're a hard man to please. How many of us have been tested in this way? Despite the startle effect and very little time, everyone walked away, it could have been much worse. They only had time for the A of ANC. It's a brilliant result.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 07:33
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Interesting. The Captain used to be a lawyer, he worked in this profession for a few years and became a pilot thereafter.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 07:40
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Originally Posted by LEM


As I said, the call Brace for impact is a must.
And... try to apply the procedure.
Flaps 2, gear DOWN.

ahhh..better to die in a ball of flames with checklists complete than use good old airmanship and instinct to keep everyone alive?

Surely you must be kidding! I admit Iím a 330 driver but I assume the 320 goes straight into Emer Elec Config with both donkeys out which means NO NORMAL GEAR EXTENSION, NO FLAP EXTENSION, NON-NORMAL FLIGHT CONTROLS and a whole lot of bells and whistles, all at less than 1000ft...do you seriously think thereís time for the APU to start (loaded question..the answer is NO because it takes over 50secs to start the APU). Given the RW length one assumes the take off wold have been inConfig 1+F so leaving it as is was surely the best bet.

The crew did an AMAZING job and hopefully we can all learn from their experience once the reports are published, but for me, good old airmanship prevailed and thank God he didnít decide to focus on checklists or the outcome may have been different.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 07:46
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If I understand it correctly, eng#2 was running until shortly before impact.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 08:33
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Originally Posted by gearlever
If I understand it correctly, eng#2 was running until shortly before impact.
and whatís your point?
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 08:40
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pilots had seconds to decide, they decided, landed the airplane in the corn field. That is all that matters. Post festum lamentation and discussion what they should have and not should have done is irrelevant. The only thing relevant at this point is information, weather they were trained in small airplanes first (so they DO know how to fly an aircraft), or they were one of those "iPad" pilots (which I doubt).
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 09:33
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If I understand it correctly, eng#2 was running until shortly before impact.
According to the Captain it was running but not giving sufficient power to maintain altitude. He elected to land in the field and shortly before impact turned it off (good thinking).
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 09:51
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In my experience, there are times (very very few) when your only option is to chuck the checklist out of the window and fly the aircraft. It takes a good airman to know when. And this seems to me to be one of those times. Of course, it would have been nice to shout, "Brace, Brace" on the PA, but not at the expense of getting the landing right - priorities, priorities, priorities!

How many of you armchair pontificators have ever had to make a decision like the one faced by this crew?
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 09:57
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
If you're going to come down in a field with the gear still up, a crop of nicely frangible maize is probably as good as it gets.
Yep the field of dreams from now for any forced landing of something with a lot of energy to disperse safely? Would have loved to have seen the looks exchanged by the pilots after they realised they'd pulled this one off
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