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Russia - Plane crash lands in field after bird strike

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Russia - Plane crash lands in field after bird strike

Old 16th Aug 2019, 20:08
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tdracer

Not sure about the high five, but as our Finnish neighbors very cool calm and collected!
" So Captain, Transit Shut Down checklist or Full Shutdown Checklist?"
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 20:26
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by littco View Post
Chances of hitting a flock of birds in IMC/night are next to 0. Simply as birds don't tend to fly at night in IMC. One thing to grateful of!
Don't know where you got that info from. According to ICAO, 25% of all wildlife strikes between 2008-2015 occurred at night. Migratory birds do fly both night and IMC. Of the 3 I have had, 2 happened at night and one of the 2 was IMC at 2000'.

https://www.icao.int/Meetings/wildli...HRS%202017.pdf
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 20:27
  #123 (permalink)  

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Towards the mention of a deliberate tail-strike: Reader beware. It is not the PIC being quoted but a commentator on the news, most likely a bit here or there lost in the translation too. Besides, without the L/G guess what is going to touch first? Pitch for level flight with 1+F cca 5 degrees NU.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 20:45
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Originally Posted by GordonR_Cape View Post
I didn't see anyone post the FlightRadar24 profile for this flight: https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/u...fter-take-off/
Interesting - only 78 seconds from start to finish of the trace !

It's not clear (FR24 doesn't say) whether or not the height readouts are adjusted for QNH, so if they aren't you need to subtract approximately 150' from each point.

Either way, there's a bit missing from the beginning, and possibly the end, of the trace (Zhukovsky's rwy is 400' AMSL).
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 21:08
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He did a great job saved everyone. What's to bet he's also a stick and rudder pilot of some sort?
He's appropriately modest.
Like Sully he was lucky on one level. Like Sully he took it and they all walked away.

He says he's no hero, any pilot would do the same. He's right. But not all pilots could dead stick an electric jet into a cornfield.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 21:22
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Originally Posted by F-16GUY View Post
Don't know where you got that info from. According to ICAO, 25% of all wildlife strikes between 2008-2015 occurred at night. Migratory birds do fly both night and IMC. Of the 3 I have had, 2 happened at night and one of the 2 was IMC at 2000'.

https://www.icao.int/Meetings/wildli...HRS%202017.pdf
I take this on board, but my point was the chances of hitting a flock of birds at night in IMC, large enough to take out both engines is next to 0.

Seeing and hitting a flock of geese in day time is at least slightly better as you know what's happened, assuming you've seen them. As opposed to night IMC and hitting a flock of geese and not having a clue what the hells going on because there was no visual.
I guess it's a small saviour birds dont seem to like to fly at night and in clouds!
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 22:20
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Back in the days of flying checks around at night in a clapped out aircraft, local guy hit a Canada Goose at about 5000 feet (IIRC). On the windshield. Severely cut up the pilot, who managed to land safely.

Several photos of the cockpit the next day, with incredible amount of chopped goose all over everything.

So yes, they do fly at night.
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Old 16th Aug 2019, 23:25
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by F-16GUY View Post
Don't know where you got that info from. According to ICAO, 25% of all wildlife strikes between 2008-2015 occurred at night. Migratory birds do fly both night and IMC. Of the 3 I have had, 2 happened at night and one of the 2 was IMC at 2000'.

https://www.icao.int/Meetings/wildli...HRS%202017.pdf
I have seen HUGE aggregations of gulls circulating over well lit areas of Perth at night - all hours.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 00:29
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Frequently when the sh#t, (or seagull) hits the fan you often have to make a snap decision based on little more than instinct and training. There isnt time for manuals or discussions. You have to "do something" and "do it now".

In this case, whatever they did was the correct action for this particular circumstance. They kept their cool and delivered. Cant ask for more than that.

Bloody good job chaps.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 01:37
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I can't speak for all cabin crew but if I had to pick between getting a "brace brace" PA but a shoddy landing and having to guess and walking away... I'd rather walk away thanks

Sometimes you have the throw the book out and just get the job done however you can
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 05:56
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Originally Posted by gearlever View Post
Many moons ago an AUSTRIAN FOKKER crahed on a field close to at EDDM, both engines out due to icing
Pax o/b 27. They went on to an airport bus and about 20 or so took their connecting flights....
People were generally a lot tougher back in those days. After an accident, they can easily put it all behind them quickly and literally move on. No trauma counselling, nor rehab. Gee I hope they got their luggage transferred as well.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 07:05
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Birds do fly at night and in IMC

Originally Posted by littco View Post
I take this on board, but my point was the chances of hitting a flock of birds at night in IMC, large enough to take out both engines is next to 0.

Seeing and hitting a flock of geese in day time is at least slightly better as you know what's happened, assuming you've seen them. As opposed to night IMC and hitting a flock of geese and not having a clue what the hells going on because there was no visual.
I guess it's a small saviour birds dont seem to like to fly at night and in clouds!
You're ill informed littco, birds fly at night too, just like us. Alone or in flocks.

I've hit a flock of geese in between cloud layers at night while on approach. Made a nice mess of our rh flaps. Had they flown in a different direction they could have ended up into all our engines. Just luck.

And birds like seagulls tend to sit on the runway at night too. Makes you wonder if they were the first flight out that morning and if a bird check had been done.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 07:22
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Originally Posted by Mariner View Post
..birds fly at night too, just like us. Alone or in flocks.
Absolutely correct.

A heck of a lot of birds migrate at night..something that only really began to be appreciated with the introduction of radar..

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19459237

https://web.colby.edu/mainebirds/201...nal-migration/
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 08:34
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by givemewings View Post
I can't speak for all cabin crew but if I had to pick between getting a "brace brace" PA but a shoddy landing and having to guess and walking away... I'd rather walk away thanks
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole point of the brace position to improve the passengers' and F/As' chances of walking away from an abnormal landing ?

If not, then what's it for ?
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 10:56
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If not, what's it for
I guess, like a lot of the items in the safety briefing....for a perfect situation as shown on the card rather than the reality of something going wrong very quickly and having to deal with it as best as possible and it being over before most people knew it started.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 13:05
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole point of the brace position to improve the passengers' and F/As' chances of walking away from an abnormal landing ?
How exactly does bringing your head closer to the hard plastic of the seat back in front of you improve your chances? And even if you are in business or first and can actually bend down to hug your knees, doesn't it actually increase your chances of getting a spine injury? And why do we have to put our seats in an upright position if lying back is actually safer? (Cosmonauts go to space like that.)

As almost everything in aviation, the "brace position" is a compromise and the least of some evils. It is supposed to (kind of but not really) protect your head and chest from flying debris. But it's, by no means, ideal. Especially considering that it was "invented" at the times when economy had a 40-inch pitch and NASA could afford to crash an airliner just to see what happens inside. And just like most of the "common knowledge" from those times, it's a myth. Not unlike the "dangers" of activating the de-icing boots "too soon".
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 13:14
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Reading Russian press reports that both ATC and crew were aware of the birds nearby...

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Old 17th Aug 2019, 13:39
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Speaking in my capacity as a moderately-interested SLF...

For all of you debating the merits of gear up, gear down, this checklist, that checklist etc., surely the important points are these:
1) Aircraft with minimal power due to double bird strike gets down safely
2) Everyone got out safely.

Problem solved, no?
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 14:14
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by atakacs View Post
Reading Russian press reports that both ATC and crew were aware of the birds nearby...
I don’t read Russian at all, but I seem to decipher “pan-pan, pan-pan, pan-pan” amidst all that Cyrillic text.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 14:26
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Originally Posted by EnglishMartyn View Post
Speaking in my capacity as a moderately-interested SLF...

For all of you debating the merits of gear up, gear down, this checklist, that checklist etc., surely the important points are these:
1) Aircraft with minimal power due to double bird strike gets down safely
2) Everyone got out safely.

Problem solved, no?
Its about how often you are faced with this problem that the passengers care, thus the need for a deeper investigation.
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