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Ryanair flight: 'Racial abuse passenger' referred to police

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Ryanair flight: 'Racial abuse passenger' referred to police

Old 24th Oct 2018, 08:54
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Thaihawk View Post
IMHO, ATNotts was bang on the money in his post. The states of eastern Europe have a less enlightened attitude to people from certain parts of the world. This attitude may have been reflected I how the cabin crew dealt with this incident.
That's very racist of you towards the people of Poland for example.
Seems like the state of Thailand has a less than enlightened attitude to people from Eastern Europe.
That may have reflected in how useless your post on the topic is.

Most i could understand was "Don't talk to me in a foreign language".
Seems like a reasonable request but "I can't understand you" might have been more appropriate.

Anyway no matter race or anything he is being loud and sure seems aggressive yet not physically.

Who changes seat is not an indication of who "got his way". It is just the best solution if there is a disagreement for whoever of the parties is willing to change seats to do so.
It is in their best interest.
And judging from the video the passenger does not make the impression he is going to go on a rampage but that's not my call to make it was the cabin crews.
They decided the problem was solved for the time being.

If this verbal aggression deserves time in court is not my decision to make.
I probably wouldn't like to fly with this guy but to deny him transportation for life seems a bit harsh but it may very well be appropriate but also that is for Ryanair to decide.
wiedehopf is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2018, 08:54
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Could not agree more ex-XL-in-exile.

We do live in some very confused era of humanity.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 09:20
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
“I know where I do so”. But do you? In this case we’ve seen the video, which the cabin crew hadn’t. If you come across an argument in full flow how do you know who’s to blame or what started it?
I agree. We have no idea, from the video posted on YT, how this unseemly incident kicked off. The video picks up on the vitriolic barrage of abuse from the man and more or less ends with him.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 09:31
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by parabellum View Post
Quite possibly wrong but I have always thought that one had to prove damage for a trespassing charge to stick?

A Sydney, Australia lawyer, told me very recently that it is an offence to photograph someone without their permission, being careful to draw the line between deliberately taking a persons picture, without their permission and taking a picture that included a person but who was not the object of the picture. This was all related to drones but the lawyer did say that certain laws about taking a persons picture applied across the board . The photographer on the Ryan Air aircraft was, I think, without a doubt, photographing the man who was engaged in the dispute. IF the audio and visual here is illegal would it be inadmissible too? As soon as the defence can get two or three witnesses contradicting each other the case would surely be lost?
If he told you that, he was quite wrong. In Australia, there is no right to privacy under the general law. Anyone can take your picture, whether on private property or otherwise. The only carve outs from that general proposition are places where you can reasonably expect to have privacy, such as a change room or toilet. in NSW there is an offence of “voyeurism”. Using a drone to film someone might - depending on the circumstances - amount to voyeurism, public nuisance or stalking, but it’s not prima facie unlawful.

The idea that that evidence obtained in breach of a contract of carriage would not be admissible in a criminal proceeding seems pretty unlikely. Even if it was obtained in breach of the criminal law, the courts (at least in the UK and Oz) have a discretion to admit it.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 23:16
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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There's plenty of videos on YouTube regarding the legality of filming in a public place. Usually they involve police or security guards objecting to being filmed during their interactions with the public. In the UK it is allowed and they can't stop it.

This incident is hardly worth police attention, I'm sure there are more important things they can do, such as dealing with moped crime in London.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 23:23
  #86 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
 
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If he told you that, he was quite wrong.
Fair enough, I'll blame me rather than the lawyer. The subject arose when my neighbour complained that drone pictures of my property, which was going on the market, also included much of his property too. I was talking to a law firm who specialise in drone litigation but I (mis)undertood her to say that it was an offence to deliberately takes a persons picture without their permission, she then went on to cover the case for 'intrusion' etc.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 23:44
  #87 (permalink)  

...the thin end thereof
 
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I listened to it several times. He very clearly says "ugly black bastard". If you listen very carefully - the confusion comes from another passenger saying "listen" the moment he says "black" which makes it harder to discern the word and for some to incorrectly (and very generously) infer he's saying "blasted bastard". But he says "black". It's clearly a racist insult.
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 12:19
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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It's very easy to start throwing labels around and often they just make the situation worse.

This guy was guilty of appallingly bad manners and should be ashamed of himself.

If people behaved decently the world would be a better place....
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 13:40
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Kerosine View Post
You don't know all the details first hand, so in practise you may delegate that to your CM where you can. If you're told there's an aggressive man shouting racial abuse at a passenger unable to calm down or act in a civil manner, I know where I stand.

The question over whether the captain had enough information vs how you interpret someone's actions are different questions.
IF you do not have enough information then best to remove BOTH parties and let Police handle it, delay flight and request anybody with evidence to come forward.

If both parties held overnight and Police are clear who the culprit is then ensure the innocent party gets returned home PDQ including if necessary sending whole aircraft just
to bring said person back.

It looks like CC did not have enough information to go on, which makes this a difficult call, which is which best referring it and getting PIC involved with Police and Ground Handling.
Probably a bit of refresher training needed but if CC did not see or hear ANYTHING then they rely on Pax to provide evidence, this can be difficult in a fraught situation like this.
racedo is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 15:55
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiedehopf View Post
That's very racist of you towards the people of Poland for example.
Seems like the state of Thailand has a less than enlightened attitude to people from Eastern Europe.
That may have reflected in how useless your post on the topic is.

Most i could understand was "Don't talk to me in a foreign language".
Seems like a reasonable request but "I can't understand you" might have been more appropriate.

Anyway no matter race or anything he is being loud and sure seems aggressive yet not physically.

Who changes seat is not an indication of who "got his way". It is just the best solution if there is a disagreement for whoever of the parties is willing to change seats to do so.
It is in their best interest.
And judging from the video the passenger does not make the impression he is going to go on a rampage but that's not my call to make it was the cabin crews.
They decided the problem was solved for the time being.

If this verbal aggression deserves time in court is not my decision to make.
I probably wouldn't like to fly with this guy but to deny him transportation for life seems a bit harsh but it may very well be appropriate but also that is for Ryanair to decide.
From what's been published about this individual in the British tabloid media - and I won't go into details, a life ban on any airline would seem to be quite appropriate.
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 19:58
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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So what if it went to court and everything he said turned out to be true?
That she was, that, this and the other.
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 21:04
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BigEndBob View Post
So what if it went to court....
and the courtroom got to see the full raw video(s) of what happened...which seems harder and harder on to actually find on t’internet as initially at least the search engines tend to lead one into watching the edited highlights of the argument complete with voiceovers, presenters comments and subtitles of what the man said, as shown by much of the the MSM.

I’m talking about everything that was captured right from the moment the “camera(s)” started rolling, without various profanities bleeped out so it’s absolutely clear who exactly is saying what (especially the multiple uses of the F word) and without the view being cropped so we can see all the body language and gestures made by all the participants in the fracas.

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Old 26th Oct 2018, 04:59
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Now I confess that I'm no lawyer … BUT … surely there has been enough YouTuberry / casual chit-chat / idle speculation about this man's personality to justify a claim that any possible trial (if we were ever to pin down in which jurisdiction) would be fatally flawed in terms of prejudice?
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 13:14
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a8602486.html

Seems CC acted appropriately in moving the people concerned away from each other, checking that each were ok, NO CLAIMS of racial abuse were made to them and based on that the CC believed the incident of 2 passengers shouting at each other was at an end.
Realising a racial element they referred it to Essex Police.
racedo is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2018, 18:28
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Would any of this have happened if the daughter and her mother had been seated together?
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Old 27th Oct 2018, 10:56
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flyingtincan View Post
Would any of this have happened if the daughter and her mother had been seated together?
IIRC they had paid to have adjoining aisle seats.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 12:24
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Does anyone who’s watched the footage seriously contend that if it had been an elderly white lady who found herself between the vile Mr Mesher and his seat, he’d have become a paragon of patience and politeness? Yet had she been white she would have had no legal protection whatever from his disgusting tirade. Why is that fair? Indeed why isn’t it racist? Yet apparently the fact of even raising the question makes one an apologist for racism. Seriously?
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 13:01
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Does anyone who’s watched the footage seriously contend that if it had been an elderly white lady who found herself between the vile Mr Mesher and his seat, he’d have become a paragon of patience and politeness? Yet had she been white she would have had no legal protection whatever from his disgusting tirade. Why is that fair? Indeed why isn’t it racist? Yet apparently the fact of even raising the question makes one an apologist for racism. Seriously?
Interesting point indeed.
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Old 28th Oct 2018, 16:23
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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ShotOne, you should learn the laws of your country.
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