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Ryanair flight: 'Racial abuse passenger' referred to police

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Ryanair flight: 'Racial abuse passenger' referred to police

Old 21st Oct 2018, 14:51
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Ryanair flight: 'Racial abuse passenger' referred to police

Good Morning All:
Just read this disgusting news on BBC.
In the old days I would have personally got out of my seat gone back and told the s.o.b. he had two choices one apologize to the lady in question two if he did not, to get off of the airplane. If he refused have the appropriate authorities remove him from the aircraft.
The incident was badly handled by the Ryanair back end and one could never accuse the front end of having "intestinal fortitude" .

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45932027

Ryanair has been criticized for apparently failing to remove a passenger from a flight after racial abuse of a woman in her 70s.The incident, on a flight from Barcelona to Stansted on Friday, was recorded by a fellow passenger and shared on social media.Many people said Ryanair should have removed the man from the flight and threatened to boycott the airline.Ryanair said it "will not tolerate unruly behaviour like this". It has referred the matter to Essex Police.

'Loud and aggressive'In the film - viewed on Facebook more than 1.8 million times - the man can be heard being racially abusive to the woman and threatening to "push" her to another seat. He also shouts at her: "Don't talk to me in a foreign language, you stupid ugly cow." After a flight attendant intervenes, the woman says she wants to sit with her daughter and tells the man he "stinks". She says of the passenger: "Kick him out". Her daughter has told The Huffington Post the row started because her mother, 77, has arthritis and it took some time for her to move out of the way for the man to get into his seat. David Lawrence, who filmed what happened, told BBC Radio 5 Live: "Everything was calm, we were getting ready to take off. And then a man came on board and arrived at his seat, then spoke very harshly to a woman sitting in the aisle seat. "That was what got my attention as it was very loud and very aggressive. He started to shout at the woman, saying 'get out of the way', 'move your feet', 'you shouldn't be sitting here'." Mr Lawrence said no attendants initially came over. The woman's daughter, who had been sitting elsewhere, arrived and "an argument started", he said. "He pushed past the woman and went to his seat," he said, adding that what's seen in the video then unfolded - describing it as the "most disgusting exchange of racial slurs and foul language".The woman's daughter said she had taken her mother, a Windrush Generation migrant who came to the UK from Jamaica in the 1960s, on holiday to mark a year since the death of her husband. She told The Huffington Post: "I know that if I was behaving like he was - or any other black person for that matter - police would have been called and we would have been kicked off the flight."She added: "Mum's really feeling upset and very stressed about this situation, on top of the grief she's already experiencing. As for me, I'm upset about the whole thing too - the fact that the passenger wasn't taken off the plane and how the situation was dealt with." 'Horrible situation'One young man, seated in the row behind the people filmed in the video, intervened by telling the man who was shouting to stop. He has been praised for his actions. A Ryanair attendant says to the man: "Don't be so rude, you have to calm down." He then tells the older man he is going to refer the incident to his supervisor, to which the man replies: "I'm alright." "I am so shocked," Mr Lawrence said. "There was no response [from most other passengers]. No-one said anything. The young man who actually intervened... he was compelled to step forward." Mr Lawrence said it was a "horrible, horrible situation" and that he was "shocked" that Ryanair "allowed something like this just to go unchecked". BBC presenter Jeremy Vine was among those saying the incident was "beyond belief", saying Ryanair "need to explain how this man's disgusting racial abuse of the black lady in the seat next to him ends up with HER being asked to move". Shadow transport minister Karl Turner was among those to tweet about the incident, saying he would raise "the tendency of airlines to ignore this kind of behaviour". He also said "he should have been removed from the flight and handed over to the police". Critics of the incident and how it was handled said the man should have been removed - rather than the woman herself moving seats. Ryanair told the BBC: "We operate strict guidelines for disruptive passengers and we will not tolerate unruly behaviour like this. "We will be taking this matter further and disruptive or abusive behaviour like this will result in passengers being banned from travel." Essex Police said on Sunday: "This incident, which we were made aware of this morning, is believed to have taken place on a plane at Barcelona Airport. "Essex Police takes prejudice-based crime seriously and we want all incidents to be reported. We are working closely with Ryanair and the Spanish authorities on the investigation."
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Old 21st Oct 2018, 15:23
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Just watched the video on FB. Unbelievable! What cave did this neanderthal crawl out of? Best he crawl back IMO.

If I'd have been the CMDR on that flight, no way would that asshole be travelling anywhere but off my airplane.
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Old 21st Oct 2018, 15:26
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Ryanair is the go-to airline of this type of racist knuckledragger. Said knuckledragger should have been removed from the flight and served with a lifetime ban on any airline.

Hopefully m'learned friends will become involved, and criminal proceedings will ensue against this vile individual.

A shocking affair.

Edit, would the Essex Police have any jurisdiction over an incident on an Irish registered airplane at a Spanish airport?.
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Old 21st Oct 2018, 15:26
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We don't know whether this was an example of disgusting racism or mental illness but in any case it's unacceptable. Was the captain informed about the nature of the problem? Regardless of the distasteful views of this person there's a further risk of confrontation/escalation during the flight.. one I would not be willing to take. Offload is the only sensible response to a situation like this, whether it be initiated by CM or CPT.

Glad to see further answers being demanded by the authorities. Shocking.
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Old 21st Oct 2018, 21:02
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This is a shocking incident and I’m sure the said Knuckledragger will be brought to book, and rightly so. However, I’m sadly not surprised the crew did not take the correct action. I once witnessed a jumped up base supervisor ‘briefing’ new Cabin Crew that they were expected to take abuse from passengers as part of their job, and should never offload anyone as it caused delays. Truly shocking and one of the many many reasons I moved on a long time ago.
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Old 21st Oct 2018, 23:02
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I once witnessed a jumped up base supervisor ‘briefing’ new Cabin Crew that they were expected to take abuse from passengers as part of their job, and should never offload anyone as it caused delays
On a more cheerful note with a happy ending. My former airline operated a 727 Hong Kong to Taipei - Guam and onwards to various Central Pacific atolls. This was back in the early 1980's. On board one flight were several Pacific island seamen returning home after a shipping contract. One was a real nuisance, continually touching up one of the shy Pacific island air hostesses. She tearfully complained to the captain, a no-nonsense character who was a former Kittyhawk fighter pilot during the Pacific war against the Japanese.

Top of descent into Taipei, the captain handed control to the first officer, left his seat and went down the back and ordered the bloke to desist or face the consequences. The seaman considered himself a bit of a bush lawyer and argued with the captain. The captain gave him two choices. Either behave himself or the captain would arrange for him to be off-loaded at Taipei where arrangements would be made to have him tortured by the police before being thrown into indefinite jail. The seaman sat back cowed in his seat and was a model passenger all the way back to Tarawa (Republic of Kiribati).
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 01:26
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FR plane so it is EI registered, but what about the flight crew? Spain based Spaniards? CC Spaniards as well? The PIC can't step out of the cockpit to call the guy into order or offload him, is that how things are in Ryanair nowadays?

Just watched the video and with language there is no doubt the pax's intention was to offend and disturb. Can the Jamaican lady sue FR for moral damages due to its inaction?

I'm Spaniard myself and in Spanish society this is neither accepted not tolerated...
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 02:46
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I'm just stunned that the PIC didn't come out to stop this nonsense.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 03:02
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Agreed, totally unacceptable behaviour but I can’t help wondering if there’d still be such a fuss being made if the races of those involved were reversed.

The Tokyo convention of 1963 covers incidents occurring on board aircraft. If the aerobridge was still attached and the door was open then I believe local authorities have jurisdiction, but I’m not a lawyer.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 03:15
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Lots of different instructions around about FD crew getting involved in passenger disputes, not sure what the Ryan Air policy is. The idea is to avoid the possibility of any physical contact between disruptive pax, (who may be on Ice), and crew, whose job it is to fly the aircraft. In this instance I would have expected the cabin manager to report to the Captain who, in turn, would call the ground handling agent and ask for police to the aircraft immediately, to remove a disruptive pax. When the police are on board and the disruptive pax is restrained then, by all means, go back, thank the police and apologise to the ladies involved in this unfortunate incident. Charging into the fray like Batman only to get injured to the point you can't operate is not a desired outcome!
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 05:30
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It does make you wonder why the crew did not take further action by removong this character. It gives Ryanair a bad name through inaction and many will now think that condoning this inaction that racism is ok onboard.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong!
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 07:11
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Originally Posted by crewmeal View Post
It does make you wonder why the crew did not take further action by removong this character. It gives Ryanair a bad name through inaction and many will now think that condoning this inaction that racism is ok onboard.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong!
I do too, although I dislike Ryanair very much, I do it for different reasons. And further more, while it might be true that this guy is just a damn racist, there might be also more to the story, things we have not heard and seen that happened before.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 07:59
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Originally Posted by Buzzing View Post
I'm just stunned that the PIC didn't come out to stop this nonsense.
I knew a QANTAS pilot who lost a kidney dealing with a problem passenger.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 08:18
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Frankly, if I'd been a passenger and suffered a delay due to him being removed, I would not have been pleased.
The incident was over and there was no danger to the aircraft. Punishing everyone on board would not be a popular move.
Blacklist him. No more flying with Ryanair. Job done.

Leave all the high horse, PC comments to the Daily Wail.

PS. No offence intended by my use of the term 'Blacklist'.

Last edited by Flyingmac; 22nd Oct 2018 at 08:35. Reason: PC.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 08:29
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Always best to deal with problems on the ground rather than in the air.

Of course cabin crew are there for the safety of passengers, but if your airline doesn’t care for your welfare you’re hardly like to care for their customers are you? In any event from what I’ve seen on board the many FR flights I’ve been on the primary function appears to flog cheap tat.

Just how much authority does a FR skipper have? can he sanction free water/soft drinks let alone a diversion to off load toads like this.

As an aside the best story I ever heard was of some guys complaining about a Muslim passenger sat next to them and asking to be upgraded or for him to be moved, the Captain was called by the cabin chief and he came down to listen to the point these guys where making and said if I move him will you be happy, yes they replied, the Captain said to the Asian gent “sorry about this please follow me” and moved him to the business class section saying you don’t really want sit near retards like that.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 09:33
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Originally Posted by Flyingmac View Post
Frankly, if I'd been a passenger and suffered a delay due to him being removed, I would not have been pleased.
The incident was over and there was no danger to the aircraft. Punishing everyone on board would not be a popular move.
Blacklist him. No more flying with Ryanair. Job done.

Leave all the high horse, PC comments to the Daily Wail.

PS. No offence intended by my use of the term 'Blacklist'.
You would rather accept an abusive passengers presence in a tin tube for 2 hours rather than arrive 10 minutes late? If he's mentally unstable and/or drunk and gets violent in flight, would you also refuse to divert for the same reasons? As the captain, YOU are responsible for your crew. Good luck justifying your decision should anyone get injured.

Without wishing any offense, I hope for passengers and cabin crews' sakes you're not making the decisions up front. As a captain you're the only one legally able to take the decision to eject a potential threat to everyone else on the other side of that comfortably locked door. A confident CM will tell you needs ejecting, and a competent CM you can trust to make this decision even though you action it. If your CM is not either of these it's up to you to take the initiative.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 09:35
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Originally Posted by EIFFS View Post
......

Just how much authority does a FR skipper have? can he sanction free water/soft drinks let alone a diversion to off load toads like this.

.....
That authority is given by the law. Regardless of commercial pressure, as the cap you are legally obliged to take any course of action required to ensure the safety of your crew, passengers and aircraft.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 09:53
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Not a lot of authority in law for the Captain prior to door closure.
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 10:11
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Originally Posted by IcePack View Post
Not a lot of authority in law for the Captain prior to door closure.
I absolutely will not be obliged to wait until a door closure to eject a passenger I think is a threat.

You are correct in terms of the Tokyo convention and it's specific definition of 'in flight':

2. Notwithstanding the provisions of Article 1, paragraph 3, an aircraft shall for the purposes of this Chapter, be considered to be in flight at any time from the moment when all its external doors are closed following embarkation until the moment when any such door is opened for disembarkation.
That being said I am satisfied that I am legally responsible and authorised to make that decision even with the door open or airbridge attached (until someone expressly tells me otherwise).

Taken from our Operations Manual A:
Regulatory Responsibilities of the Commander

1.The commander, in addition to complying with Regulatory Authority of the Commander shall:

a. Be responsible for the safety of all crew members, passengers and cargo on board, as soon as the commander arrives on board the aircraft, until the commander leaves the aircraft at the end of the flight
IATA guidance on disruptive passengers:
When an incident occurs on board an aircraft, the Pilot-in-Command has the ultimate authority on how to address the situation.

Last edited by Kerosine; 22nd Oct 2018 at 10:35. Reason: multiple additions with documents cited
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Old 22nd Oct 2018, 10:23
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Hence getting the police is the best policy. Ejecting pax without legal authority, you may find yourself defending your action in court. I agree with kerosine, but be prepared to have a year or so of your life ruined. The law is quite “an ass” around the commanders authority on ground due to various cases in the past.
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