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EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

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EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

Old 19th Apr 2018, 21:56
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
Not arguing....But just wondering what the evidence is for that,

As far as I'm aware, the only UK airline which has successfully benefited is Easy, and even then to nothing like the extent of O'Leary's Flying Circus.

But....How about my $10 against your $10 that not even 4.3%, forget 43%, of UK <> EU flights will suddenly be grounded come BREXIT day.

The rest of your post, yes I agree....
That 43% was a figure from a consortium of British Airports, which headlined last year. I'll try to find a link for it. I agree that if agreement is found with the EU, which I suppose it will be(???), then planes will fly. The cost of that agreement would also, I suppose, be high.

Regarding your other point, Britain has around 1000 registered commercial Airliners. The majority of those are benefiting from EU open skies. I'm baffled by your first statement, it's wrong.
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Old 19th Apr 2018, 22:00
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jayteeto View Post
OMG
This is disastrous!

We might have to stop flying in Europe, like the Americans/ Middle East countries and Australians do.....

Hang on a minute.............
But we will have to stop doing trips to other Euro nations from another Euro nation, meaning the shorthaul market will take a kicking. Cabotage anyone?
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Old 19th Apr 2018, 22:14
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Looking for the link to my previously mentioned point and found this interesting article:

https://centreforaviation.com/insigh...irlines-380522
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Old 19th Apr 2018, 22:53
  #104 (permalink)  
zz9
 
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Originally Posted by BluSdUp View Post
In a meeting last year in EU , Junker was making a plan to react to UK.
He looks around the table and asks every EU country to make a list of what they and EU needed from UK in the future. So as to have a list of things EU could not do without !

The room fell silent as everyone worked hard!
After a few seconds someone concluded :

Nothing!

Gone flying!
Cpt B
How will Airbus do without wings?

And the UK will be the EU's biggest single export market after Brexit. Any significant loss to that trade will hurt them big time.
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Old 20th Apr 2018, 00:02
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by polax52 View Post
That 43% was a figure from a consortium of British Airports, which headlined last year. I'll try to find a link for it. I agree that if agreement is found with the EU, which I suppose it will be(???), then planes will fly. The cost of that agreement would also, I suppose, be high.

Regarding your other point, Britain has around 1000 registered commercial Airliners. The majority of those are benefiting from EU open skies. I'm baffled by your first statement, it's wrong.
You're CAPA link is interesting - some articles definitely thought provoking, some absolutely not.

As for the 1,000 UK aircraft benefiting from EU Open Skies....

Again, not arguing, but in which / what way ? I'm sure someone will come on very quickly and correct me, but at the moment I can only think of Easy who have non-UK bases with permanently based aircraft flying on a UK AOC and with UK crews, who have made the same success of EU Open Skies as, say, Ryanair, Wizz, Germanwings, Transavia, Vueling, etc....

Maybe that's just a UK thing, but EU Open Skies has certainly not helped the majority of UK airlines a whole lot more than good, old, bi-Laterals had the UK never been in the EU. If anything, UK airlines have struggled as bottom feeders from Eastern and Southern Europe have taken huge percentages of the UK <> EU market and beyond the EU.

At the end of the day, I reckon aviation in general will not be hugely affected come BREXIT day, despite the EASA announcement EXCEPT crews and engineers who will have to decide whether to stay where they are now ; head for home from wherever they are now ; or up sticks and go to wherever because they like / dislike the impact BREXIT might have on their careers.
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Old 20th Apr 2018, 02:50
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
You're CAPA link is interesting - some articles definitely thought provoking, some absolutely not.

As for the 1,000 UK aircraft benefiting from EU Open Skies....

Again, not arguing, but in which / what way ? I'm sure someone will come on very quickly and correct me, but at the moment I can only think of Easy who have non-UK bases with permanently based aircraft flying on a UK AOC and with UK crews, who have made the same success of EU Open Skies as, say, Ryanair, Wizz, Germanwings, Transavia, Vueling, etc....

Maybe that's just a UK thing, but EU Open Skies has certainly not helped the majority of UK airlines a whole lot more than good, old, bi-Laterals had the UK never been in the EU. If anything, UK airlines have struggled as bottom feeders from Eastern and Southern Europe have taken huge percentages of the UK <> EU market and beyond the EU.

At the end of the day, I reckon aviation in general will not be hugely affected come BREXIT day, despite the EASA announcement EXCEPT crews and engineers who will have to decide whether to stay where they are now ; head for home from wherever they are now ; or up sticks and go to wherever because they like / dislike the impact BREXIT might have on their careers.
Prior to open skies in Europe, Airlines such as Monarch or Britannia were only able to run charter flights to agreed holiday destinations. They could not just say we're now going to operate a scheduled service from e.g. Gatwick to Malaga. The bilateral that would exist between the UK and Spain would be the agreement that BA can fly a certain number of scheduled services to Madrid and in return Iberia could run a certain number of scheduled services to London. It is that level of relationship we'll start at when Britain leaves the EU.

I agree with your first reply to me that this is unlikely to happen because at any cost we must obviously have a deal with the EU. If not the following Airlines, to name a few, would almost certainly be bankupt;

DHL UK
Flybe
Jet 2
Easyjet UK

Ryanair in the UK would stop operations

If somebody could tell me that there is some other Bilateral arrangement that I don't know about then I'd be pleased to hear it, because I want to be wrong. If I'm right then for this reason alone, a no deal Brexit is unacceptable.

Willie Walsh say's that anybody who believes the above is living on cloud cuckoo land, does he say that because he has to for the sake of the IAG share price? or does he say it because he knows there's going to be a deal?
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Old 20th Apr 2018, 09:43
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54
At the end of the day, I reckon aviation in general will not be hugely affected come BREXIT day, despite the EASA announcement EXCEPT crews and engineers who will have to decide whether to stay where they are now ; head for home from wherever they are now ; or up sticks and go to wherever
After nearly two decades of licences by the UK CAA ... believe it is time to look elsewhere ...

Next door Ireland IAA might be an option, but heard only good things about Swiss FOCA.

Any feedback available about the licensing work of this authorities ? Any authority that has a good level of English, and is relatively expeditious in their administrative work (something that is really not happening at the moment at the UK CAA) would do me fine ?

Last edited by zerograv; 21st Apr 2018 at 08:59. Reason: spelling
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Old 21st Apr 2018, 00:23
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by polax52 View Post
Willie Walsh say's that anybody who believes the above is living on cloud cuckoo land, does he say that because he has to for the sake of the IAG share price? or does he say it because he knows there's going to be a deal?
Well, he runs a Spanish airline, so may not be too nervous about the situation. Wiki for IAG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...Airlines_Group

I admit I don't know the intricacies of cross-border holdings in Europe, but I suspect they could get their situation sorted a lot easier than some others.

That said, I'm pretty sure (well, at least hopeful...), that there will be a deal.
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Old 21st Apr 2018, 01:10
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by polax52 View Post
Prior to open skies in Europe, Airlines such as Monarch or Britannia were only able to run charter flights to agreed holiday destinations. They could not just say we're now going to operate a scheduled service from e.g. Gatwick to Malaga. The bilateral that would exist between the UK and Spain would be the agreement that BA can fly a certain number of scheduled services to Madrid and in return Iberia could run a certain number of scheduled services to London. It is that level of relationship we'll start at when Britain leaves the EU.

I agree with your first reply to me that this is unlikely to happen because at any cost we must obviously have a deal with the EU. If not the following Airlines, to name a few, would almost certainly be bankupt;

DHL UK
Flybe
Jet 2
Easyjet UK

Ryanair in the UK would stop operations

If somebody could tell me that there is some other Bilateral arrangement that I don't know about then I'd be pleased to hear it, because I want to be wrong. If I'm right then for this reason alone, a no deal Brexit is unacceptable.

Willie Walsh say's that anybody who believes the above is living on cloud cuckoo land, does he say that because he has to for the sake of the IAG share price? or does he say it because he knows there's going to be a deal?
It seems likely that keeping planes flying will become a bigger issue than the Irish border by the end of this year. Airlines operate on such fine margins and require such high rates of cash flow that just the suggestion of groundings may cause a hiccup in reservations and possible subsequent insolvencies.
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Old 21st Apr 2018, 03:25
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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zerograv

Could be you should check out the IAA Part-FCL licence transfer programme. Looks like the way to go for a lot of UK CAA licence holders.

Irish border question could kill any possible Withdrawal Agreement and hence Transition Agreement, resulting in UK crashing out of the EU, midnight, 29 March 2019. I'd guess you'd want to be ahead of the herd, rather than trampled underfoot?
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Old 21st Apr 2018, 09:04
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Highcirrus

Thanks for the link. I will check that possibility.
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Old 22nd Apr 2018, 08:53
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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As I understand, irrespective of everything, the UK pilot licence will still be an ICAO licence after brexit right?
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Old 22nd Apr 2018, 09:11
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Yep, but i guess the CAA have some significant work in transitioning from an administrative back to a regulatory organisation.

Alos, a bit screwed flying for a European AOC if you dont hold an EASA licence. Dont see many FAA licence holders flying for European carriers do you? But an FAA ticket is an ICAO licence surely?

Estimated 1400 Brexit voters shuffling on a day at the moment. My prediction is we will be exited for 5 years max before the political landscape swings back and Gen X takes its pound of flesh through a reintegration referendum.
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Old 26th Apr 2018, 17:41
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...ion-safety.pdf

I guess one option would be to remain in EASA without voting rights, having no say in the rules or any influence and therefore having to abide by them.
Which would be ridiculous for the country with the largest aviation industry in Europe.
And subject to the ECJ, which I suspect the likes of Boris, JRM and others might just have view on.
Is that what you Brexiteers voted for?
The disaster that is Brexit rolls on.
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Old 26th Apr 2018, 18:12
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Whichever way people voted, I say the disaster is the way it is being negotiated.There doesn’t seem to be a single coherent strategy.
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Old 26th Apr 2018, 18:26
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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It was 37.44% of the British Electorate that voted leave, not ‘the people’. But shall we stay on-topic? The Swiss participate in EASA without a vote. That doesn’t stop them from attending and ‘influencing’ the proposals which are voted on.

I’m not certain if a consensus is necessary or if it is just a majority that is necessary. That option is open, or you could take your football and go home.
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Old 26th Apr 2018, 19:50
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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zz9

I think Airbus will get a nice discount on the wings when they start making alternate plans,,,, Dont You!
Also all the Lego AB gets from a lot of different countries, are certified by EASA or whatever EU rule , not CAA.
Any aircraft part is taxfree , so no, Airbus gets plenty of wings.

With regards to UK being EUs biggest export market and EU suffering after brexit I think we were told at age 10 in school how that works.
No International Master in Business needed for that one: Export and Import between a big country and a small, The big one set the rules!

UK used to be a Superpower in aviation ,I read Flight International since ca 1981 and have a fair grasp of Aviation.
As Base Captain in Glasgow for a small turboprop operator in 1999 I was in shock how incompetent some UK operators and the CAA was.
Now the UK is a sad shade of itself , especially in the Aviation sector.

EU has to fight hard for it future, quitters are never treated nice in any club. UK could have made a big difference in rewriting EUs " Future"! But always being a" Besserwisser" has backfired , Dear Old Chap!

At best this will slow down Europe, including UK the next say 10 years.
Worst case, UK stop existing!
Europe will do good, me thinks.
Good luck to all
Cpt B
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Old 27th Apr 2018, 09:44
  #118 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by VinRouge View Post
My prediction is we will be exited for 5 years max before the political landscape swings back and Gen X takes its pound of flesh through a reintegration referendum.
Hmm, I wonder if the EU27 would gladly welcome the prodigal son back in 5 years? I predict that once left, it will take a generation before the EU will consider the UK joining again
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Old 27th Apr 2018, 11:13
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FiveGirlKit View Post
Hmm, I wonder if the EU27 would gladly welcome the prodigal son back in 5 years? I predict that once left, it will take a generation before the EU will consider the UK joining again
Without a doubt. Of course there would be mumbling and moaning in various languages but they all would agree because the union would be better with the U.K. As would EASA.
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Old 27th Apr 2018, 12:09
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder if the EU27 would gladly welcome the prodigal son back in 5 years?
Not sure about 5 years but if it happened at all it would be without the various opt outs the UK currently enjoys....
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