USA Today: UA forcibly remove random pax from flight
(pax). I think WC can only mean that the planning and circumstances which lead to the need to clear 4 seats after boarding, rather then before, was not necessarily a c*ck up.
Subsequent events weren't a c*ck up, they were a PR disaster.
This sort of situation, passengers boarded, need to release seats for operational reasons, can't be unprecedented as WC implies, so presumably training recognises that there may be occasions were inducement fail. Can I ask you professionals what the Plan B is to deal with this and when can physical measures on a passenger be requested?
As pax this information would be useful as I need to know when I should cower.
Do what's right, respect others and perform with excellence.
Subsequent events weren't a c*ck up, they were a PR disaster.
This sort of situation, passengers boarded, need to release seats for operational reasons, can't be unprecedented as WC implies, so presumably training recognises that there may be occasions were inducement fail. Can I ask you professionals what the Plan B is to deal with this and when can physical measures on a passenger be requested?
As pax this information would be useful as I need to know when I should cower.
Do what's right, respect others and perform with excellence.
Even if justified and I do not say they were, the methods used to remove the supposed "belligerent" pax were seriously flawed.
The way his head impacted that seat rest ...I am surprised he was not more serously injured ..potential head trauma, neck injury.
Looked like bullies in a bar fight.
I would be not surprised if he is on the speed dial of a ravenous, slavering horde of litigation attorneys.
The way his head impacted that seat rest ...I am surprised he was not more serously injured ..potential head trauma, neck injury.
Looked like bullies in a bar fight.
I would be not surprised if he is on the speed dial of a ravenous, slavering horde of litigation attorneys.
It's refreshing to see that the United States Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation is asking very pointedly several of the questions many on pprune have been asking which certain others here have seemed to disdain.
In particular p3 onward:
http://www.pprune.org/attachments/ru...l-incident.pdf
In particular p3 onward:
http://www.pprune.org/attachments/ru...l-incident.pdf
Q. When it was decided to include law enforcement to remove Dr Dao, what reason was given for his removal? Were the police simply told that a "disruptive and belligerent passenger needed evicting" or was the full picture given.
It may explain, but not justify, their heavy handedness.
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Nice find Robdean. I would suggest that a crucial question is missing though.
Q. When it was decided to include law enforcement to remove Dr Dao, what reason was given for his removal? Were the police simply told that a "disruptive and belligerent passenger needed evicting" or was the full picture given.
It may explain, but not justify, their heavy handedness.
Q. When it was decided to include law enforcement to remove Dr Dao, what reason was given for his removal? Were the police simply told that a "disruptive and belligerent passenger needed evicting" or was the full picture given.
It may explain, but not justify, their heavy handedness.
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By the look of things in this forum, with all these law and absolute SOPs abiding aircrew, and all sorts legal reasons and fine printing to bump pax out of a plane, or downgrade them from business class to cattle hold under threat of being cuffed, I get the feeling that travelling by air inside U.S. is akin to boarding a bus in Manila: you never know what will happen next!
My thoughts.
United will NEVER let this go to trial for many reasons, firstly the publicity (the trial might be a year away) and secondly they are screwed if they lose or win. Lose... oh dear, Win... public sentiment will whip them more.
My bet, six figure settlement and gag order, United will be beating a path to his hospital bed with contract and check in hand.
United will NEVER let this go to trial for many reasons, firstly the publicity (the trial might be a year away) and secondly they are screwed if they lose or win. Lose... oh dear, Win... public sentiment will whip them more.
My bet, six figure settlement and gag order, United will be beating a path to his hospital bed with contract and check in hand.
Hems, Mr Optimistic. Thanks chaps.
I will be honest and admit I read on from page 3 as instructed by Robdean. I was worried that failing to comply with his instruction would get me kicked out of my living room ;-)
I will be honest and admit I read on from page 3 as instructed by Robdean. I was worried that failing to comply with his instruction would get me kicked out of my living room ;-)
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This sort of situation, passengers boarded, need to release seats for operational reasons, can't be unprecedented as WC implies, so presumably training recognises that there may be occasions were inducement fail. Can I ask you professionals what the Plan B is to deal with this and when can physical measures on a passenger be requested?
I would make the point that similar problems are an everyday occurrence and are dealt with utilising these very same resources by professional aircrew everywhere and everyday. When stubbornness and intransigence is simply met by digging heels in and showing whose boss you get the first management failure. When (very unusually) you get a cascade failure, the danger is that something like this will result.
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My thoughts.
United will NEVER let this go to trial for many reasons, firstly the publicity (the trial might be a year away) and secondly they are screwed if they lose or win. Lose... oh dear, Win... public sentiment will whip them more.
My bet, six figure settlement and gag order, United will be beating a path to his hospital bed with contract and check in hand.
United will NEVER let this go to trial for many reasons, firstly the publicity (the trial might be a year away) and secondly they are screwed if they lose or win. Lose... oh dear, Win... public sentiment will whip them more.
My bet, six figure settlement and gag order, United will be beating a path to his hospital bed with contract and check in hand.
Satco
My airline is not relevant other than to say its not UA. Boycott UA all you want, there's at least a good chance mine will be flying you then, my bonus check being that much larger.
My airline is not relevant other than to say its not UA. Boycott UA all you want, there's at least a good chance mine will be flying you then, my bonus check being that much larger.
(pax) Bealzebub, thank you, makes sense. I suspect you are right. The whole thing is depressing and for once I feel sympathy for a CEO. Tiananmen Square took this sort of authority to it's limits. If this is how the staff performed under minor aggravation, how would they respond in a serious situation in an accident?
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There is still the problem, that probably a few people thought they were following standard procedure? Is this "just" a PR incident or is it much worse than that? I am tempted to say, based on my impression from what I read, that this event calls for more regulation and maybe also a heavy fine (WAY above the "six-digit" figure) to set the example.
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This sort of situation, passengers boarded, need to release seats for operational reasons, can't be unprecedented as WC implies, so presumably training recognises that there may be occasions were inducement fail. Can I ask you professionals what the Plan B is to deal with this and when can physical measures on a passenger be requested?
In this case, the airline stopped raising the amount past $800, and converted from a mode of asking for voluntary cooperation to involuntary removal by force.
How does this happen? Was someone too lazy to pick up a phone and ask management if they could go higher in the amount offered? Too much pressure to meet the departure time? It doesn't matter. No passenger will ever understand or accept this way of doing business. The airline has no need of a Plan B, as long as sufficient incentive is available for voluntary cooperation.
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If this is how the staff performed under minor aggravation, how would they respond in a serious situation in an accident?
Just like the personnel involved I have many other options for getting from A to B.
Bealzebub. Well OK but this does seem like a mildly stressing situation in which a cascade of decisions were made that turned it into a global event and caused the boss of bosses to issue a mea culpa. This was not professional. It will be used in training courses to a room full of sniggering students for years. How impeccable behaviour and correct decision making gets to this point I don't know.
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We don't know the extent of injuries to Dr. Dao when law enforcement slammed his head into the armrest -- only that there was blood everywhere requiring a cleanup team before the plane could depart.
About 20,000 people in the US die every year from falls in the home, many where their head strikes a wall, a table or other object. That's from just falling down, not because they were thrown down.
This could have actually been much worse. Dr. Dao could have been killed or permanently disabled. Even worse scenarios than that were possible. Imagine if it was his wife being slammed around, and if instead a diminutive elderly man he was a hulking ex-marine? He sees his wife slammed against an armrest, knocked out and laying in a pool of blood. It doesn't take much imagination to envision various escalation steps which would lead to further tragedy.
It is quite possible, perhaps even likely, that the airlines have some sort of disincentive against 'excessive' overbooking compensation awards built into the compensation structure of the relevant staff. That might explain why the offer of compensation stopped well short of the voluntary minimum authorized by law.