Emirates B777 gear collapse @ DXB?
What's more relevant is how much runway they had to stop in after both main gear were on the ground. From the report's Appendix A diagram, both gear were on abeam N4 taxiway. That gives about 2600m to the end of the stopway.
Last edited by Bleve; 6th Sep 2016 at 09:12.
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We are in "what if" territory but 2600 m is more than sufficient for a b777 below max landing weight on a dry runway.
The fact is that both pilots initiated a go around with flap and gear selection, even read back go around instructions, while not realising thrust was at idle! When they eventually did notice, at 85 feet and 134 kts, it was to late to recover.
The fact is that both pilots initiated a go around with flap and gear selection, even read back go around instructions, while not realising thrust was at idle! When they eventually did notice, at 85 feet and 134 kts, it was to late to recover.
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did PF really not hit TOGA, or did they just omit it in the report? It seems really baffling such a critical step of procedure was missed 
looks like PM also failed on the SOP by selecting gear up without first calling positive climb
looks like PM also failed on the SOP by selecting gear up without first calling positive climb
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It look more like the PF did not realise that having touched down TOGA buttons Inop and only way to get TOGA is firewall the levers .
(I'm not B777 rated , electric wonder jet where this is always the only way to get TOGA)
(I'm not B777 rated , electric wonder jet where this is always the only way to get TOGA)
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You will not get TOGA automatic thrust but you will get full thrust with firewalling the levers in a B777 as the thrust is always linked to throttle position in a boeing. You must make sure though that the levers remain firewalled.
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skydler
It doesn't matter whether the PF hit the TOGA buttons or not. For good reasons, those buttons are deactivated after touchdown.
Hey, maybe Nil further is correct. The Airbus system is more easily understood than Mr Boeing's finest???
It doesn't matter whether the PF hit the TOGA buttons or not. For good reasons, those buttons are deactivated after touchdown.
Hey, maybe Nil further is correct. The Airbus system is more easily understood than Mr Boeing's finest???
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I think the automatic TOGA thing has been beaten to death.
I'm curious, from a human factors/performance point of view if this accident was caused by an unnecessary computer call out which might have been ignored by the crew by looking out the window and using judgement. You know if you float a lot, or a little. Looking at the arithmetic supplied by others it might be that they floated a bit from 400m - 1000m. That might have triggered the computer; I've no idea how it calculates its triggers. But also there are those who claim the remaining 2600m of ground roll is more than enough to stop. I suspect they are correct.
In other words "was this GA necessary?" If not, then why do it? Is it an SOP to do so if 'Long Landing' is called?
If this call was the initiation of the whole scenario, then what followed was a technical misunderstanding & mis-airmanship with thrust & gear. So if there was no need to GA then there was no accident; so the accident started with a shifting wind, perhaps causing a float causing a computer call out. I suspect there are many slices of holy cheese that lined up PDQ'ly.
I'm curious, from a human factors/performance point of view if this accident was caused by an unnecessary computer call out which might have been ignored by the crew by looking out the window and using judgement. You know if you float a lot, or a little. Looking at the arithmetic supplied by others it might be that they floated a bit from 400m - 1000m. That might have triggered the computer; I've no idea how it calculates its triggers. But also there are those who claim the remaining 2600m of ground roll is more than enough to stop. I suspect they are correct.
In other words "was this GA necessary?" If not, then why do it? Is it an SOP to do so if 'Long Landing' is called?
If this call was the initiation of the whole scenario, then what followed was a technical misunderstanding & mis-airmanship with thrust & gear. So if there was no need to GA then there was no accident; so the accident started with a shifting wind, perhaps causing a float causing a computer call out. I suspect there are many slices of holy cheese that lined up PDQ'ly.
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Its actually quite easy and nothing to do with what button does what in what circumstance. These two bozos simply forgot the basics of how to fly. The big question is how and why.
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Old and horrified
The big question is indeed 'how and why'!
If a certain button produces the result you want on 99% of occasions you've ever used it, and if seeing a positive climb before raising the gear has ALWAYS worked before....
Then there lies a trap. Which needs to be well understood. Well briefed and perhaps most importantly well TRAINED!
Calling people 'bozos' simply because they fell foul of their human failings tells us more about the person using that term, than the individuals at the sharp end of a very, very long chain of the decisions of other people!
Fortunately, in the 21st century, in some parts of the world, there is a more enlightened approach than yours, which has an infinitely greater chance of saving future deaths!
Its actually quite easy and nothing to do with what button does what in what circumstance. These two bozos simply forgot the basics of how to fly. The big question is how and why.
If a certain button produces the result you want on 99% of occasions you've ever used it, and if seeing a positive climb before raising the gear has ALWAYS worked before....
Then there lies a trap. Which needs to be well understood. Well briefed and perhaps most importantly well TRAINED!
Calling people 'bozos' simply because they fell foul of their human failings tells us more about the person using that term, than the individuals at the sharp end of a very, very long chain of the decisions of other people!
Fortunately, in the 21st century, in some parts of the world, there is a more enlightened approach than yours, which has an infinitely greater chance of saving future deaths!
Company SOP to go around if not touched down in touch down zone.
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I don't understand, if the commander's hand was guarding the 'Thrust Levers' at this critical
stage why he didn't naturally push forward and have some power even if not full thrust during the go round. Did he have both hands on the control column?
stage why he didn't naturally push forward and have some power even if not full thrust during the go round. Did he have both hands on the control column?
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I thought one thing that been beaten to death was that the aircraft was cleared to land," wind 100 11 kts". The report implies it was given 340 11kts. Could a 777 pilot comment on whether he would have pushed on with the landing with that wind?
Since that wind is below the aircraft tailwind limit, yes they should have pressed on with that wind.
Tail wind limitation for most aircraft is 15 knots, so it was under limits if the landing performance allowed the aircraft to land in the available landing distance for that weather conditions.
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Quoting from the OM-A stable approach criteria:
if a valid "LONG LANDING" alert (smart landing-equipped aircraft) or a Runway Overrun Warning relevant to the current runway state (A380) is activated, then the PM shall announce "GO AROUND" and an immediate go-around shall be flown.
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MULTIPLE WIND SHIFT
FLARE & TOUCHDOWN PAST TDZ
RAAS "long landing, long landing"
Panic, impulsive reaction, Sop???
GO AROUND INITIATED
NO THRUST !!!!!!
FLAP + GEAR RETRACTED !!!!!
VREF -13 KTS
"CHECK SPEED"
FULL THRUST
"DON'T SINK DON'T SINK"
TOO LATE !
Amazing !!!
FLARE & TOUCHDOWN PAST TDZ
RAAS "long landing, long landing"
Panic, impulsive reaction, Sop???
GO AROUND INITIATED
NO THRUST !!!!!!
FLAP + GEAR RETRACTED !!!!!
VREF -13 KTS
"CHECK SPEED"
FULL THRUST
"DON'T SINK DON'T SINK"
TOO LATE !
Amazing !!!