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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

Old 13th Mar 2016, 06:55
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WSJ Article

Doctor Wanted Germanwings Co-Pilot to Be Hospitalized
Pilotís doctors didnít inform authorities out of fear of breaching Germanyís privacy laws

Doctor Wanted Germanwings Co-Pilot to Be Hospitalized - WSJ
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 07:42
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Final report

The BEA Sshould published its final report today.

https://www.bea.aero/en/investigatio...vec-le-relief/
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 11:28
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Live press conference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIJTtKNRd5w
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 12:27
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Interesting Tubby, thanks for the link, and some interesting stuff from the BEA gents.

What do you reckon the chances really are of all newbies getting affordable and adequate Loss of Licence Insurance, perhaps through their employer?
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 12:29
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"THIS VIDEO IS PRIVATE"
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 12:33
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I'm afraid you've missed it, Tubby's link worked fine but the live conference streaming finished about five minutes ago - at around 1230 French Time/1130 UK
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 12:43
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https://www.bea.aero/uploads/tx_elyd...0125.en-LR.pdf


Final report (English)
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 14:26
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Wiggy, I would guess the chance would be nil from a lot of employers. Loss of licence insurance is very expensive to employers and those airlines that do retain it have been watering down the cover for many years.
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 14:38
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4.3 Mitigation of the consequences of loss of licence

The co-pilot was aware of the decrease in his own medical fitness and of the potential impact of his medication. However, he did not seek any advice from an AME, nor did
he inform his employer. One of the explanations lays in the financial consequences he would have faced in case of the loss of his licence. His limited Loss of License
insurance could not cover his loss of income resulting from unfitness to fly. More generally, the principle of self-declaration in case of a decrease in medical fitness is
weakened when the negative consequences for a pilot of self-declaration, in terms of career, financial consequences, and loss of self-esteem, are higher than the perceived
impact on safety that failing to declare would have.Organisations, especially airlines, can reinforce self-declaration of a decrease in medical fitness of their staff, by acting on some of the consequences of unfitness, by
offering motivating alternative positions and by limiting the financial consequences of a loss of licence, for example through extending loss of licence coverage.
Consequently the BEA recommends that:

EASA ensure that European operators include in their Management Systems measures to mitigate socio-economic risks related
to a loss of licence by one of their pilots for medical reasons.


IATA encourage its Member Airlines to implement measures to mitigate the socio-economic risks related to pilots’ loss of licence for medical
reasons.
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 14:46
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Tubby

Yep, aware of that, nevertheless I was quite interested that the provision (or not) of LOL featured quite so prominently in the Board's comments (as HH has posted) .....then again they're French and so perhaps not surprisingly have a interesting view on Employers' obligations ....
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 15:06
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So it looks to me like this comes down to, in any other country, the pilot would have been reported by the medical professionals and grounded until his treatment was completed.
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 15:29
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The Royal Aeronautical Society is holding a conference on aircrew mental health and well-being on 9 May in London. The link here shows that there is a considerable problem that needs to be discussed and treated properly - no knee jerk reactions - but a serious investigation as to how to deal with this issue in a fair way:- Royal Aeronautical Society | Insight Blog | Aircrew mental health and well-being: 2015 to 2040

Read the link and take note of the statistics!
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 15:34
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akaSylvia

So it looks to me like this comes down to, in any other country, the pilot would have been reported by the medical professionals and grounded until his treatment was completed.
I suspect the German medical privacy laws are a result of the happenings before and during WWII and the euthansia program T4 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_T4) in which doctors were 'implicated and even forced to disclose medical confdences' to the state authorities.

Any change to these laws are going to have to be debated in the German Parliament and any form of international legislation will be invalid as German state law is supreme.
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 15:50
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So would German State law be supreme over EU law?
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 16:04
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Parkfell,

So would German State law be supreme over EU law?
Yes it is. Any law from an outside 'state' would have to go befoe the German Constitutional Court. This was put in place post 1945 to stop the state implementing things like the T4 programme.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...urt_of_Germany
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 16:10
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Wiggy,
The practice of pay to fly entry for new entrants to the industry places a huge burden on the junior pilot to stay healthy so that their financial investment can be repaid, I cannot imagine how much of a burden this would be to a young pilot who thinks that they may be in danger of losing their career for medical reasons. Perhaps rather than a loss of licence policy the employer could cancel the training debt.
The press conference mentioned that in other industries employees were offered alternative employment at similar renumeration if they experienced medical problems ,but I have never heard of any similar offer to a pilot.
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 16:18
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Are we missing the point?

Surely all this talk about breaching Germany's strict privacy laws is missing the point. It seems to me the physician(s) who examined Lubitz and had serious misgivings as to his health should have refused to clear him for flying duty. Any resulting repercussions would have been kept confidential between the physician(s) and Germanwings/Lufthansa.

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Old 13th Mar 2016, 16:24
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tubby

I agree 100%. I'll have another look at the text of the interview but I know one of the employers who will shift people to desk jobs was SNCF, the other was the French Nuclear Industry - I guess one of the advantages of working for an (effectively) nationalised company in a country heavy on social legislation. That said I don't think it's widespread workers right, even in France.

Where I work I can think of perhaps only a single individual I work who ended up behind a desk having lost his licence, but I believe even that wasn't a permanent position and he eventually left the company.
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 18:57
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So how many will seek medical help, (for anything)If they know the doc may report them?
So how will the authorities react to a call from an estranged partner or some other mal content.

Only way is to legislate descent Loss of Licence insurance.
(Granted that too could be inappropriately used, but at least the innocents may be protected.)
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 19:39
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Surely all this talk about breaching Germany's strict privacy laws is missing the point. It seems to me the physician(s) who examined Lubitz and had serious misgivings as to his health should have refused to clear him for flying duty. Any resulting repercussions would have been kept confidential between the physician(s) and Germanwings/Lufthansa.
Actually, the privacy law is the whole point. Doctors are not allowed to contact the employer, if they even know who that is. Yes, the AME does know, but has it even easier by informing the LBA (german CAA) and they will pull his license, just takes about six weeks. But any normal MD does not need to know the employer, the profession or anything else about his patient, and cannot contact any other third party except in case of a direct threat to others. Which apparently none of his doctors saw. There is absolutely no direct link between employer and MD.
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