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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

Old 19th Feb 2016, 04:57
  #3361 (permalink)  
 
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Although it has been done to death, a stick in the belly of the PNF would have helped...
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Old 19th Feb 2016, 05:15
  #3362 (permalink)  
 
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Although it has been done to death, a stick in the belly of the PNF would have helped...
Yep...just like it helped in the Asiana accident at SFO, and Turkish at Amsterdam, where tactile feedback through the yoke and throttles averted disas...oh wait.

My thoughts (FWIW) - maybe an "Air Marshal" on the jump seat? Or would that be another weak point if it was the Air Marshal that became temporarily unbalanced
Are you joking?
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Old 19th Feb 2016, 05:35
  #3363 (permalink)  
 
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Turkish and Asiana also had three pilots on the flight deck, and they both missed the low speed/low energy states.
How about more mandated hands on flying?
How about twice a year airline pilots do one hours flying in a Cessna? No autopilot, no IFR just good old look out the window and throw the plane around the sky?
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Old 19th Feb 2016, 05:48
  #3364 (permalink)  
 
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Flying a Cessna VFR has precious little to do with operating an airliner (although I suppose every little helps). It would be far more useful for all airlines to have a sensible automation policy that encourages raw data, manual flying on the line when appropriate.
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Old 19th Feb 2016, 08:10
  #3365 (permalink)  
 
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there might be a significant difference between three pilots in the cockpit and two pilots and a systems engineer. what air france and air aisia (and Aeroperķ Flight 603) hi-light is that computerisation did not do away with the need for an engineer just that that roll changed. If someone in either of those cockpits understood the systems and had a deep understanding of how various faults manifest those disasters arguably would have been averted. The problem was that the pilots could not figure out what information was valid and what to ignore. a dedicated systems engineer could have told them.
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Old 19th Feb 2016, 08:42
  #3366 (permalink)  
 
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Publication final report Sunday, March 13, 2016

FYI. Found this yesterday on the Bea website.
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Old 19th Feb 2016, 10:23
  #3367 (permalink)  
 
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Direct link to the BEA website for this crash.

https://www.bea.aero/les-enquetes/le...vec-le-relief/
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 05:55
  #3368 (permalink)  
 
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WSJ Article

Doctor Wanted Germanwings Co-Pilot to Be Hospitalized
Pilotís doctors didnít inform authorities out of fear of breaching Germanyís privacy laws

Doctor Wanted Germanwings Co-Pilot to Be Hospitalized - WSJ
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 06:42
  #3369 (permalink)  
 
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Final report

The BEA Sshould published its final report today.

https://www.bea.aero/en/investigatio...vec-le-relief/
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 10:28
  #3370 (permalink)  
 
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Live press conference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIJTtKNRd5w
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 11:27
  #3371 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting Tubby, thanks for the link, and some interesting stuff from the BEA gents.

What do you reckon the chances really are of all newbies getting affordable and adequate Loss of Licence Insurance, perhaps through their employer?
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 11:29
  #3372 (permalink)  


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"THIS VIDEO IS PRIVATE"
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 11:33
  #3373 (permalink)  
 
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I'm afraid you've missed it, Tubby's link worked fine but the live conference streaming finished about five minutes ago - at around 1230 French Time/1130 UK
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 11:43
  #3374 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.bea.aero/uploads/tx_elyd...0125.en-LR.pdf


Final report (English)
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 13:26
  #3375 (permalink)  
 
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Wiggy, I would guess the chance would be nil from a lot of employers. Loss of licence insurance is very expensive to employers and those airlines that do retain it have been watering down the cover for many years.
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 13:38
  #3376 (permalink)  
 
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4.3 Mitigation of the consequences of loss of licence

The co-pilot was aware of the decrease in his own medical fitness and of the potential impact of his medication. However, he did not seek any advice from an AME, nor did
he inform his employer. One of the explanations lays in the financial consequences he would have faced in case of the loss of his licence. His limited Loss of License
insurance could not cover his loss of income resulting from unfitness to fly. More generally, the principle of self-declaration in case of a decrease in medical fitness is
weakened when the negative consequences for a pilot of self-declaration, in terms of career, financial consequences, and loss of self-esteem, are higher than the perceived
impact on safety that failing to declare would have.Organisations, especially airlines, can reinforce self-declaration of a decrease in medical fitness of their staff, by acting on some of the consequences of unfitness, by
offering motivating alternative positions and by limiting the financial consequences of a loss of licence, for example through extending loss of licence coverage.
Consequently the BEA recommends that:

EASA ensure that European operators include in their Management Systems measures to mitigate socio-economic risks related
to a loss of licence by one of their pilots for medical reasons.


IATA encourage its Member Airlines to implement measures to mitigate the socio-economic risks related to pilots’ loss of licence for medical
reasons.
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 13:46
  #3377 (permalink)  
 
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Tubby

Yep, aware of that, nevertheless I was quite interested that the provision (or not) of LOL featured quite so prominently in the Board's comments (as HH has posted) .....then again they're French and so perhaps not surprisingly have a interesting view on Employers' obligations ....
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 14:06
  #3378 (permalink)  
 
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So it looks to me like this comes down to, in any other country, the pilot would have been reported by the medical professionals and grounded until his treatment was completed.
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 14:29
  #3379 (permalink)  
 
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The Royal Aeronautical Society is holding a conference on aircrew mental health and well-being on 9 May in London. The link here shows that there is a considerable problem that needs to be discussed and treated properly - no knee jerk reactions - but a serious investigation as to how to deal with this issue in a fair way:- Royal Aeronautical Society | Insight Blog | Aircrew mental health and well-being: 2015 to 2040

Read the link and take note of the statistics!
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Old 13th Mar 2016, 14:34
  #3380 (permalink)  
 
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akaSylvia

So it looks to me like this comes down to, in any other country, the pilot would have been reported by the medical professionals and grounded until his treatment was completed.
I suspect the German medical privacy laws are a result of the happenings before and during WWII and the euthansia program T4 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_T4) in which doctors were 'implicated and even forced to disclose medical confdences' to the state authorities.

Any change to these laws are going to have to be debated in the German Parliament and any form of international legislation will be invalid as German state law is supreme.
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