Ryanair and 900 hours a year limitation?
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IAA doing their bit???
IAA to probe flying hours records of Ryanair pilots
By Eamon Quinn
Dublin, Ireland, 25 August, 2002
The Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) has appealed to Ryanair pilots to contact the authority if they feel they are in danger of exceeding the limit of permitted work hours.
The confusion over hours stems from the introduction of a new roster by the low-cost airline.
The airline industry regulator now plans to re-examine the documentation of all Ryanair pilots to determine if the switch to a new roster last April inadvertently meant pilots were working longer hours in any single rolling 12-month period.
Michael O'Leary, chief executive of Ryanair, has denied that any of the company's pilots have flown more than the regulated hours due to the switch to the new roster, which was introduced with the pilots' agreement.
The IAA said it was concerned about British newspaper reports which cited worries over flying hours among some Ryanair pilots on the new roster.
"You can take it that we will be looking at all 360 pilots in Ryanair, just in case there have been breaches," said Denis Hegarty, the IAA's corporate policy director. "We certainly want to clarify with the company what the position is."
The IAA polices regulations prohibiting its 2,000 Irish-registered pilots from flying more than 900 hours in any 12-month period. The IAA was contacted last week by one Ryanair pilot who was concerned he would soon breach his 900-hour annual working limit.
The IAA said its rules stipulating the hours a pilot can work in rolling 12-month and 28-day periods and what constitutes a pilot's duty are identical to those of its British counterpart, the Civil Aviation Authority.
IAA to probe flying hours records of Ryanair pilots
By Eamon Quinn
Dublin, Ireland, 25 August, 2002
The Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) has appealed to Ryanair pilots to contact the authority if they feel they are in danger of exceeding the limit of permitted work hours.
The confusion over hours stems from the introduction of a new roster by the low-cost airline.
The airline industry regulator now plans to re-examine the documentation of all Ryanair pilots to determine if the switch to a new roster last April inadvertently meant pilots were working longer hours in any single rolling 12-month period.
Michael O'Leary, chief executive of Ryanair, has denied that any of the company's pilots have flown more than the regulated hours due to the switch to the new roster, which was introduced with the pilots' agreement.
The IAA said it was concerned about British newspaper reports which cited worries over flying hours among some Ryanair pilots on the new roster.
"You can take it that we will be looking at all 360 pilots in Ryanair, just in case there have been breaches," said Denis Hegarty, the IAA's corporate policy director. "We certainly want to clarify with the company what the position is."
The IAA polices regulations prohibiting its 2,000 Irish-registered pilots from flying more than 900 hours in any 12-month period. The IAA was contacted last week by one Ryanair pilot who was concerned he would soon breach his 900-hour annual working limit.
The IAA said its rules stipulating the hours a pilot can work in rolling 12-month and 28-day periods and what constitutes a pilot's duty are identical to those of its British counterpart, the Civil Aviation Authority.
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I know of a ryanair driver who had done 1200 hrs for the year.
He was taken off line but the following day was told that because they were short of crews he would have to pitch up and work.
The 900 hr a year rule was devised when the airlines were flying long haul. I do 700 hrs a year short haul a year, doing 900 a year or more would be just unsafe.
I wouldn't like to fly on a ryan with a pilot on his 5th or 6th sector of the day when the weather is bad and it has all been going wrong.
He was taken off line but the following day was told that because they were short of crews he would have to pitch up and work.
The 900 hr a year rule was devised when the airlines were flying long haul. I do 700 hrs a year short haul a year, doing 900 a year or more would be just unsafe.
I wouldn't like to fly on a ryan with a pilot on his 5th or 6th sector of the day when the weather is bad and it has all been going wrong.
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It is true that some companies weeks begin on a Monday morning. So the 55 duty hours per week, 60 hours with delays, absolute maximum only applies if its from Monday to Sunday.
One would think that this rule was to ensure avoidance of fatigue and that the point was that if you work more than 55 (or 60) hours in a week you will be bloody knackered.
Working for a typical charter operator I usually get days off mid week yet our week officially starts on Monday. Last week my working week started on the previous Friday. By the end of Tuesday I had managed 52 hours, and then had a nice 11 hours of night duty to complete (having been woken at 0530 the previous morning being called out - got home at around 8pm that night after yet another change part way through the duty). So I managed 63 hours by the start of the 7th day. But of course, I wasn't tired because my week had started on a Friday!!!!
So I am looking forward to "only" doing the 53 hours I have rostered for this week (subject to any changes of course).
Admittedly there were changes, I got called out from a couple of standbys, one of which was caused by an ongoing rostering problem and the other caused by technical problems. I think I now have 103 flying hours rostered for this month (that is what you could call good pilot utilisation).
I suspect FTLs will continue to be pushed to the limits by the airlines until a major accident is caused by fatigue.
I think the attitude is that there hasn't been a major accident yet therefore we should be working our crews more, a sort of reverse logic if you get my point.
One would think that this rule was to ensure avoidance of fatigue and that the point was that if you work more than 55 (or 60) hours in a week you will be bloody knackered.
Working for a typical charter operator I usually get days off mid week yet our week officially starts on Monday. Last week my working week started on the previous Friday. By the end of Tuesday I had managed 52 hours, and then had a nice 11 hours of night duty to complete (having been woken at 0530 the previous morning being called out - got home at around 8pm that night after yet another change part way through the duty). So I managed 63 hours by the start of the 7th day. But of course, I wasn't tired because my week had started on a Friday!!!!
So I am looking forward to "only" doing the 53 hours I have rostered for this week (subject to any changes of course).
Admittedly there were changes, I got called out from a couple of standbys, one of which was caused by an ongoing rostering problem and the other caused by technical problems. I think I now have 103 flying hours rostered for this month (that is what you could call good pilot utilisation).
I suspect FTLs will continue to be pushed to the limits by the airlines until a major accident is caused by fatigue.
I think the attitude is that there hasn't been a major accident yet therefore we should be working our crews more, a sort of reverse logic if you get my point.
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AG, the reason for the "Administrative Week" beginning at a specified time, specified day each week was to reduce the workload of companies in calculating the 7-day totals.
The CAA some time ago stated that, with the advent of computerised systems in most companies nowadays and therefore no calculation problem for large roster establishments, they were no longer prepared to accept "Administrative Weeks" and intended that all companies should change to a rolling 7-day total. They hoped that this could be done voluntarily, but that should there be any evidence that their approach to the rules be misused by companies, they would enforce the change.
There should, therefore, be a change to your company's Ops Manual in the offing with a change to a rolling 7-day calculation. If not, you may care to consider a CHIRP report.
The CAA some time ago stated that, with the advent of computerised systems in most companies nowadays and therefore no calculation problem for large roster establishments, they were no longer prepared to accept "Administrative Weeks" and intended that all companies should change to a rolling 7-day total. They hoped that this could be done voluntarily, but that should there be any evidence that their approach to the rules be misused by companies, they would enforce the change.
There should, therefore, be a change to your company's Ops Manual in the offing with a change to a rolling 7-day calculation. If not, you may care to consider a CHIRP report.
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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Airbus girl
Can I draw your attention to this example of fatigue:
http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/bulletin/jan99/gbbaf.htm
The commander and the first officer had expressed their reservations about carrying out a flight at a late report time with no opportunity for adequate rest. At the time of report it would have been difficult for the crew to estimate how their performance would be affected later in the night.
Time since sleep is a recognised factor contributing to fatigue in air crew. Both the commander and the first officer had awakened early on the morning of the 18 July. The time of circadian trough falls between 0300 and 0500 hrs local time, 0200 to 0400 UTC for this crew. Most human functioning is affected by circadian rhythms, including heart rate, brain activity, vigilance and performance. The crew must therefore have been experiencing a reduced level of alertness at the time of the accident.
Nothing changes.
Can I draw your attention to this example of fatigue:
http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/bulletin/jan99/gbbaf.htm
The commander and the first officer had expressed their reservations about carrying out a flight at a late report time with no opportunity for adequate rest. At the time of report it would have been difficult for the crew to estimate how their performance would be affected later in the night.
Time since sleep is a recognised factor contributing to fatigue in air crew. Both the commander and the first officer had awakened early on the morning of the 18 July. The time of circadian trough falls between 0300 and 0500 hrs local time, 0200 to 0400 UTC for this crew. Most human functioning is affected by circadian rhythms, including heart rate, brain activity, vigilance and performance. The crew must therefore have been experiencing a reduced level of alertness at the time of the accident.
Nothing changes.
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AG:
You suggest that only a major accident will awaken the CAA's of this world to the plight. In the USA the FAA seem to be opposing the feudal attitudes of management, but only in so much as they are not going to allow rosters of more than 16hours. AGH! IS that progress??
However, you may remember the B737 freighter crash at Coventry some years ago. The ARB sighted fatigue as a likely cause, yet the crew had performed less than allowed under CAP 371. But then it was freighter and it was N. African, so nothing happened and things have got worse, despite that opinion. Seems it will have to be a new shiny jet of UK reg' with lots of Brits onboard to make any change. I sincerely hope it'll never happen and other means will be found to enforce common sense.
Is that not a union is for, national standards, but that is on
another thread already.
What scares me is that the employers are trying to extend the FTL's of JAA to match the performance of the a/c so that they don't need heavy crews. If they get away with that it will the death of the profession.
Don't let your children in the cockpit captain Worthington.
Interesting that one about the CAA attitudes to rolling 7 day/week rostering. I heard that it is a new introduction at some outfits. If I'm correctly informed, what is a Flight Ops inspector for??
It would seem that each pilot is their own guardian, or worst enemy; and I appreciate the plight of those under the cosh by management. I did challenge the crewers and rosters and ops managment to stay in their spaceous air conditioned TV'd canteened offices, but work my roster for a couple of weeks. It was declined in derision.
Keep the nose in the blue bit and you'll be OK
You suggest that only a major accident will awaken the CAA's of this world to the plight. In the USA the FAA seem to be opposing the feudal attitudes of management, but only in so much as they are not going to allow rosters of more than 16hours. AGH! IS that progress??
However, you may remember the B737 freighter crash at Coventry some years ago. The ARB sighted fatigue as a likely cause, yet the crew had performed less than allowed under CAP 371. But then it was freighter and it was N. African, so nothing happened and things have got worse, despite that opinion. Seems it will have to be a new shiny jet of UK reg' with lots of Brits onboard to make any change. I sincerely hope it'll never happen and other means will be found to enforce common sense.
Is that not a union is for, national standards, but that is on
another thread already.
What scares me is that the employers are trying to extend the FTL's of JAA to match the performance of the a/c so that they don't need heavy crews. If they get away with that it will the death of the profession.
Don't let your children in the cockpit captain Worthington.
Interesting that one about the CAA attitudes to rolling 7 day/week rostering. I heard that it is a new introduction at some outfits. If I'm correctly informed, what is a Flight Ops inspector for??
It would seem that each pilot is their own guardian, or worst enemy; and I appreciate the plight of those under the cosh by management. I did challenge the crewers and rosters and ops managment to stay in their spaceous air conditioned TV'd canteened offices, but work my roster for a couple of weeks. It was declined in derision.
Keep the nose in the blue bit and you'll be OK
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I have to say I am absolutely appalled at the attitude of some of the posts on this thread which clearly back Ryanair's positon. It is not possible that they are from Ryanair pilots and their tone suggests that they are from management. Even Capt Prune is in fear of these people!
As a 737 pilot and a prospective passenger with Ryanair I am very worried that these allegations are not taken seriously by these people, who appear to be in positions within Ryanair where they have some say.
On the other hand maybe this is one possible means of communicating with the company. When you book with them on line there is no phone number and you can not email them with queries. They only provide you with an address in Dublin to write to and we have already heard in the latest revue of airlines attitude towards passengers that Ryanair do not reply to their letters (or cooperate with the organisation which conducted that revue)!
As a 737 pilot and a prospective passenger with Ryanair I am very worried that these allegations are not taken seriously by these people, who appear to be in positions within Ryanair where they have some say.
On the other hand maybe this is one possible means of communicating with the company. When you book with them on line there is no phone number and you can not email them with queries. They only provide you with an address in Dublin to write to and we have already heard in the latest revue of airlines attitude towards passengers that Ryanair do not reply to their letters (or cooperate with the organisation which conducted that revue)!
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where do people like flap 5 come from?
i'm a ryanair pilot. these allegations are untrue.
i do not fly over 900 hours, nor did any of the guys and gals.
our rosters are issued 28 days in advance, they are fixed thereafter, dont change, we get 5 days off every 2 weeks guaranteed, and enjoy the best rostering i hav ever experienced. i can tell you my roster for any day for next 2,4,6 months. can flap 2?
while i'm at it, we got 3% in april, and more share options,with 15 more new a/c coming this winter, so i guess promotions for abt 75 new capts, and jobs for abt 80 or 90 new f/o's. i note that mighty b.a. are offering 1% and easy guys hav turned down 2% on their smaller packages- now gee why did we turn down balpa last year? why are ppruners who dont work here and clearly havent a clue abt our rosters - or our 18 year- yup, 18 year safety record so quick to criticise? oh yeah, i forgot i must be fr mgt- doh!!!!!!
i'm a ryanair pilot. these allegations are untrue.
i do not fly over 900 hours, nor did any of the guys and gals.
our rosters are issued 28 days in advance, they are fixed thereafter, dont change, we get 5 days off every 2 weeks guaranteed, and enjoy the best rostering i hav ever experienced. i can tell you my roster for any day for next 2,4,6 months. can flap 2?
while i'm at it, we got 3% in april, and more share options,with 15 more new a/c coming this winter, so i guess promotions for abt 75 new capts, and jobs for abt 80 or 90 new f/o's. i note that mighty b.a. are offering 1% and easy guys hav turned down 2% on their smaller packages- now gee why did we turn down balpa last year? why are ppruners who dont work here and clearly havent a clue abt our rosters - or our 18 year- yup, 18 year safety record so quick to criticise? oh yeah, i forgot i must be fr mgt- doh!!!!!!
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If your roster is only published 28 days ahead, how come you know what you're doing up to 6 months ahead? Or if rosters are that stable, why do they bother publishing them at all?
If nobody in RyanAir ever exceeded their hours, why was the IAA concerned enough to ask for extra safeguards to be put in place? How come there have been several allegations made to various bodies?
How do you know that "none of the guys and gals" flew over 900 hours? Did you ask them all? Or are you, perhaps, in a position to know? Or perhaps you're just wanting to bulls**t us into the standard FR spin position?
What relevance do you think your pay rise or your share options (for what they're worth) have to the discussion?
How do you think your figures for crewing 15 new aircraft work out? You think 75 new captains from the existing FO's? And only 80-90 new FO's to replace those? Something doesn't quite add up there.
If you think that 18 years without an accident is good, then you don't understand anything about Safety Management. Perhaps you ARE in FR management?
If you are so proud of having turned down BALPA, why do you think FR management was so neurotic and paranoid about BALPA moving in? Why the artificial increase in numbers of STN-based pilots? Why the warnings to people not to vote "yes"?
I know quite a few pilots in FR personally. At least one was an instructor of mine many years ago. I drink with them, I talk to them, we exchange information. With one exception, I have the greatest respect for them as pilots, as professionals. Sorry, but IMHO you have an awful company to work for, and an awful boss.
If nobody in RyanAir ever exceeded their hours, why was the IAA concerned enough to ask for extra safeguards to be put in place? How come there have been several allegations made to various bodies?
How do you know that "none of the guys and gals" flew over 900 hours? Did you ask them all? Or are you, perhaps, in a position to know? Or perhaps you're just wanting to bulls**t us into the standard FR spin position?
What relevance do you think your pay rise or your share options (for what they're worth) have to the discussion?
How do you think your figures for crewing 15 new aircraft work out? You think 75 new captains from the existing FO's? And only 80-90 new FO's to replace those? Something doesn't quite add up there.
If you think that 18 years without an accident is good, then you don't understand anything about Safety Management. Perhaps you ARE in FR management?
If you are so proud of having turned down BALPA, why do you think FR management was so neurotic and paranoid about BALPA moving in? Why the artificial increase in numbers of STN-based pilots? Why the warnings to people not to vote "yes"?
I know quite a few pilots in FR personally. At least one was an instructor of mine many years ago. I drink with them, I talk to them, we exchange information. With one exception, I have the greatest respect for them as pilots, as professionals. Sorry, but IMHO you have an awful company to work for, and an awful boss.
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 27th Aug 2002 at 13:54.
Jolly Green Giant
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Hugmonster, you really don't have a clue, it's quite scary. You've been banging your "nail Ryanair" drum for so long now on PPRuNe, it's getting boring. A while ago you promised a TV program was coming that was going to expose Ryanair, where is it??
Having a few pints with the lads does not make you an expert on the internal workings of the company. Like all the other fairy tales about Ryanair, this will pass by and the public will keep on buying. Don't kid yourself Huggy, that's just the way it is.
Well done ILUV2FLY for having the balls to come in and answer this complete bulls**t.
Having a few pints with the lads does not make you an expert on the internal workings of the company. Like all the other fairy tales about Ryanair, this will pass by and the public will keep on buying. Don't kid yourself Huggy, that's just the way it is.
Well done ILUV2FLY for having the balls to come in and answer this complete bulls**t.
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All I've done is point out a few inconsistencies in the story, and ask a few questions.
ILUV2FLY posted a load of codswallop that simply does not hang together and does not answer the points already raised. If you can't see that, then I suggest it is not I who doesn't have a clue! I was giving him the opportunity to explain further, or correct misunderstandings, that's all.
Merely stating that the allegations are untrue might have done it. However, ILUV made the mistake of over-egging it, and in his enthusiasm he managed to raise a whole load of contradictions that rather suggest, much though he may deny it, that he was posting from within a few feet of the boardroom!
The simple answer is - don't merely tell people they're talking nonsense. Answer the allegations! How about answers to some of the questions I raise? Or are you, too, so far into your hero-worship of MO'L that you can see no more than him the difference between fact and fiction?
ILUV2FLY posted a load of codswallop that simply does not hang together and does not answer the points already raised. If you can't see that, then I suggest it is not I who doesn't have a clue! I was giving him the opportunity to explain further, or correct misunderstandings, that's all.
Merely stating that the allegations are untrue might have done it. However, ILUV made the mistake of over-egging it, and in his enthusiasm he managed to raise a whole load of contradictions that rather suggest, much though he may deny it, that he was posting from within a few feet of the boardroom!
The simple answer is - don't merely tell people they're talking nonsense. Answer the allegations! How about answers to some of the questions I raise? Or are you, too, so far into your hero-worship of MO'L that you can see no more than him the difference between fact and fiction?
Jolly Green Giant
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Sorry to disapoint you Huggy, but I certainly do not hero worship MO'L (now Tony Ryan is anonther matter!!) I think he can be boorish, arrogant and goes over the top on occasions, but one thing he is, is an outstanding CEO of Ryanair. You can't argue with the financial results that he's achieved at the helm.
I'll say it again, I have nothing to do with Ryanair, never worked for them and I never will. I just call it like I see it. And my experience in the business helps me recognise a good thing when I see it.
I'll say it again, I have nothing to do with Ryanair, never worked for them and I never will. I just call it like I see it. And my experience in the business helps me recognise a good thing when I see it.
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Sure - nobody would argue that the man has a talent for making money. So did Jeffrey Archer and Robert Maxwell.
So what?
(My personal opinion is that not only is he boorish and arrogant and over the top, but also a liar, a bully, and a cheat.)
If money is all that matters to you, then I feel sorry for you. What matters more to me is treating people well, being honest, providing a service (especially the service advertised), trying not to bully one's employees, seeing human beings as human beings rather than merely business assets, and so on.
Furthermore, it sounds as if I have rather more contact with the inner workings of FR than you do, my contacts actually going beyond "having a few pints with the lads". I won't detail more - people's jobs are at risk. Yet you maintain I know nothing and you know everything? Interesting.
So what?
(My personal opinion is that not only is he boorish and arrogant and over the top, but also a liar, a bully, and a cheat.)
If money is all that matters to you, then I feel sorry for you. What matters more to me is treating people well, being honest, providing a service (especially the service advertised), trying not to bully one's employees, seeing human beings as human beings rather than merely business assets, and so on.
Furthermore, it sounds as if I have rather more contact with the inner workings of FR than you do, my contacts actually going beyond "having a few pints with the lads". I won't detail more - people's jobs are at risk. Yet you maintain I know nothing and you know everything? Interesting.
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Hugmonster
I can't answer your questions but can offer comments on some.
"If nobody in RyanAir ever exceeded their hours, why was the IAA concerned enough to ask for extra safeguards to be put in place?" Perhaps in reviewing the FTL arrangements in the light of recent complaint the IAA has identified some weakness. The fact that they are closing stable door doesn't mean that the horse has bolted.
"How come there have been several allegations made to various bodies?" I can think of various reasons. It is interesting to note that only one of the allegations appears to have been made the the IAA, Ryanair's regulator. It hardly suggest systematic abuse of the system.
"If you think that 18 years without an accident is good, then you don't understand anything about Safety Management. Perhaps you ARE in FR management?" It certainly doesn't prove that they are unsafe though.
I don't work for Ryanair, I don't work for the IAA, I couldn't hero worship someone who wears jeans nor am I in any other way involved in the a conspiracy.
I'm not saying your wrong, but some of your arguements are a bit shakey.
If as you suggest, you have evidence of safety breaches you could send it to DfT: [email protected]
I can't answer your questions but can offer comments on some.
"If nobody in RyanAir ever exceeded their hours, why was the IAA concerned enough to ask for extra safeguards to be put in place?" Perhaps in reviewing the FTL arrangements in the light of recent complaint the IAA has identified some weakness. The fact that they are closing stable door doesn't mean that the horse has bolted.
"How come there have been several allegations made to various bodies?" I can think of various reasons. It is interesting to note that only one of the allegations appears to have been made the the IAA, Ryanair's regulator. It hardly suggest systematic abuse of the system.
"If you think that 18 years without an accident is good, then you don't understand anything about Safety Management. Perhaps you ARE in FR management?" It certainly doesn't prove that they are unsafe though.
I don't work for Ryanair, I don't work for the IAA, I couldn't hero worship someone who wears jeans nor am I in any other way involved in the a conspiracy.
I'm not saying your wrong, but some of your arguements are a bit shakey.
If as you suggest, you have evidence of safety breaches you could send it to DfT: [email protected]
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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I don't want to prejudge things however it would seem that Ryanair have already apparently admitted their guilt in the Ryanair Management notice copied from Six.Sigma on the 27th August.
"Ryanair operates to an approved flight time limitation system, whereby no Ryanair pilot can fly more than 900 hours in any year. Any Ryanair pilot who reaches 900 hours is not allowed to fly until the commencement of the following year. The year runs from 01 April to 31 March inclusive, to co-incide with Ryanair's holiday year. Additionally Ryanair's pilots are also subject to individual monthly limits of 100 flight hours".
The limit as I understand it from month end to month end so it would appear that Ryanair are not complying for 11 months out of 12 because they are not monitoring it.
Which poses the question what have the IAA been doing up until the Times highlighted the problem?
As "I cannot remember who" was previously alledged to say "we will ignore that legislation" or similar.
"Ryanair operates to an approved flight time limitation system, whereby no Ryanair pilot can fly more than 900 hours in any year. Any Ryanair pilot who reaches 900 hours is not allowed to fly until the commencement of the following year. The year runs from 01 April to 31 March inclusive, to co-incide with Ryanair's holiday year. Additionally Ryanair's pilots are also subject to individual monthly limits of 100 flight hours".
The limit as I understand it from month end to month end so it would appear that Ryanair are not complying for 11 months out of 12 because they are not monitoring it.
Which poses the question what have the IAA been doing up until the Times highlighted the problem?
As "I cannot remember who" was previously alledged to say "we will ignore that legislation" or similar.
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sorry hug-m havnt had chance to check the latest loonie posts from the ryan bashing brigade, altho i knew u and a few others could be relied upon for more fiction masquerading as fact.
so u dont work here, but r an fr expert cos u drink with 'the lads'.
better still ur 'contacts' go way beyond drinks with lads- to what?
maybe drinks with 'the girls'? possibly lunch with mol? maybe u are even one of the ryans come back to this world as a prof pilot?
let me say again as an fr pilot- your prev posts were rubbish. typical of bar talk which is as close to 'fact' as u come.heres ur answers (since 'the lads' havnt given u any)
rosters r published 28 days in adv to allow for reqs,leave,s/bys,training,etc. things that prof pilots hav to do, but presumably u and the lads dont. other than this i can plot my earlies-off-lates-off for the next 2,4,6, months as i wish. ask ur impecable sources among the lads its v simple to follow.
nobody exceeded the ftls cos c. pilot confirmed in writing with agree of iaa on friday to this effect.to quote 'both parties confirmed that neither fr nor its pilots hav breached curr ftls'.
i admit i dont know abt 'further saefguards' but above line is good enough for me, and nails u 'experts' claim to contrary.
pay rise and share options and a1 rosters are v relevant in responding to the bizarre anti-ryan bias of this and many other posts on pprune. theyre called facts hug-m. u should try some.
on recruitment i know fm h.o.t that fr policy is to recruit and train slightly more fo/so's to allow for small no of fo/so's who dont meet our standard. adds up to me, check with 'the lads'
if u think 18 years without an accident isnt good try 18 years with one. a lot of rubbish passes thru pprune on subject of fr and low fares airlines safety, yet their record in europe is excellent and southwest is outstanding- or maybe hug-m and the lads think were just lucky.
im not proud of turnin down balpa but our lads did a better deal with the devil incarnate (thats mol hug-m) than anything done by balpa with b.a or easy. ill happily sign for balpa when they can show they do better. what i dont like is balpa jumpin on the anti ryan bandwagon just cos we said no- its called democracy,hugm.
ryan is a great airline to work for. good pay great rosters, new a/c and great bunch of people on the line. i wouldnt swop with any. admitedly not all perfect, recent handling in stn was a mess but seems to hav been fixed, atc delays r a joke, and yes i agree that mol causes too much trouble with his big gob, but as long as my planes and my pockets r full i'll live with him rather than any other. b.a,branson,bmi etc have all dumped people in recent months while mol (yes hug-m bealzebub himself) is recruiting.
its generally believed that he stuffed boeing for 100 new a/c over the next 10 years or so,(hoe many did your lot buy?). so hug-m we're ok for moment and as long as it stays that way 'the lads' will be able to buy u plenty of pints as well as spin u loads and loads of fairy stories.
so u dont work here, but r an fr expert cos u drink with 'the lads'.
better still ur 'contacts' go way beyond drinks with lads- to what?
maybe drinks with 'the girls'? possibly lunch with mol? maybe u are even one of the ryans come back to this world as a prof pilot?
let me say again as an fr pilot- your prev posts were rubbish. typical of bar talk which is as close to 'fact' as u come.heres ur answers (since 'the lads' havnt given u any)
rosters r published 28 days in adv to allow for reqs,leave,s/bys,training,etc. things that prof pilots hav to do, but presumably u and the lads dont. other than this i can plot my earlies-off-lates-off for the next 2,4,6, months as i wish. ask ur impecable sources among the lads its v simple to follow.
nobody exceeded the ftls cos c. pilot confirmed in writing with agree of iaa on friday to this effect.to quote 'both parties confirmed that neither fr nor its pilots hav breached curr ftls'.
i admit i dont know abt 'further saefguards' but above line is good enough for me, and nails u 'experts' claim to contrary.
pay rise and share options and a1 rosters are v relevant in responding to the bizarre anti-ryan bias of this and many other posts on pprune. theyre called facts hug-m. u should try some.
on recruitment i know fm h.o.t that fr policy is to recruit and train slightly more fo/so's to allow for small no of fo/so's who dont meet our standard. adds up to me, check with 'the lads'
if u think 18 years without an accident isnt good try 18 years with one. a lot of rubbish passes thru pprune on subject of fr and low fares airlines safety, yet their record in europe is excellent and southwest is outstanding- or maybe hug-m and the lads think were just lucky.
im not proud of turnin down balpa but our lads did a better deal with the devil incarnate (thats mol hug-m) than anything done by balpa with b.a or easy. ill happily sign for balpa when they can show they do better. what i dont like is balpa jumpin on the anti ryan bandwagon just cos we said no- its called democracy,hugm.
ryan is a great airline to work for. good pay great rosters, new a/c and great bunch of people on the line. i wouldnt swop with any. admitedly not all perfect, recent handling in stn was a mess but seems to hav been fixed, atc delays r a joke, and yes i agree that mol causes too much trouble with his big gob, but as long as my planes and my pockets r full i'll live with him rather than any other. b.a,branson,bmi etc have all dumped people in recent months while mol (yes hug-m bealzebub himself) is recruiting.
its generally believed that he stuffed boeing for 100 new a/c over the next 10 years or so,(hoe many did your lot buy?). so hug-m we're ok for moment and as long as it stays that way 'the lads' will be able to buy u plenty of pints as well as spin u loads and loads of fairy stories.
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Hey LOVE2FLY,
could you send me your email adress? I have some questions
concerning Ryanair. It seems like ig I´m going to write them down here I won´t get a serious answer.... :-C
MSA
[email protected]
could you send me your email adress? I have some questions
concerning Ryanair. It seems like ig I´m going to write them down here I won´t get a serious answer.... :-C
MSA
[email protected]
Jolly Green Giant
Join Date: May 1999
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Huggy, a few of us would like to welcome you down from your ivory tower....
The overiding goal of any business is to maximise profits.
Any you're right, I fu**ing love money!!!!!!!!
But I'm certainly not humble enough or derserving of your pious sympathy or jugements. All opinions are welcome on PPRuNe I believe, capatalist or communist.
The overiding goal of any business is to maximise profits.
Any you're right, I fu**ing love money!!!!!!!!
But I'm certainly not humble enough or derserving of your pious sympathy or jugements. All opinions are welcome on PPRuNe I believe, capatalist or communist.
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Iluv2Fly
i can only assume one of two things; you are either a new pilot with Ryanair in which case you need to wake up and smell the coffee , or you are a manager in which case you should stop your propaganda. Everyone knows that people are flying more than 900 hours a year and the IAA won't do anything about it. It is ALL down to money. Ryanair would have to employ more pilots and pay them salaries if everyone was out of hours, as they are and this wouldn't fit with the perfect economic model of MOL. He's laughing about this whole affair, he thrives on stuff like this.
The real trouble is that the IAA are not prepared to do anything about this situation. Untill they do nothing will change. Sector cheques will remain the same as they were years ago , the only difference is that you are having to work 20 or 30 % more for the same money - great Deal !!
i can only assume one of two things; you are either a new pilot with Ryanair in which case you need to wake up and smell the coffee , or you are a manager in which case you should stop your propaganda. Everyone knows that people are flying more than 900 hours a year and the IAA won't do anything about it. It is ALL down to money. Ryanair would have to employ more pilots and pay them salaries if everyone was out of hours, as they are and this wouldn't fit with the perfect economic model of MOL. He's laughing about this whole affair, he thrives on stuff like this.
The real trouble is that the IAA are not prepared to do anything about this situation. Untill they do nothing will change. Sector cheques will remain the same as they were years ago , the only difference is that you are having to work 20 or 30 % more for the same money - great Deal !!
Join Date: Sep 1999
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ILUV, brownstar says most of it. And I suggest you check your sums. Something in there might not quite add up...?
1W22 - If money is all you want, then that's all you'll get. If you feel that caring about human beings, that not screwing them for all the dosh you can get out of them, that wanting to provide a service for a reasonable profit rather than making all the money you can is something to sneer at as being "pious" then I feel more sorry for you than I can say.
1W22 - If money is all you want, then that's all you'll get. If you feel that caring about human beings, that not screwing them for all the dosh you can get out of them, that wanting to provide a service for a reasonable profit rather than making all the money you can is something to sneer at as being "pious" then I feel more sorry for you than I can say.