MH17 down near Donetsk

[SAMPUBLIUS]

re cockpit photos captain side

for those who are wondering how evyjet noticed the difference

BOEING 777 COCKPIT

A major clue is the two red switch guards visible in the boeing photo and the posted photo- unique to the captain side.

IMO pretty well proves the missile was on the port side ..

[skridlov]

Malaysian Airlines rebranding?

From today's FT.
Malaysia Airlines considers rebranding - FT.com

[vpgeek]

Photo collection of parts found

Started couple days ago collecting together all the various photos of identifiable parts out there to build a better overall picture what's out there. Would appreciate feedback especially if something's obviously wrong. I'll continue updating this as long as there's something identifiable that pops up in the photos from the crash sites.

https://storify.com/vpkivimaki/mh17-hull-parts

[mickjoebill]

What time was contact lost?

Malaysia Airlines first press release stated contact was lost at 14:15 (GMT).
Media Statement 1: MH17 Incident

Malaysia Airlines confirms it received notification from Ukrainian ATC that it had lost contact with flight MH17 at 1415 (GMT) at 30km from Tamak waypoint, approximately 50km from the Russia-Ukraine border.

But flight radar websites reveal MH17 took off at 10:15 UTC and contact was lost at around 13:15 UTC. (GMT)

This wrong timing has been and continues to be quoted thousands of times in reports and articles.
Part of the reason the problem persists could be that many in the UK think that GMT is always local UK time even in summer when it is not and should be termed BST.

It is an example of how quickly crap-facts can be spread around the world and then persist without correction.

Those who are keen to rush to judgement based on early reports of such incidents, take note, have you got your basic facts straight?

[Lena.Kiev]

The last line/position in flightradar data is fictitious (apparently extrapolated).

[lomapaseo]

"Would appreciate feedback especially if something's obviously wrong."

No doubt lots of viewers like to comment on wreckage on an open forum

This stuff is timid and harmless compared to the unedited links that popped up recently in this thread.

Your stuff so far saves me the trouble of searching through tons of images most of which are useless to investigations. At least your collation has some science behind it addressing typical questions.

[Sober Lark]

Points well made both of you and you too Mod

[KatSLF]

piece of engine?

Can this be a little bit of engine?? from the Tail Field of debris. Solid cast-looking metal.

edge-on view
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jer...57645908125941
top side
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jer...57645908125941
turned over, bottom view
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jer...57645908125941

I'm thinking, port engine would have ingested a fair bit of shrapnel (and not survived in one piece).

[SAMPUBLIUS]

Map of debris on WSJ

Map of a Tragedy: How MH17 Came Apart Over Ukraine - WSJ.com

about as good as you will find at this time

[KatSLF]

First picture I've seen of an "engine pod part".

ypgeek's link identifies a part as forward cargo which Sampublius's link says is roof over cockpit. Hard to say - it does look like it used to be white, which means upper section (lower half is painted grey) BUT the identification as cargo bay is based on part numbers visible on the back.

https://storify.com/vpkivimaki/mh17-hull-parts

Either way, obvious from the location it's a front part. Looking at the back, part of it has no shrapnel holes at all. That looks like it curled up instantly from the decompression, so the front parts protected the back section.

[KatSLF]

"missile o-ring"

Some pages back someone was looking for the photo of a green o-ring they thought might be part of the missile.

https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jer...57645790319631

It was in the Tail debris field.

[Mudman]

Parts

Not sure if this is helpful, however here is a quick photoshop of some parts in relation to each other....

[lomapaseo]

piece of engine?
Can this be a little bit of engine?? from the Tail Field of debris. Solid cast-looking metal.

edge-on view
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jer...57645908125941
top side
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jer...57645908125941
turned over, bottom view
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jer...57645908125941

I'm thinking, port engine would have ingested a fair bit of shrapnel (and not survived in one piece).

Looks like forged Titanium bonded as two halves of a fan blade. Certainly badly overstressed.

Considering the separated bits of the front of an engine in earlier pictures at the crash site, this piece was likely found at the crash site and due to the crash itself.

Anything else this small if departed at altitude, would just be well scattered flotsam and jetsam among all the war debris in that part of the country.

disclaimer: it's had to get interested in minute details if one accepts a missile strike as the cause.

[OleOle]

This image is crawling through the net. Direction of the green line would be interesting to know.



The read dots represent the skid marks on the wingtip.

[Capn Bloggs]

That would the Captain's field of view on the 777-9 with the fold-up wingtips...

[Heli-phile]

Not engine attachment

@KatSLF

The item shown and described as 'engine support' is something else. Both engines were still attached to the wing and spar at impact. Looked more like a fuselage to spar attachment section.

[RetiredF4]

SO inside the port engine is best place to look for shrapnel and/or parts of the actual missile itself.

I dont think so. The seeker head of the missile is semiactive homing, and it heads for the biggest radar return, which is not the engine.
To explain that a bit further, the head does not aim directly to the radar return, which would lead to a pure persuit intercept course, but the seeker gadgets compute a direct lead persuit intercept course. A head on shot against a non maneuvering big aircraft like a 777 will have most probably be a direct hit, although the proximity fuse would detonate the warhead just prior impact.
From the damage observed in the cockpit section i would guess this happened level to slightly high in the front left section.

Concerning this special piece of wreckage, which got my attention from the beginning, there could be another explanation. It could be part of an steering fin of the missile and its resting place would support this possibility.

[OleOle]

Originally Posted by Heli-phile

The item shown and described as 'engine support' is something else. Both engines were still attached to the wing and spar at impact. Looked more like a fuselage to spar attachment section.

That item was identified as such in the wsj mapping. It was found on the trajectory of the cockpit close to Right-Hand Door Two. I too suspect it's part of the fuselage.

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by Piltdown Man

Given that a worthwhile and proper investigation will require vast effort and expenditure, I wonder if the outcome will justify the resources invested?

That is the way of the modern world. Look at a simple case, boy stabs teacher in front of 30 witnesses and then confesses. Police carry out a though crime scene and case investigation in what is an open and shut case.

If the diagram shown by OleOle is correct it shows that it was an unlucky hit with the missile exploding too late and too far ahead from optimum.

Aside from the civil criminal investigation I believe many intelligence agencies and the missile manufacturer will also have an intense interest and not from humanitarian interests.

[radar0976]

Detailed debris field analysis from the Wall Street Journal

Map of a Tragedy: How MH17 Came Apart Over Ukraine - WSJ.com