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MH17 down near Donetsk

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MH17 down near Donetsk

Old 26th Jul 2014, 10:48
  #981 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Malaysia
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Paris Match

Few people seem to know about the Paris Match reconstruction. First a brief note about a piece of debris here: article.

Then a larger reconstruction with a map which looks quite similar in details to the map produced by one of the users here: Paris Match Piece, "Crash MH17" Google Map with photos by Paris Match

The Paris Match piece has been linked to before I believe. Their map contains a lot of photos that haven't been seen before (warning, many are very graphic). I will not link to them directly, but they can be found in the following folder:

...with names that can be found by looking at the html in Google Maps, for instance P1_001.jpg (early photo of main debris field), P5_001.jpg (debris), P9_043.jpg (business class seat, no shrapnel damage), P9_044.jpg (further pieces of small debris in wheat field), P9_046.jpg (business class seats and section of plane skin).

Many of the photos included in the Paris Match map are hitherto unseen. They may contain more pieces of debris away from the main site.
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 11:10
  #982 (permalink)  
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CloseUp Of Port Side Cockpit Floor Punctures


Freeze Frame @ 1:06

Trajectory of Shrapnel ?

Anyone see any possibility of second missile ?
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 12:13
  #983 (permalink)  
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There is some discussion ongoing concerning about the visible damage of the cockpit section and how that could be conclusive concerning the inbound path of the SAM and distance of explosion of the warhead or the type of warhead.

The following link has very good information about the BUK1 system and also pictures about the structure of the missile.

9K37/9K37M1/9K317 Buk M1/M2 / SA-11/17 Gadfly/Grizzly / C????????? ???????? ???????? ???????? 9?37/9?317 ??? ?/?1/?2

Few points I like to point out:
The diameter of the mxl without the winglets is about 40cm, with wings about 86 cm(later types 120cm), the length is 5,55 meters. Most uninformed people think the warhead being at the pointy end of the mxl, which is not the case. There the seeker head with the semiactive radar and all the electronics are located in a space of about 1 meter from the tip of the mxl to the warhead behind.The warhead is designed to explode to the forward and outside, thus not only fragmenting the warhead casing to the designed fragmentation pattern, but also the 1 meter long guidance unit in a random way. Therefore the damage pattern might not be consistent with what's expected from the warhead fragments alone.

The part after the warhead will be less effected from the warhead detonation and could therefore be found in identifiable proportions, especially the wings and the hull of the solid rocket propellant. The location to look for such items would be close to the cockpit section, where the explosion most probably was nearby. If somebody would like to trick with evidence, then the first task would be to search for such missile parts and get them out of the way.

There was one picture published where a greenish O-ring gasket like those seen in joints of missile sections could be seen. But it was hard to judge the diameter and i have no knowledge if such sized gaskets are used in the 777.

Last edited by RetiredF4; 28th Jul 2014 at 06:07.
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 12:20
  #984 (permalink)  
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maybe this

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Old 26th Jul 2014, 12:32
  #985 (permalink)  
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and this

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Old 26th Jul 2014, 13:43
  #986 (permalink)  
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In the video Wantion posted, I noticed the "rocket" portion of the missle continued on after the warhead detonation. As RetiredF4 noted, the warhead design would likely leave the rear portion of the missle somewhat intact. Which means besides the frag damage, there was also a catastrophic impact somewhere from a 40cm steel log going mach 4+. It is likely it passed through and out the other side.
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 14:59
  #987 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by mickjoebill View Post
As with the myopic hysteria about systematic looting, shots being fired at monitors, obstruction and disrespect for victims I've yet to see hard evidence of wreckage being removed.
There are now some interviews in mainstream news with families saying that victims' credit cards and phones are being used. True or not, they appear to be real interviews with real relatives. But, as you say, looting has happened before elsewhere and will happen again.

The site is now so well documented by video and photographs that I can't see any point in attempting wreckage removal.
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 15:08
  #988 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Quite the opposite today. The observers said that passports were found today that weren't there yesterday in that same location. Not sure if passports qualify as wreckage though.
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 16:15
  #989 (permalink)  
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Post It is true

Locked myself several civ planes with optics during training. Once the radar was on accidentially, but I switched off. Without countermeasures on our (TELAR) radar you see something similar (cone/sector), if you are under radar lock. Actually the optics and image processing capabilities were so good, that you can lock to a person also. Or a rabbit. Can not disclose range for that, classifed info. This was not BUK.
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 16:34
  #990 (permalink)  
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Driving back to Russia would be insane

BUK TELAR uses 600 kg/h of fuel, when operational. So there is reason to put it on trailer. Especially in areas with compromized maintenance capabilities.
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 17:20
  #991 (permalink)  
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Shear and tear

Just shear stress on the same line with rivets. This is the intact side and the other side of panel most likely peeled off or taken explosive/implosive forces (no way this could of just pulled apart).
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 09:18
  #992 (permalink)  
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Mudman . . .

seems to show an fragment penetration from the inside out.
A fragment can enter one side of the fuselage and easily exit another. A photo as such by itself would not necessarily suggest a blast originating from the inside.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 09:40
  #993 (permalink)  
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First details from black box

First details from black box leaked? by investigators?

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 black box findings consistent with blast - CBS News
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 10:31
  #994 (permalink)  
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On ground Al-Jazeera reporter tweets about armed Ukrainian military moving towards crash site right now. https://twitter.com/nazaninemoshiri/...37851275116545
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 20:03
  #995 (permalink)  
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starboard window of flight deck ?

as evyjet notice below it's mirrored (http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../5/1941507.jpg)

Or probably the upper left corner of that window?

Last edited by OleOle; 28th Jul 2014 at 07:28. Reason: add image source
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 22:07
  #996 (permalink)  
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To Johnnik:

Yes, it would be interesting to know where and when this video was taken in Ukraine with active BUK radar. Actually Ukrainians must explain this. If there was a mistake, then such deployed systems would allow making mistakes.
But there are some problems with Ukrainian BUK's.
1. Why should Ukrainians shoot an aircraft that has flown through the whole Ukrainian territory and is about leaving Ukrainian airspace at flight level where Drones do not fly from direction that usually only friendly aircrafts come?
2. I doubt if Ukrainian Buks were physically able to shoot that aircraft down at that certain spot, deep in rebel territory. Buk wouldn't have that range for that height.

Instead of rebels whe removed their videos and postings, this particular video is still available. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3MomxNHnUA
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Old 28th Jul 2014, 02:40
  #997 (permalink)  
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OleOle... for what it's worth, the picture of the 777 flight deck photo is a mirror image. ie. that is the captains window. Not that it matter I suppose in the context, as the windows are the same. Just showing I am paying attention
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Old 28th Jul 2014, 03:42
  #998 (permalink)  
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re cockpit photos captain side

for those who are wondering how evyjet noticed the difference


A major clue is the two red switch guards visible in the boeing photo and the posted photo- unique to the captain side.

IMO pretty well proves the missile was on the port side ..
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Old 28th Jul 2014, 09:16
  #999 (permalink)  
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Malaysian Airlines rebranding?

From today's FT.
Malaysia Airlines considers rebranding - FT.com
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Old 28th Jul 2014, 18:44
  #1000 (permalink)  
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Photo collection of parts found

Started couple days ago collecting together all the various photos of identifiable parts out there to build a better overall picture what's out there. Would appreciate feedback especially if something's obviously wrong. I'll continue updating this as long as there's something identifiable that pops up in the photos from the crash sites.

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