Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
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The Imarsat statement merely mentions routine signals were received and it does not mention how many or for how long.
I seem to remember from early posts that one or possibly two such routine signals occurred at the normal expected times and positions. Receipt of thse two transmissions alone would fall within the statement above.
I seem to remember from early posts that one or possibly two such routine signals occurred at the normal expected times and positions. Receipt of thse two transmissions alone would fall within the statement above.
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It was a moonlit night so a change of course would be obvious from the half moon.
For the rest, how all this has been allowed to happen in 2014, I have not a single clue, like all of us.
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Rolls-Royce Statement - Rolls-Royce
IIRC that statement by the Transport Minister was, only two engine datasets were received, the last one at TOC shortly before the transponder signal was lost. I don't remember any statements if those datasets were transmitted via VHF or SATCOM/Inmarsat.
IF they were transmitted by VHF (possible because close to land), then the Press Release by inmarsat could mean, that the "Routine Messages" were part of lower layer communication between transceiver and satellite. Obvious is that none of the protagonist is making an unambiguous statement.
Rolls-Royce Statement
Friday, 14 March 2014
Rolls-Royce continues to provide its full support to the authorities and Malaysia Airlines. Rolls-Royce concurs with the statement made on Thursday 13 March by Malaysia's Transport Minister, Hishammuddin Hussein regarding engine health monitoring data received from the aircraft.
Friday, 14 March 2014
Rolls-Royce continues to provide its full support to the authorities and Malaysia Airlines. Rolls-Royce concurs with the statement made on Thursday 13 March by Malaysia's Transport Minister, Hishammuddin Hussein regarding engine health monitoring data received from the aircraft.
IF they were transmitted by VHF (possible because close to land), then the Press Release by inmarsat could mean, that the "Routine Messages" were part of lower layer communication between transceiver and satellite. Obvious is that none of the protagonist is making an unambiguous statement.
Last edited by OleOle; 14th Mar 2014 at 18:48.
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Back to the basics...
I have noticed differing posting of the last 10 or so flight data points. The original postings in the early days of this event display the last 2 updates with a flight level of zero(0). The recent postings and news reports I've seen in the media seems to fill in those two values with the same 35,000ft as the rest of the 10 updates rather than the original reports of zero.
This maybe a key oversight. And why so many "experts" are focusing on other areas. I believe the last two reports of zero for altitude along with a constant reading for air speed may provide insight.
1. Is the SPEED input to the TRANSPONDER from a PITOT tube based system or another source, say GPS?
2. If it is PITOT tube based, does it share any sub-system component with the PITOT tube based system providing the ALTIMETER input to the transponder?
3. Once that is established a look at relative placement of the two pitot tubes, common power bus connections to the different/same modules, etc. could be analyzed.
4. Many failure possibilities for a perfectly functioning altimeter would produce erratic readings or at least none-zero reading. For an alt. that has ceased to work, the transponder or the system will fill in "zero's" in the data packet.
The fact that the transponder is instantaneously reporting zero while the a/c is 7 miles high in the sky is a key piece of information. The lack of radio reports while the transponder is still working would indicate an in-cabin event which precluded a radio report. Then over a three minute period the transponder ceases reports all together.
It looks like this geographical area is where transponder updates become sketchy as some historic tracks lose data up to a point just short of reaching the Vietnam coast.
All of this points to a rapidly deteriorating electrical system in the aircraft.
The oil rig observation is interesting. The observer is over 300 nm away but it is a dark, cloudless night. His observation of a burning plane would be down near the horizon. But his comment that, from his vantage point, he could percieve no lateral motion lends credibility to his report as we know the plane had just turned more in his direction, head on along with the indication that the event took place much further away than it appears.
If one of those US destroyers in the area is ASW equipped they should run their towed array sonar along 060 to 075 from LKP. The idea it was still in the air for 4 hrs lacks any published data... same as the "military radar" theory. Lets see some data.
This maybe a key oversight. And why so many "experts" are focusing on other areas. I believe the last two reports of zero for altitude along with a constant reading for air speed may provide insight.
1. Is the SPEED input to the TRANSPONDER from a PITOT tube based system or another source, say GPS?
2. If it is PITOT tube based, does it share any sub-system component with the PITOT tube based system providing the ALTIMETER input to the transponder?
3. Once that is established a look at relative placement of the two pitot tubes, common power bus connections to the different/same modules, etc. could be analyzed.
4. Many failure possibilities for a perfectly functioning altimeter would produce erratic readings or at least none-zero reading. For an alt. that has ceased to work, the transponder or the system will fill in "zero's" in the data packet.
The fact that the transponder is instantaneously reporting zero while the a/c is 7 miles high in the sky is a key piece of information. The lack of radio reports while the transponder is still working would indicate an in-cabin event which precluded a radio report. Then over a three minute period the transponder ceases reports all together.
It looks like this geographical area is where transponder updates become sketchy as some historic tracks lose data up to a point just short of reaching the Vietnam coast.
All of this points to a rapidly deteriorating electrical system in the aircraft.
The oil rig observation is interesting. The observer is over 300 nm away but it is a dark, cloudless night. His observation of a burning plane would be down near the horizon. But his comment that, from his vantage point, he could percieve no lateral motion lends credibility to his report as we know the plane had just turned more in his direction, head on along with the indication that the event took place much further away than it appears.
If one of those US destroyers in the area is ASW equipped they should run their towed array sonar along 060 to 075 from LKP. The idea it was still in the air for 4 hrs lacks any published data... same as the "military radar" theory. Lets see some data.
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Inmarsat
From: BBC News - Lost Malaysia plane 'may have flown on for five hours'
'However, the BBC understands that a satellite system operated by London-based telecommunications company Inmarsat received an automated signal from flight MH370 at least five hours after the plane was reported lost.'
have the bbc managed to get inside information from inmarsat?
'However, the BBC understands that a satellite system operated by London-based telecommunications company Inmarsat received an automated signal from flight MH370 at least five hours after the plane was reported lost.'
have the bbc managed to get inside information from inmarsat?
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The Chinese appear to have other resources to confirm the impact.
Last edited by porterhouse; 14th Mar 2014 at 19:04.
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Possibly, provided the satellite terminal still had power and the antenna was pointed in approximately the right direction. I could imagine that being true for a while after ditching, but it seems unlikely in a crash.
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Airspeed and pressure altitude both come from the air data box. Would be 429 data between the air data and instruments and transponders.
Mode S sends altitude out 2 different ways the mode C reply in 100' increments and in mode S in 25' increments. If they agree ( say 35,000 and 35,025) the reply is considered valid. If they disagree ( 35,000 and 31,475) the reply is invalid.
Mode S sends altitude out 2 different ways the mode C reply in 100' increments and in mode S in 25' increments. If they agree ( say 35,000 and 35,025) the reply is considered valid. If they disagree ( 35,000 and 31,475) the reply is invalid.
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At this rate, passengers will soon be required to switch their phones ON during flight, and de-select Flight Mode
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It was a moonlit night so a change of course would be obvious from the half moon.
Last edited by djlynch; 14th Mar 2014 at 18:57. Reason: Fixing quote tag
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CaptainJim
Pitot tubes do not feed altimiters.
Pitot tubes always feed separate systems. That is why you have more than one.
Towed array sonar does not do what you think it does.
Aside from that, sounds like you know what you are talking about, Captain....
Pitot tubes do not feed altimiters.
Pitot tubes always feed separate systems. That is why you have more than one.
Towed array sonar does not do what you think it does.
Aside from that, sounds like you know what you are talking about, Captain....
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Cabin crew.
Whilst we may consider the actions and motives of the flight crew, what about the cabin crew - have they been considered.
I'm cabin crew, with a ppl, and an interest in aviation. I know the basics of flight. I believe I would be capable of altering the auto pilot coordinates. I'm certain that I could not land a B777 without considerable training. Maybe one of the crew thought they could?
Importantly, as a third party hijacker, I know exactly how to enter the flight deck and would my request would not raise any suspicion. Particularly if I'm equipped with two cups of tea at the top of climb.
Just, another, thought
I'm cabin crew, with a ppl, and an interest in aviation. I know the basics of flight. I believe I would be capable of altering the auto pilot coordinates. I'm certain that I could not land a B777 without considerable training. Maybe one of the crew thought they could?
Importantly, as a third party hijacker, I know exactly how to enter the flight deck and would my request would not raise any suspicion. Particularly if I'm equipped with two cups of tea at the top of climb.
Just, another, thought
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Further to the moon set times etc, most passengers are not aware of any of that, far less the flight plan route. A turn is just that, a turn on a route, and they do not question it. Turns happen when you are holding, even on airways at higher than normal holding altitudes.