Ryanair secrets?
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The reason, I would imagine, is that it's an important -- and deeply disturbing --development in its own right, and deserves more attention than being buried in page 10 of an existing thread.
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Do FR crews depart with less fuel than what the plog states ? Just curious because if they didn't, there would be no need to declare "mayday" due to lack of fuel unless there was a fuel tank/pump malfunction or the crew were holding for more time than company SOP etc.
In my day, it was common practice to take more fuel than what the plog stated, not less or the exact amount.
In my day, it was common practice to take more fuel than what the plog stated, not less or the exact amount.
Do FR crews depart with less fuel than what the plog states ? Just curious because if they didn't, there would be no need to declare "mayday" due to lack of fuel unless there was a fuel tank/pump malfunction or the crew were holding for more time than company SOP etc.
In my day, it was common practice to take more fuel than what the plog stated, not less or the exact amount.
In my day, it was common practice to take more fuel than what the plog stated, not less or the exact amount.
Mach 3
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At your local school, it is possible this might happen:
Families are torn apart, but others are free to kill - Telegraph
But when hundreds of pilots indicate they have serious reservations about the safety culture at an airline that carries 70 million passengers around Europe, "nobody" wants to know....
Try and get your head around that.
Families are torn apart, but others are free to kill - Telegraph
But when hundreds of pilots indicate they have serious reservations about the safety culture at an airline that carries 70 million passengers around Europe, "nobody" wants to know....
Try and get your head around that.
Why is it 'deeply disturbing'?
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How many airlines are supervised by the Irish authority? The dual role of promoting Irish airlines as well as investigating any shortcomings would imply a cosy relationship...
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appalling
I have never posted anything on this site, an ex-airline employee, I do not know enough to post comments or thoughts about an issue, but enjoy reading them. But Ryanair's sacking of this pilot was the last straw. Absolutely appalling...they're disgusting, I'm surprised anybody works for them. Its time workers found a strategy to fight back against this nasty bully O'Leary. Why oh why didn't the chief pilot just stay anonymous? Anonymity would have only reduced the punch of the argument only slightly, but at least he would not have been victimised like this.
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I cant help thinking the dispatches programme missed a vital point. If true as stated the aircraft involved in the Valencia diversion were as all fuelled according to the legal requirements then the issue they should have addressed isn't about a specific airline but about the JAR fuel policy applying to all airlines.
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Regarding John Goss (well done to him by the way!), let's assume:
- his pension pot is his business, and nothing to do with Ryanair.
- he may well walk off into the sunset untroubled by any unfair dismissal case as he only had 2 months to go.
- Channel 4 probably has tried and failed in the past to get any one working RYR pilot to publically speak about their concerns.
- As a previous poster points out him speaking up now and getting dismissed lends him a lot more credibility than making some noise from the safety of retirement.
Personally I think Mr.Goss has played an absolute blinder: perfect timing for him and solid execution. This is one sh!tstorm Ryanair cannot spin into good publicity!
Well done sir.
- his pension pot is his business, and nothing to do with Ryanair.
- he may well walk off into the sunset untroubled by any unfair dismissal case as he only had 2 months to go.
- Channel 4 probably has tried and failed in the past to get any one working RYR pilot to publically speak about their concerns.
- As a previous poster points out him speaking up now and getting dismissed lends him a lot more credibility than making some noise from the safety of retirement.
Personally I think Mr.Goss has played an absolute blinder: perfect timing for him and solid execution. This is one sh!tstorm Ryanair cannot spin into good publicity!
Well done sir.
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I do not know enough to post comments or thoughts about an issue, but enjoy reading them. But Ryanair's sacking of this pilot was the last straw. Absolutely appalling...they're disgusting, I'm surprised anybody works for them. Its time workers found a strategy to fight back against this nasty bully O'Leary. Why oh why didn't the chief pilot just stay anonymous? Anonymity would have only reduced the punch of the argument only slightly, but at least he would not have been victimised like this.
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Why "deeply disturbing"?
Dave Reid & Mary Meagher:-
Precisely so. Until this morning I hadn't put too much stock in claims of an excessively cozy relationship between the IAA and FR. I can't say the same now. There was nothing in that IAA statement that couldn't have come directly from FR's PR department. And the fact that the Authority finds FR's summary dismissal of a whistleblower, followed immediately by its announcement of an intent to sue that whistleblower in his personal capacity for damages, unworthy even of comment is little short of stupefying.
No doubt FR will quietly scuttle back from its threatened legal action, as it has done so many times in the past. I'm sure its Chief Executive has no desire to see his internal files on safety matters, etc., being dragged into open court.
Nevertheless, as I've said previously, the FR board is gambling its entire operation on the airline never having a fatal accident attributable to human factors. If it ever should, the plaintiffs' legal counsel will make hay over actions like this. And the jury will very likely respond by awarding the airline -- lock, stock and barrel -- to the plaintiffs.
Unless the Chief Executive is planning on spending his golden years in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, moreover, he ought to bear in mind that should such an eventuality arise, there is nothing in British tort law stating that Capt. Goss is the only person who can be sued in his personal capacity.
Precisely so. Until this morning I hadn't put too much stock in claims of an excessively cozy relationship between the IAA and FR. I can't say the same now. There was nothing in that IAA statement that couldn't have come directly from FR's PR department. And the fact that the Authority finds FR's summary dismissal of a whistleblower, followed immediately by its announcement of an intent to sue that whistleblower in his personal capacity for damages, unworthy even of comment is little short of stupefying.
No doubt FR will quietly scuttle back from its threatened legal action, as it has done so many times in the past. I'm sure its Chief Executive has no desire to see his internal files on safety matters, etc., being dragged into open court.
Nevertheless, as I've said previously, the FR board is gambling its entire operation on the airline never having a fatal accident attributable to human factors. If it ever should, the plaintiffs' legal counsel will make hay over actions like this. And the jury will very likely respond by awarding the airline -- lock, stock and barrel -- to the plaintiffs.
Unless the Chief Executive is planning on spending his golden years in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, moreover, he ought to bear in mind that should such an eventuality arise, there is nothing in British tort law stating that Capt. Goss is the only person who can be sued in his personal capacity.
Last edited by Blind Squirrel; 16th Aug 2013 at 09:40. Reason: Edited for typographical error in para. 2: "matteres" instead of "matters."
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"They clearly have channels to talk to management cos theyre not forced to go on TV anonymously to complain.." Seyri Rhodes Aug 13
" I doubt I could get 1000 pilots from any other airline to say what RA pilots are saying voluntarily" Seyri Rhodes Aug 13
They surveyed themselves to prove theres a problem and then went to their friends in Channel 4. Seyri Rhodes / Channel 4 apparently used a this windfall of single source reporting, produced by anonymous, unverified information that they only made the barest of attempts to verify but decided to present it in a way that the public could only conclude it is unsafe to fly with Ryanair. Is this investigative journalism?
" I doubt I could get 1000 pilots from any other airline to say what RA pilots are saying voluntarily" Seyri Rhodes Aug 13
They surveyed themselves to prove theres a problem and then went to their friends in Channel 4. Seyri Rhodes / Channel 4 apparently used a this windfall of single source reporting, produced by anonymous, unverified information that they only made the barest of attempts to verify but decided to present it in a way that the public could only conclude it is unsafe to fly with Ryanair. Is this investigative journalism?
Last edited by Sober Lark; 16th Aug 2013 at 09:54. Reason: When I enter Twitter as source in submission the printed version reads pprune!
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Nevertheless, as I've said previously, the FR board is gambling its entire operation on the airline never having a fatal accident attributable to human factors.
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Ayroplain -- you might want to read the sentence that immediately follows the one you've quoted. Firing whistleblowers who express concerns about airline safety; publicly threatening to dismiss others who do likewise; attempting to use the courts to silence those who speak out about safety matters (a tactic that is illegal in most of the United States -- see, e.g., the California SLAPP statute) -- these are not typically the ways of persuading a jury that one's airline has a robust safety culture in place. Nor, to my knowledge, are they methods previously employed by the chief executives of British Airways, Air France, or the other airline you mentioned.
Last edited by Blind Squirrel; 16th Aug 2013 at 10:23.
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Never flew Ryan as a passenger, though plenty of my friends and family have done so without problems. There is no doubt they provide a good service and "Cheap Flights" I also appreciate that my friends and family are flying on sound aircraft, relatively new and hopefully well maintained.
But how unwise it is ever to trust a television program that it will not distort the message you had hoped to convey and present instead a shocking and newsworthy angle that might be less than fair.
However, O'Leary's reaction, though predictable, hasn't won him any friends.
But how unwise it is ever to trust a television program that it will not distort the message you had hoped to convey and present instead a shocking and newsworthy angle that might be less than fair.
However, O'Leary's reaction, though predictable, hasn't won him any friends.
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the FR board is gambling its entire operation on the airline never having a fatal accident attributable to human factors.
Regardless of whether many questionable aspects of RYR's operations are legal or not, what is becoming evident is that many of them border on the very edge of what is permissible (note permissible, not acceptable) and that in itself puts the airline closer to an accident than another which builds margins into their operations.
An 'outstanding' safety record can become an 'appalling' one overnight and once that happens, all bets are off. The mantra 'no one cares as long as they get cheap flights' suddenly loses its currency and serious questions are then asked about how things are run at RYR.
And this time serious answers will be expected.
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FR's Chief Executive would also have done well to have considered the Streisand Effect. Had Capt. Goss been as rich as Croesus, he couldn't have bought the kind of public attention to his concerns that FR has generously secured for him.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/16/bu...n-tv.html?_r=0
Ryanair Fires Pilot After TV Show Probes Safety Culture - Bloomberg
Ryanair licencie un pilote qui a mis en cause la sécurité
Ryanair fires pilot for TV interview on safety concerns | Business | DW.DE | 15.08.2013
Ryanair despide a un piloto que cuestionó la seguridad de la aerolínea | Economía | elmundo.es
Ryanair fires pilot over safety claims | Bangkok Post: news
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/16/bu...n-tv.html?_r=0
PARIS — Ryanair, the Dublin-based budget airline, confirmed Thursday that it had fired one of its most senior pilots and was pursuing legal action against him after the pilot raised safety questions about the airline’s fuel policy in a British television interview.
The move was the latest response by Ryanair, Europe’s largest airline by passengers, to recent accusations from some of its pilots that the airline occasionally skirts certain European safety regulations and discourages employees from reporting their concerns.
The move was the latest response by Ryanair, Europe’s largest airline by passengers, to recent accusations from some of its pilots that the airline occasionally skirts certain European safety regulations and discourages employees from reporting their concerns.
Ryanair licencie un pilote qui a mis en cause la sécurité
Ryanair fires pilot for TV interview on safety concerns | Business | DW.DE | 15.08.2013
Ryanair despide a un piloto que cuestionó la seguridad de la aerolínea | Economía | elmundo.es
Ryanair fires pilot over safety claims | Bangkok Post: news
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The question after all this discussion remains - can the IAA afford to dismiss the survey of these pilots. Can they really assume that so many people, not an inconsiderable number by any means, would voice concerns that there is a problem and the IAA stick to the line that there is no problem.
They may not like what they are hearing but failure to act on this would be an error, in my opinion.
Surely someone in government must be interested in investigating why so many employees of one company seem to be voicing concerns.
They may not like what they are hearing but failure to act on this would be an error, in my opinion.
Surely someone in government must be interested in investigating why so many employees of one company seem to be voicing concerns.