Ryanair secrets?
This article appeared here in the English language newspaper, Connexion.
Monsieur Cuvillier seems to have a lot to say about LoCo Ryanair, whose safety record is very good, but is silent on that of CherCo Air France, whose record is 
I know who I would rather fly with.
RYANAIR has been asked by French Transport Minister Frédéric Cuvillier to clarify pilots’ allegations of security failings just a day after the budget airline sacked one of the pilots concerned.
The minister has asked the Direction Générale de l'Aviation Civile to speak to its Irish counterparts, who oversee the safety of Ryanair’s flights, to investigate the truth of the claims.
He said that air regulations meant Ryanair was a safe company but added in a statement: “Such practices, if they were confirmed, would be of great concern and reveal a violation of the regulations.”
Pilot John Goss said in a Channel 4 TV programme Secrets from the Cockpit, that pilots were wary of revealing safety concerns while other anonymous pilots raised concerns about the airline's fuel policy.
Mr Goss, who has been a pilot with Ryanair for 26 years, was sacked for making “defamatory” comments on the airline’s attitude to safety. The company said it would not allow an “employee to defame our safety on national television just three weeks after he confirmed in writing to Ryanair that he had no concerns with safety”.
Ryanair defended its 29-year safety record and said: “Both Ryanair and the Irish Aviation Authority operate confidential safety reporting systems which allow any Ryanair pilot with any legitimate safety concerns to report these in complete confidentiality – without any fear of reprisal – either through Ryanair’s confidential system or the IAA’s independent and confidential system.”
Unofficial pilots’ union Ryanair Pilots Group criticised the company saying Ryanair had promised to legally protect pilots who took part in the Channel 4 programme, but added: “The pilot who freely identified himself on the programme, and spoke about the general lack of confidence by pilots in the broader regulatory system, has suffered instant dismissal.
“It is simply extraordinary that the immediate reaction of Ryanair to safety issues brought to their attention is to deny the existence of any problems and to effectively shoot the messenger.”
Earlier this summer French publisher Altipresse released a book by a Ryanair pilot accusing the company of putting passenger safety in danger. The pilot, writing under a pseudonym, said in Ryanair - Low cost mais ŕ quel prix? / Ryanair – Low cost but at what price? that Ryanair is flying too close to safety limits.
The minister has asked the Direction Générale de l'Aviation Civile to speak to its Irish counterparts, who oversee the safety of Ryanair’s flights, to investigate the truth of the claims.
He said that air regulations meant Ryanair was a safe company but added in a statement: “Such practices, if they were confirmed, would be of great concern and reveal a violation of the regulations.”
Pilot John Goss said in a Channel 4 TV programme Secrets from the Cockpit, that pilots were wary of revealing safety concerns while other anonymous pilots raised concerns about the airline's fuel policy.
Mr Goss, who has been a pilot with Ryanair for 26 years, was sacked for making “defamatory” comments on the airline’s attitude to safety. The company said it would not allow an “employee to defame our safety on national television just three weeks after he confirmed in writing to Ryanair that he had no concerns with safety”.
Ryanair defended its 29-year safety record and said: “Both Ryanair and the Irish Aviation Authority operate confidential safety reporting systems which allow any Ryanair pilot with any legitimate safety concerns to report these in complete confidentiality – without any fear of reprisal – either through Ryanair’s confidential system or the IAA’s independent and confidential system.”
Unofficial pilots’ union Ryanair Pilots Group criticised the company saying Ryanair had promised to legally protect pilots who took part in the Channel 4 programme, but added: “The pilot who freely identified himself on the programme, and spoke about the general lack of confidence by pilots in the broader regulatory system, has suffered instant dismissal.
“It is simply extraordinary that the immediate reaction of Ryanair to safety issues brought to their attention is to deny the existence of any problems and to effectively shoot the messenger.”
Earlier this summer French publisher Altipresse released a book by a Ryanair pilot accusing the company of putting passenger safety in danger. The pilot, writing under a pseudonym, said in Ryanair - Low cost mais ŕ quel prix? / Ryanair – Low cost but at what price? that Ryanair is flying too close to safety limits.
I know who I would rather fly with.
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Ayro
Please don't believe everything you read in the press or FR press releases. The particular strike you allude to, never actually occurred and they most certainly did not hire in FR aircraft. That was MOL jumping on the bandwagon for some cheap publicity.
Now there's a surprise!
He even hired in FR aircraft to fill the void
Now there's a surprise!
Last edited by Epsomdog; 17th Aug 2013 at 06:22.
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Originally Posted by Epsomdog
Please don't believe everything you read in the press or FR press releases. The particular strike you allude to, never actually occurred and they most certainly did not hire in FR aircraft. That was MOL jumping on the bandwagon for some cheap publicity.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attac...3&d=1296226331
They hired in from Monarch as well. I await your apology and one to MOL as well
.
Last edited by ayroplain; 17th Aug 2013 at 21:21.
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A Swedish newspaper has reported allegations that RYR had removed information from data recorders. It seems an extraordinary allegation for sure. Even if it was "not necessary" to save the recordings, why would you want to remove anything that could even have a minute chance of explaining an issue? (Naive I know, but...)
Ryanair raderade information ur svarta lĺdan - Nyköping - www.sn.se
Google translate:
NYKÖPING Audio recording from a Ryanair plane that made an emergency landing at Skavsta just over two years ago were erased from the so-called black box. Someone in the company made sure that recording as pilots rescued at landing never reached the responsible investigators.
Ryanair: "Not necessary to save the recording"
It was on April 25, two years ago as Ryanair plane, a Boeing 737 with 179 people on board, got an emergency landing at Skavsta Airport. The plane took off from Skavsta on the way to Paris Beauvais and got several alarms on faults board and forced to return to the airport. Now SN reveal that the audio recording from the cockpit that will be available for accident investigators deleted by Ryanair. The data also confirmed by the Investigation.
- When the captain would land, he pulled out the fuse to the man in general refers to the black-box, Cockpit Voice Recorder, to save the audio recording of what was said in the cockpit, according to a source from within the company to SN. The source, who for fear of reprisals wishes to remain anonymous, says that the inquiry would then be had the saved recording disappeared.
- It was deleted by Ryanair and no one wants to say when or by whom. It is clear that it should not go to, the recording is supposed to be maintained in order to ensure what has happened during the trip, said the source.
In the inquiry conducted by the event, it appears that the data from both the voice recording from the cockpit as the tachograph, Flight Data Recorder, was deleted. Inquiry was instead based primarily on interviews with pilots and Stefan Christensen of The Board, in charge of the investigation and wrote the report, saying it still went well - this time.
- This time it went well but the recordings but another time perhaps it is not so. Then it's unfortunate if data gets lost on the way.
Someone in Ryanair's organization has printed off the fuse for voice recording, after the plane landed. Recording records the last two hours of conversation in the cockpit, then it starts over again and the previously recorded material is erased. Who tampered with the audio recording, and why has neither the Investigation or Ryanair pilots learned.
- If it is so that we as investigative organization requires recording so we have the right to take part of it, but in this case, the company has put it out of use. If there is a decision made at the management of Ryanair or whether it is an individual technician who acted, we never got clarity, only the pilots had done right and saved the information. Often the plane off afterwards and then wants you might not have the standing for several days pending investigation says Stefan Christensen.
But in this case, was the plane standing at Skavsta anyway.
- Yes, that means really think that the recording should have been left behind, says Stefan Christensen.
Ryanair raderade information ur svarta lĺdan - Nyköping - www.sn.se
Google translate:
NYKÖPING Audio recording from a Ryanair plane that made an emergency landing at Skavsta just over two years ago were erased from the so-called black box. Someone in the company made sure that recording as pilots rescued at landing never reached the responsible investigators.
Ryanair: "Not necessary to save the recording"
It was on April 25, two years ago as Ryanair plane, a Boeing 737 with 179 people on board, got an emergency landing at Skavsta Airport. The plane took off from Skavsta on the way to Paris Beauvais and got several alarms on faults board and forced to return to the airport. Now SN reveal that the audio recording from the cockpit that will be available for accident investigators deleted by Ryanair. The data also confirmed by the Investigation.
- When the captain would land, he pulled out the fuse to the man in general refers to the black-box, Cockpit Voice Recorder, to save the audio recording of what was said in the cockpit, according to a source from within the company to SN. The source, who for fear of reprisals wishes to remain anonymous, says that the inquiry would then be had the saved recording disappeared.
- It was deleted by Ryanair and no one wants to say when or by whom. It is clear that it should not go to, the recording is supposed to be maintained in order to ensure what has happened during the trip, said the source.
In the inquiry conducted by the event, it appears that the data from both the voice recording from the cockpit as the tachograph, Flight Data Recorder, was deleted. Inquiry was instead based primarily on interviews with pilots and Stefan Christensen of The Board, in charge of the investigation and wrote the report, saying it still went well - this time.
- This time it went well but the recordings but another time perhaps it is not so. Then it's unfortunate if data gets lost on the way.
Someone in Ryanair's organization has printed off the fuse for voice recording, after the plane landed. Recording records the last two hours of conversation in the cockpit, then it starts over again and the previously recorded material is erased. Who tampered with the audio recording, and why has neither the Investigation or Ryanair pilots learned.
- If it is so that we as investigative organization requires recording so we have the right to take part of it, but in this case, the company has put it out of use. If there is a decision made at the management of Ryanair or whether it is an individual technician who acted, we never got clarity, only the pilots had done right and saved the information. Often the plane off afterwards and then wants you might not have the standing for several days pending investigation says Stefan Christensen.
But in this case, was the plane standing at Skavsta anyway.
- Yes, that means really think that the recording should have been left behind, says Stefan Christensen.
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My apology to Ayro
You are quite wrong, I'm afraid. In Jan 2011 Aer Lingus "most certainly" hired in at least 6 from Ryanair for several days. Here's a pic of one at CDG operating the EI529 to DUB.
I stand by my comments regarding the press and FR press releases however.
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What was the outcome of the investigation into the allegation that Ryanair had been 'economical with the truth' over the issue of incorrectly stating their MTOWs in an effort to get cheaper nav charges from Eurocontrol?
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Many airlines do hec7or.
I have a feeling Ryanair does or did a portion of their insurance through their Isle of Man subsidiary, Aviation Insurance Limited who would underwrite a portion of their aircraft, passenger and third party insurance. However, there are many other insurance risks they would seek cover from elsewhere and this would be consistant with industry standard.
I have a feeling Ryanair does or did a portion of their insurance through their Isle of Man subsidiary, Aviation Insurance Limited who would underwrite a portion of their aircraft, passenger and third party insurance. However, there are many other insurance risks they would seek cover from elsewhere and this would be consistant with industry standard.
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Surely with today's technology where a Ł10.00 mp3 player can store my entire music collection a cvr with 2 hour capacity that requires a fuse to be pulled by the pilot to save information that might incriminate him is archaic at best.
If RR engines can phone home for a health check and monitoring couldn't the cvr store 24 hours of data that any ATC or aviation authority could command the plane to transmit following a mayday or any terrain / pull up warning? Of course it [I]could[I] be done quite easily, if lost cvr are as big an issue as the program made out.
If RR engines can phone home for a health check and monitoring couldn't the cvr store 24 hours of data that any ATC or aviation authority could command the plane to transmit following a mayday or any terrain / pull up warning? Of course it [I]could[I] be done quite easily, if lost cvr are as big an issue as the program made out.
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Originally Posted by "Epsomdog
You are quite correct, in this instance. I was thinking of Nov 2012, please accept my apologies.
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EU Ops policy or Company policy?
Lexoncd quote:-" If true as stated the aircraft involved in the Valencia diversion were as all fuelled according to the legal requirements then the issue they should have addressed isn't about a specific airline but about the JAR fuel policy applying to all airlines."
Any airline can take MORE fuel than the minimum required by the regulations, (RTOW and MTOW limits apply).
Airlines which operate strictly in accordance with the regulations are operating to the LOWEST minimum standard acceptable by law, whether fuel policy or FTLs, for example.
There is always room for improvement, but it costs.
Any airline can take MORE fuel than the minimum required by the regulations, (RTOW and MTOW limits apply).
Airlines which operate strictly in accordance with the regulations are operating to the LOWEST minimum standard acceptable by law, whether fuel policy or FTLs, for example.
There is always room for improvement, but it costs.
T/S forcast today over BCN dest Pmi. We put on an extra 500kg burnt the lot
Arrived PMI. So why don't pilots put on what's required. Obviously commercial pressure in some Airlines. Bring back the old OSAP checks ' the authority doing the policing. Not just checking the company's audit trail.
Arrived PMI. So why don't pilots put on what's required. Obviously commercial pressure in some Airlines. Bring back the old OSAP checks ' the authority doing the policing. Not just checking the company's audit trail.
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Bonuses for catching you out with excess baggage, pushing e-cigarettes and targeting 'rowdy groups': How Ryanair cashes in on your check-in misery - and targets your holiday money | Mail Online
No doubt the DM will be the next to be 'sued' by Motor Mouth Michael.
No doubt the DM will be the next to be 'sued' by Motor Mouth Michael.
No doubt the DM will be the next to be 'sued' by Motor Mouth Michael.
Ryanair sues Daily Mail and Daily Mirror publishers over safety claims | Media | The Guardian.
Meanwhile the Belfast Telegraph has published the following apology:
Ryanair - clarification - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
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Quote by Sober Lark
Ryanair Air safety committee,SAIR's, Crewdock, OFDM ? And how would you know about the company's ERC's?
Of course you may have "a friend" who works for Ryanair but you seem remarkably well informed about their internal structures for a member of the public.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Ryanair pilots had Employee Representation Committees regarding amongst other matters conditions of employment and collective bargaining negotiations?
On the safety front. Channel 4 really made such a hatchet job of the facts and the reporter will win no awards for investigative journalism. They made n mention of how employees could air their concerns through the Ryanair Air Safety Committee or the Safety Alert Initial Reporting program or through Crew dock or the Flight Safety Officer or the Operational Flight Data Monitoring system or to the IAA. Strange.
On the safety front. Channel 4 really made such a hatchet job of the facts and the reporter will win no awards for investigative journalism. They made n mention of how employees could air their concerns through the Ryanair Air Safety Committee or the Safety Alert Initial Reporting program or through Crew dock or the Flight Safety Officer or the Operational Flight Data Monitoring system or to the IAA. Strange.
Of course you may have "a friend" who works for Ryanair but you seem remarkably well informed about their internal structures for a member of the public.
Last edited by Aldente; 18th Aug 2013 at 07:57.
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Aldente, these internal structures are out there in the public domain if you look. They are not cockpit secrets! Out of 80 million passengers I'm sure there are quite a few more of us that don't depend on Channel 4 for a balanced education on such matters as Ryanair's safety.
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