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Ryanair secrets?

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Ryanair secrets?

Old 12th Aug 2013, 16:30
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Ryanair secrets?

Channel 4 'Dispatches' programme (in UK) this evening, Monday, at 2000 - 'Ryanair: Secrets from the Cockpit'.

According to Sky's tv guide, Reporter Seyi Rhodes hears from pilots of Europe's biggest airline, Ryanair, about their concerns around passenger safety.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 18:54
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This is a Daily Mail article, taken from the Dispatches documentary.
Ryanair pilots 'bullied into silence over safety': Two-thirds say they are not comfortable raising fears with bosses | Mail Online


In other news, Ryan refused to refund a passenger's ticket, because she 'died too soon'.
Ryanair refused to refund ticket of passenger who died 'because she died too soon' | Mail Online
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 19:22
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That's no surprise, I flew with a cargo airline whose contract openly stated that posting on media such as Prune was a breach of contract.

Right or wrong, a contract is an agreement. If you don't accept the terms, then don't sign it. Sometimes it's because of 'questionable' attitudes, sometimes commercial confidence, it also 'prevents' disaffected personnel being able to express their frustration too openly.

I have little time for Ryanair, that said, whenever I've used them, they've been on time and the price was acceptable. What more can you ask for?

Their fuel policy bothers me in principle, but not in fact, as I don't fly with them anymore (as a passenger these days).
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 19:38
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I have little time for Ryanair, that said, whenever I've used them, they've been on time and the price was acceptable. What more can you ask for?
A contradiction in terms to end all contradictions. Ryanair pilots will thank you for your support. Are you the type who takes great joy in calling the flightdeck spineless so and so's whilst benefiting from their professionalism when they take you from A to B safely and on time? Just curious.

Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 12th Aug 2013 at 19:39.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 19:47
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From what I have seen Ryanair do seem to do whatever it takes to keep reasonable critics as quiet as possible. They must spend a significant percentage of investors money on their legal department.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 19:54
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According to EU law, if a contract you sign is illegal ( as is a clause that forbids you to participate in free media), the employer is liable, not the employee.
It is the employer who must make sure any contract is according the law. The employee acts in good trust that the employer is adhering to all EU laws, which, by the way take priority over any local ( yes, also Irish) laws.

IF the employer would fire you for breach of an illegal clause in a contract, you have a win win at court as not only were you wrongfully dismissed, the employer is ALSO guilty of obliging people to sign an illegal contract. That is called protection of employees And legal liability of the employer.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 20:00
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Originally Posted by Dengue_Dude View Post
I have little time for Ryanair, that said, whenever I've used them, they've been on time and the price was acceptable. What more can you ask for?
You have little time for them but you use them? This must be a special kind of English which we don't use in Sweden.

Cut-price airlines offering genuine value, this is fine, commercial competition etc. this also is fine but - not at any price and definitely not at the cost of safety or treating passengers and staff like trash. Someone, whether government or a regulating body, needs to step in.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 20:09
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The results of the pilot's council questionaire can be found on the Chanel 4 site.

It makes interesting reading. The results show that Ryanair pilots have no confidence in the safety reporting system, and are not told anything about previous incidents in Ryanair.

Dispatches: Ryanair pilots concerned about passenger safety - Channel 4 - Info - Press

Makes you wonder, doesn't it. If Ryan pilots know nothing about safety incidents within their own company, then who does?? Ryanair may be having a near-accident every week, and nobody would know.

Is this a safety-concious airline? Are they safe to fly on?

Please see the disclaimer in the posting below.........

Last edited by silverstrata; 12th Aug 2013 at 20:16.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 20:15
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Yellow and Blue:

Why was the earlier post today about Ryanair taken down and why are Ryanair pilots not allowed to express themselves on PPRuNe.

The Daily Mail reported that Ryanair lawers have a habit of contacting blog sites, and forcing them to take down adverse comments about the company.

Readers will have to contact the Daily Mail for more information on the source of this comment. Any allegations are made by the Daily Mail and are nothing to do with the poster. The poster has no connection with Ryanair, and is writing his own views. Anything the poster does say will be denied at a later date. The poster has a medical condition whereby things are written in moments of memory loss, and therefore cannot be held responsible for any postings. The poster is not in Ireland, and will blow raspberries at any approaches by Irish lawyers.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 20:25
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... Fuel emergencies happen, mainly due to congestion at destination airport (weather, single runway operation, congested airspace etc etc)

I have NO affiliation with FR but believe me, they are not the only ones who have 'Fuel Emergencies'...

In a previous life, I worked for an airline who 'regularly' called Fuel Emergency inbound to base airport.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 20:25
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I am just watching this now and they are talking about the preservation of CVR after incidents such as the high descent rate in Germany.

Can someone explain what the procedure is here?

How does the pilot "preserve" the CVR recording after arrival and what circumstances would require this to be done?

I am assuming that these CVRs have moved beyond the old magnetic tape that just preserved the last 30 mins until being overwritten.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 20:36
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Captain Tcas: What you say sounds correct, but if it is why has RPG, IALPA, BALPA et al not used this and made a claim? There has been much talk on here about pilots being coerced into signing, complaining later and not feeling confident to go to court because they'd lose a job. If the law supports them why no claims?
Regarding the attack on Prune, Facebook & Twitter, what has happened to the protection of freedom of speech; the right to assemble and protest; the right to express an opposite point of view without slandering? Are these not fundamentals of democracy as we know it in EU? How can such a thing happen? If true, are questions not being asked in Parliament?

Last edited by RAT 5; 12th Aug 2013 at 20:41.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 20:41
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In reply to the CVR question.

Most modern aircraft now have 2 hour CVRs and store the information in a solid state data module.

The procedure normally goes that when the crew feel that the CVR data is required to preserved then they have to pull the applicable CVR circuit breaker once on the ground and shut down.

Then the CVR can either be downloaded using a download tool or removed and sent for download at a workshop. Generally its the latter as downloading a large audio file takes a little while.

This download or CVR replacement will be performed by the ground engineers.

When the data has been preserved either by download or CVR replacement then the CB would be reset by engineering.

Finally this should all be recorded in the aircraft technical log book and then its normally up to the airlines safety department to use the recordings accordingly as part of the investigation into the reported event.

Last edited by jimpy1979uk; 12th Aug 2013 at 20:43.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 20:42
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Hmmm.. 4 aircraft calling Mayday with fuel shortage. First one bursts a tyre on landing and closes the runway........
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 20:45
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Yep, I just watched the program, and was particularly impressed by the Spanish traffic controller chap who of course has no axes to grind.....
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 20:45
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It is not that that bothers me it is that two called Mayday and they were not at Final Reserve.....queue jumping??
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 20:56
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It is not that that bothers me it is that two called Mayday and they were not at Final Reserve.....queue jumping??
Oh not you as well. You're as bad as the daily mail. Honestly, pilots have no interest in queue jumping if they are already going to be diverted and probably spend the rest of the night in Valencia. Especially when a company aircraft has declared a mayday.

I'm surprised you aren't more concerned about the LAN aircraft whose engine failed due to lack of fuel.

3 Ryanair maydays...but they also have loads more aircraft flying into Madrid than most other airlines.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 20:59
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What bothers me is that the Ryan Air boys are complaining. I bet a fair share of these guys came from line training/MPL/p2f/ programs, and they were willing to jump the line to get ahead of other pilots. If you have no respect for other pilots or yourself (what it comes down to is the profession) then why be surprised when management is treating you the way they are. You reap what you sow....Talk about the boomerang effect.

Last edited by TheBigD; 12th Aug 2013 at 21:17.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 21:02
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Pudoc, your comments are noted which I found quite ironic as I will not have the DM in the house! Where did the Maydays come from if they were not at final reserve?? If there company manuals require it earlier then I (and probably a large number of other professional pilots)want to know about it.

I am sure the LAN Chile flight is an interesting story in itself.

Last edited by RHINO; 12th Aug 2013 at 21:03.
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Old 12th Aug 2013, 21:07
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The implication from the programme seemed to be that a number of RYR pilots had received The Letter and were under pressure to improve their fuel load / turnaround time / flight time so as not to lose their zero-hours contracts.

Presumably pulling the CVR would take up valuable minutes, and perhaps expose the fact that they hadn't actually been flying on fumes?
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