Ryanair secrets?
To that end, I would be actively impressed were a statement to be issued from the IAA to the effect that no airline pilot under their jurisdiction should be afraid of bringing safety-related concerns about their Company to them and that any such concerns raised would be treated in the strictest confidence. Also I would be even more impressed were they to give a definitive statement that no names of complainants have ever been released back to the airlines in question.
As that is the current position then making public statements on it would be treated with "well they would say that wouldn't they".
IAA and CAA are operating within remit of respective Governments / EU law and are responsible to them not a badly researched TV program pretty much ignored by 99% of the population. If people have proof that they are not doing this then respective Depts of Transport would be interested in hearing it.
Funny that no ex Ryanair pilot has ever publicised that they made anonymous safety reports to IAA and were dismissed a week later.
Aside from claiming some people in IAA may have aviation experience with an airline.............WOW who would have thunk it.........maybe we should be asking do Aviation Regulation Bodies have people working from them who have no aviation experience.
All that has occurred is a group claiming to represent pilots, who have failed on each attempt to get a union, used a badly written and researched TV program to try and make their case.
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
these pilots are elected and are representing Ryanair pilots. In a ballot earlier ryanair pilots voted in favor of them and i believe the goal is eventually to have active Ryanair pilots on the board instead. The reason they choose experience outside the company at the moment is that few want to put their name forward due to potential repercussions from their employer at this stage.
Last edited by Pablo_Diablo; 7th Sep 2013 at 21:10.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regarding the IAA.
I did find something MOL said in his press conference in Sweden (post 303) very interesting. He said "In the last 5yrs there have been 7,500 safety reports made to the IAA, all investigated and no safety findings against Ryanair"
Now I am not going to cast aspersions on the quality of IAA investigations but if there were 7,500 crimes reported in my town and the local police had no convictions I would not think that there were no crimes, I would just think that the police were not up to the job!
I did find something MOL said in his press conference in Sweden (post 303) very interesting. He said "In the last 5yrs there have been 7,500 safety reports made to the IAA, all investigated and no safety findings against Ryanair"
Now I am not going to cast aspersions on the quality of IAA investigations but if there were 7,500 crimes reported in my town and the local police had no convictions I would not think that there were no crimes, I would just think that the police were not up to the job!
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Airport in D'Sun
Age: 50
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Head Counts
If I am not mistaken Jet2 had lso binned the 'Headcount' also....
Maybe if they hadnt the young lad in MAN wouldnt have got his wee free trip last year...
I put had as I am not sure if they still do not do the Headcount or if it was a recommendation to reinstate it...
Maybe if they hadnt the young lad in MAN wouldnt have got his wee free trip last year...
I put had as I am not sure if they still do not do the Headcount or if it was a recommendation to reinstate it...
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SWBKCB
If you watch the press conference in Sweden (17:50sec) that is what MOL says. The 7,500 cover all Irish airlines but taking into account the comparative size of RYR against the rest a large proportion must be Ryanair related.
Good stat by the way, it sounds even worse when you say 4 a day.
If you watch the press conference in Sweden (17:50sec) that is what MOL says. The 7,500 cover all Irish airlines but taking into account the comparative size of RYR against the rest a large proportion must be Ryanair related.
Good stat by the way, it sounds even worse when you say 4 a day.
PPH....
In the last 5yrs there have been 7,500 safety reports made to the IAA, all investigated and no safety findings against Ryanair"
Where I work (non IAA) the vast majority of " Air Safety Reports" (ASRs) are filed for matters such as a go-around (no matter what the reason), deficiency in weather reporting/forecasting, deficiencies in Air Traffic Services, disruptive passengers/offloading of passengers, etc, etc. I could go on but I won't because my Ops manual has a four page list of instances where ASR's must be filed. Most of the listed reasons are in all honesty pretty trivial but are probably of vague interest to someone in the authority who is perhaps watching for trends developing. So the paperwork goes in, it counts as a report., but since it wasn't because of a wing falling off or an engine blowing up
there's no flashing of lights and launching of "safety investigations".It is very very rare that you'll ever file anything that the authority will ever take more than a passing interest in, and vanishingly rare that the authority will ask the company for further info.
I suspect the IAA's rules for filing ASR's will be similar, so I don't think MOL's comment is the least bit incredible.....in fact since Ryanair are operating high intensity shorthaul Ops to some fairly basic airports I'd say the fact that they are only filing 4 a day across the whole airline means they're are doing well.
Last edited by wiggy; 8th Sep 2013 at 08:08.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wiggy
That is a fair comment and obviously I did not mean that all 7,500 would be of a serious nature or anything even approaching serious. I would be interested to see some stats from other aviation authorities.
That is a fair comment and obviously I did not mean that all 7,500 would be of a serious nature or anything even approaching serious. I would be interested to see some stats from other aviation authorities.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The young lad hid in the toilet after it had been checked so wouldn't have been caught by a head count anyway.
They now do a head count on every flight.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did find something MOL said in his press conference in Sweden (post 303) very interesting. He said "In the last 5yrs there have been 7,500 safety reports made to the IAA, all investigated and no safety findings against Ryanair"
Did the IAA provide them? Surely this should be confidential and sensitive information that a regulator should not share with others (especially as it related to all Irish airlines, not just Ryanair).
I also wonder (regardless of their accuracy) where Rynanair got these figures from?
Jeepers Gents (?Ladies) I really think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here,
It usually goes something like this:
Pilot fills out Air Safety Report (paper or electronic) , one copy goes to the Authority, another goes to the Airline's own Flight Safety desk/Office, and if the pilot has any sense he keeps another copy. So MOL/FR are bound to know how many are filed without involving the IAA...
Whether you chose to believe his claim regarding the number of reports is another matter, but 4 a day sounds eminently credible to me. I really can't see any conspiracy at work here...but if it floats your boat
.
Last edited by wiggy; 8th Sep 2013 at 09:25.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: cheshire
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How can you have faith in a so called confidential reporting system if the airline has a copy? Lets say there's An incident of note on Dublin to Biarritz and you as captain file a report.. With only one flight a day on that route its pretty easy to identify the pilot filing the report. Does that fact, if true, deter anyone from raising issues? company culture comes into play then?
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: South Korea
Age: 62
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When facing a resourceful and cunning adversary like the Ryanair management team, it will require a few individuals of extraordinary courage to stand up to them.
I regularly came into conflict with one particular manager when I worked there, and we had many heated discussions about how things "should be done"
An Anceint Chinese General once said (heavily abbreviated): "In battle, victory is gained by careful planning and supprise, by those skilled in the unorthodox"
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is pretty astonishing and needs to be looked into a lot more in depth but not on here!
RyanAir have taken the IAAs statement of support and practically turned it into an advertizing jingle, rattling it out at press conferences and the media at every opportunity.
If, as some people are suggesting (not me your honour) theres some sort of an 'Old Boys Network' at play here then just how credible is that statement?
RyanAir have no problem embarking on legal battles they can't possibly win and then boasting about the free publicity it generated afterwards, but now theyre hauling the reputation of IAA into it and if anything were to come out in court to discredit RyanAir in any way then by implication the reputation of the IAA would also suffer.
@Racedo, We're not talking about ordinary people "that may have aviation experience with an airline" we're talking about former RyanAir managers and in this particular context theres a whole heap of difference.
Im not casting any aspersions on any of the individuals which may be referred to in this case but from my experience many (though not all) RyanAir managers would be viewed as 'toxic' in any organization other than RyanAir.
RyanAir have taken the IAAs statement of support and practically turned it into an advertizing jingle, rattling it out at press conferences and the media at every opportunity.
If, as some people are suggesting (not me your honour) theres some sort of an 'Old Boys Network' at play here then just how credible is that statement?
RyanAir have no problem embarking on legal battles they can't possibly win and then boasting about the free publicity it generated afterwards, but now theyre hauling the reputation of IAA into it and if anything were to come out in court to discredit RyanAir in any way then by implication the reputation of the IAA would also suffer.
Aside from claiming some people in IAA may have aviation experience with an airline.............WOW who would have thunk it.........maybe we should be asking do Aviation Regulation Bodies have people working from them who have no aviation experience.
Im not casting any aspersions on any of the individuals which may be referred to in this case but from my experience many (though not all) RyanAir managers would be viewed as 'toxic' in any organization other than RyanAir.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Another Planet.
Posts: 559
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EGGSPURTS IN TOP JOBS.
racedo:
"Aside from claiming some people in IAA may have aviation experience with an airline.............WOW who would have thunk it.........maybe we should be asking do Aviation Regulation Bodies have people working from them who have no aviation experience."
I seem to recall a recent posting re the new EASA FTLs indicating that the pedigrees of the top dogs on that committee, dedicated to making our working lives even more arduous, failed to include any form of aircrew experience??
"Aside from claiming some people in IAA may have aviation experience with an airline.............WOW who would have thunk it.........maybe we should be asking do Aviation Regulation Bodies have people working from them who have no aviation experience."
I seem to recall a recent posting re the new EASA FTLs indicating that the pedigrees of the top dogs on that committee, dedicated to making our working lives even more arduous, failed to include any form of aircrew experience??
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One has to ask why, anyone with a modicum of aptitude for airline flying, and who has been employed as such on the expectant salaries, would then choose to throw that away and join the XAA's. Are they really up to the job for which they then become the regulator? Do they understand the environment and thus the problems associated with it? Are you talking to an empty tin? They might be very good at castigating those who don't cross t's and dot i's in their paperwork, but are they really the correct calibre of experience to police the industry? Discuss.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Kansas
Age: 85
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How can you have faith in a so called confidential reporting system if the airline has a copy? Lets say there's An incident of note on Dublin to Biarritz and you as captain file a report.. With only one flight a day on that route its pretty easy to identify the pilot filing the report. Does that fact, if true, deter anyone from raising issues? company culture comes into play then?
Pilot flies to Biarritz and a go round is required because previous aircraft was slow in taking off, Pilot writes up incident report and hands it to the airline and also forwards it to regulator. No basis of confidentiality in it because its not a confidential reporting system in use, its a standard reporting of everything that has as been described.
@Racedo, We're not talking about ordinary people "that may have aviation experience with an airline" we're talking about former RyanAir managers and in this particular context theres a whole heap of difference.
Im not casting any aspersions on any of the individuals which may be referred to in this case but from my experience many (though not all) RyanAir managers would be viewed as 'toxic' in any organization other than RyanAir.
Im not casting any aspersions on any of the individuals which may be referred to in this case but from my experience many (though not all) RyanAir managers would be viewed as 'toxic' in any organization other than RyanAir.