Southwest KLGA gear collapse.
"The NTSB deployed an investigator to LaGuardia shortly after the accident to coordinate the on-scene activities and document the airplane's damage".
Press Release July 23, 2013
Press Release July 23, 2013
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Speed of Sound
Not worthy of the dramatic gasping.
The very early and perhaps limited information may have indicated that this was not an accident per the definitions embodied in NTSB 830.2
Obviously as additional details were revealed, NTSB acted promptly and appropriately.
The very early and perhaps limited information may have indicated that this was not an accident per the definitions embodied in NTSB 830.2
Substantial damage means damage or failure which adversely affects the structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component. Engine failure or damage limited to an engine if only one engine fails or is damaged, bent fairings or cowling, dented skin, small punctured holes in the skin or fabric, ground damage to rotor or propeller blades, and damage to landing gear, wheels, tires, flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or wingtips are not considered “substantial damage” for the purpose of this part.
Obviously as additional details were revealed, NTSB acted promptly and appropriately.
As soon as it became clear (from the liberated nosewheel) that we weren't looking at a simple NLG hangup, the Go-Team's phones would have been ringing.
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[Not a pilot:] As soon as it was revealed that the gear had failed with no prior warning, it might have been worth an investigation. From previous comments, it would be unusual to begin with positive gear indicator lights and end up dragging the nacelles down the runway.
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Recent tweets (beginning about 21:45 UTC July 25) from the NTSB:
NTSB releases investigative update from the7/22 Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-700 landing at New York’s LaGuardia Airport.
Evidence from video & other sources consistent with nose gear making contact with runway before main gear of SWA 737.
The SWA flight data recorder on the airplane recorded 1000 parameters & 27 hours of data, including entire flight from Nashville to NY.
Flaps on SWA 737-700 were set from 30 to 40 degrees about 56 seconds prior to touchdown at LGA.
SWA: Altitude was 32 feet, airspeed was 134 knots, and pitch attitude was 2 degrees nose-up 4 seconds prior to touchdown. All approx.
At touchdown at LGA, the SWA 737's airspeed was approximately 133 knots and the aircraft was pitched down approximately 3 degrees.
After touchdown at LaGuardia, the Southwest 737-700 came to a stop within approximately 19 seconds.
A cockpit voice recorder group will convene tomorrow at NTSB laboratories in DC to transcribe the relevant portion of the flight.
Evidence from video & other sources consistent with nose gear making contact with runway before main gear of SWA 737.
The SWA flight data recorder on the airplane recorded 1000 parameters & 27 hours of data, including entire flight from Nashville to NY.
Flaps on SWA 737-700 were set from 30 to 40 degrees about 56 seconds prior to touchdown at LGA.
SWA: Altitude was 32 feet, airspeed was 134 knots, and pitch attitude was 2 degrees nose-up 4 seconds prior to touchdown. All approx.
At touchdown at LGA, the SWA 737's airspeed was approximately 133 knots and the aircraft was pitched down approximately 3 degrees.
After touchdown at LaGuardia, the Southwest 737-700 came to a stop within approximately 19 seconds.
A cockpit voice recorder group will convene tomorrow at NTSB laboratories in DC to transcribe the relevant portion of the flight.
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Southwest said in a statement that the landing scenario the NTSB describes from video and other sources "is not in accordance with our operating procedures."
From: Southwest jet hit runway nose first, investigators say - CNN.com
Well - that's good to know . . .
From: Southwest jet hit runway nose first, investigators say - CNN.com
Well - that's good to know . . .
That latest video was more like a hard landing compared to the earlier video pages back in this thread.
I'm beginning to think that using a shakey camera to copy from a shakey phone cancels out some of the violence.
I'm beginning to think that using a shakey camera to copy from a shakey phone cancels out some of the violence.
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Look at the pavement edge compared to the frame just before impact. You can clearly see the pitch angle changing downward, and at a fairly rapid rate. Too bad the window itself is so out of focus you can't see any marks on it to use as reference points, although some optical genius might be able to find and enhance some...
Last edited by thcrozier; 26th Jul 2013 at 02:39.
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There was "substantial Damage" incurred when the nose gear strut penetrated upwards into the avionics bay as the well circulated photograph has depicted. Not saying that the NTSB has to spend months on this, but it should qualify as an accident for the NTSB.
Also, the presence of injuries also weighs into their definitions.
Also, the presence of injuries also weighs into their definitions.
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Not to revive the "when to start your own evac" debate, but I just wanted to point out it's worth considering the effect of Asiana being fresh in pax's memory. Most everyone in the general public has seen footage of the burned out fuselage, and I bet many on this SWA flight were thinking "I'm getting outta here before that part." Granted Asiana took a while to look like that, and there's no comparing that fire to this incident, but it doesn't have to be rational -- a vivid mental image has a lot of power.
Just to illustrate that, in post #124's video you can hear people shouting "we need to open the doors" almost the instant the aircraft stops moving. Both there and in post #149 you hear the CC immediately telling people to stay seated, but then you hear "no no no" and "we gotta get out" -- and in the second video people start shouting about smoke (maybe only visible out the windows, who knows)... easy to see how a herd mentality takes over at that point.
Anyway, I wonder if the reaction would have been different had this been before Asiana (or many month/years afterward).
Just to illustrate that, in post #124's video you can hear people shouting "we need to open the doors" almost the instant the aircraft stops moving. Both there and in post #149 you hear the CC immediately telling people to stay seated, but then you hear "no no no" and "we gotta get out" -- and in the second video people start shouting about smoke (maybe only visible out the windows, who knows)... easy to see how a herd mentality takes over at that point.
Anyway, I wonder if the reaction would have been different had this been before Asiana (or many month/years afterward).
in post #124's video you can hear people shouting "we need to open the doors" almost the instant the aircraft stops moving. Both there and in post #149 you hear the CC immediately telling people to stay seated, but then you hear "no no no" and "we gotta get out" --
Sure, this would be as close as you could get to a "surprise" event, but you have to be ready to spout out that PA under any conditions. The pax and your FAs are relying on it.
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An interesting HF discussion point. Going back a couple of generations and people would blindly follow the instructions of the crew. The 21st century citizen is far less likely to be a follower (we see this in all aspects of life) and is more likely to make a clear decision about their own actions. It would be interesting to ask the CC as to their views upon how much influence they had/could have had over the evacuation.
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From previous comments, it would be unusual to begin with positive gear indicator lights and end up dragging the nacelles down the runway
absolutely correct, however seeing as the gear normally retracts forward, but in this instance failed AFT, it suggests structural failure of some gear components, caused by???
absolutely correct, however seeing as the gear normally retracts forward, but in this instance failed AFT, it suggests structural failure of some gear components, caused by???
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When will the riff raff of the world learn to hold their cameras STEADY during crash landings??