Southwest KLGA gear collapse.
My transcription of the passenger video.
Some of the dialogue is not clear and is open to interpretation.
Unless noted otherwise, all comments are apparently from adult passengers.
(CC) denotes face to face cabin crew
There is one obvious public address announcement.
(!) indicates urgency.
Video timecode reference
0.08 sound of child humming
0.10 sound of impact
0.20 "crash"
0.29 sound of impact stops
0.31 "are you alright"?
0.32 "get out"
0.32 "oh my god"
0.36 scream
0.36 "stay seated, please remain seated" (CC)
0.39 "seat belt"
0.40 "stay in your seat!" (CC)
0.41 "Oh my god"
0.41 "Alright"
0.42 "ladies and gentlemen we are not there, you need to take your seat, take your seat" (PA announcement)
0.51 "..scared out of my mind.. but"
0.53 "oh my god" child
0.56 "oh my god"
0.56 "..listen, just to make the plane jerk.."
1.08 "Did your legs bend?"(laughs)
1.12 "We gotta get out"
1.13 "I want these kids.. off"
1.17 "all the way across" (laughs)
1.19 "There is smoke here, there is smoke here!"
1.22 "I'm not super..mam"
1.24 "Oh my (expletive) Lord"
1.27 "smoke here"
1.30 "I need to get ..coming to me and get these doors..happening(?)" (UNKOWN)
1.31 "Just get my crutches!"
1.32 "We are not at the gate" (CC)
1.35 "smoke here (angry)
1.36 "but there is smoke here!"
1.37 "Calm down, remain..hold on!" (CC)
Video cuts then resumes
Loud drumming sound of fire hose spraying fuselage.
1.45 "keep the doors closed for right now.. they'll tell us in about 5 minutes" (CC)
1.48 "arm the right doors"
1.50 sound of coughing
1.51 "smoke"
ENDS
Some of the dialogue is not clear and is open to interpretation.
Unless noted otherwise, all comments are apparently from adult passengers.
(CC) denotes face to face cabin crew
There is one obvious public address announcement.
(!) indicates urgency.
Video timecode reference
0.08 sound of child humming
0.10 sound of impact
0.20 "crash"
0.29 sound of impact stops
0.31 "are you alright"?
0.32 "get out"
0.32 "oh my god"
0.36 scream
0.36 "stay seated, please remain seated" (CC)
0.39 "seat belt"
0.40 "stay in your seat!" (CC)
0.41 "Oh my god"
0.41 "Alright"
0.42 "ladies and gentlemen we are not there, you need to take your seat, take your seat" (PA announcement)
0.51 "..scared out of my mind.. but"
0.53 "oh my god" child
0.56 "oh my god"
0.56 "..listen, just to make the plane jerk.."
1.08 "Did your legs bend?"(laughs)
1.12 "We gotta get out"
1.13 "I want these kids.. off"
1.17 "all the way across" (laughs)
1.19 "There is smoke here, there is smoke here!"
1.22 "I'm not super..mam"
1.24 "Oh my (expletive) Lord"
1.27 "smoke here"
1.30 "I need to get ..coming to me and get these doors..happening(?)" (UNKOWN)
1.31 "Just get my crutches!"
1.32 "We are not at the gate" (CC)
1.35 "smoke here (angry)
1.36 "but there is smoke here!"
1.37 "Calm down, remain..hold on!" (CC)
Video cuts then resumes
Loud drumming sound of fire hose spraying fuselage.
1.45 "keep the doors closed for right now.. they'll tell us in about 5 minutes" (CC)
1.48 "arm the right doors"
1.50 sound of coughing
1.51 "smoke"
ENDS
Last edited by mickjoebill; 28th Jul 2013 at 05:59.
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SWA and Asiana
After reading 80+ pages earlier about how Asiana pilots can't fly, I find it ironic to list these facts.
==SWA
Short haul route.
Working during normal business hour.
Not in training of any kind.
Normal condition at airport, with all landing guidance systems working.
==Asiana
10+ route
Working at 4AM body clock.
In 'training'
Part of landing guidance system down.
Happy 60th Anniversary of Cease Fire Agreement of the bloody Korean war btw.
==SWA
Short haul route.
Working during normal business hour.
Not in training of any kind.
Normal condition at airport, with all landing guidance systems working.
==Asiana
10+ route
Working at 4AM body clock.
In 'training'
Part of landing guidance system down.
Happy 60th Anniversary of Cease Fire Agreement of the bloody Korean war btw.
Last edited by dba7; 28th Jul 2013 at 05:19.
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Fatigue wasn't a factor in this accident which, by your post, you understand. And there was no training going on as well, which you understand.
What's your point?
Ever been in a car accident when your well rested and the traffic lights are all operating with only you in the car? It happens. It did here as well.
The holes in the cheese lined up and the accident happened. Anytime you mix a human element into the system, you introduce the possibility of errors.
What's your point?
Ever been in a car accident when your well rested and the traffic lights are all operating with only you in the car? It happens. It did here as well.
The holes in the cheese lined up and the accident happened. Anytime you mix a human element into the system, you introduce the possibility of errors.
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Good Lord, that's possibly the worst landing ever. Even the morons at SFO have a couple of valid excuses. Can anyone fly an airplane these days? What's the aviation system administrator's background here?
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Anytime you mix a human element into the system, you introduce the possibility of errors
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[Not a pilot:] In the case of the hard landing short of the runway, the pilots fared poorly at something they don't do very often that would be thought an innate skill.
In the case of the hard landing on the runway, the pilots flared poorly at something they do every day that would be thought an innate skill.
In the case of the hard landing on the runway, the pilots flared poorly at something they do every day that would be thought an innate skill.
Last edited by fotoguzzi; 28th Jul 2013 at 17:48.
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I watch a lot of videos of latin/S. American pilots and FOs landing manually as a matter of routine.
Look at the CAPT thumbs up his FO when he let him perform the landing near end of the video.... and the big smile the FO gives at that moment. Passing down the skills and taking a risk to grow the next generation of stick and rudder guys? That's leadership IMO.
Look at the CAPT thumbs up his FO when he let him perform the landing near end of the video.... and the big smile the FO gives at that moment. Passing down the skills and taking a risk to grow the next generation of stick and rudder guys? That's leadership IMO.
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junebug172
Fatigue wasn't a factor in this accident which, by your post, you understand. And there was no training going on as well, which you understand.
What's your point?
Ever been in a car accident when your well rested and the traffic lights are all operating with only you in the car? It happens. It did here as well.
The holes in the cheese lined up and the accident happened. Anytime you mix a human element into the system, you introduce the possibility of errors.
Fatigue wasn't a factor in this accident which, by your post, you understand. And there was no training going on as well, which you understand.
What's your point?
Ever been in a car accident when your well rested and the traffic lights are all operating with only you in the car? It happens. It did here as well.
The holes in the cheese lined up and the accident happened. Anytime you mix a human element into the system, you introduce the possibility of errors.
There were about 80+ pages under the Asiana thread where people were mocking how the Asiana pilots don't know how to fly.
That's my point.
Last edited by dba7; 28th Jul 2013 at 18:53.
There is a difference between this landing and the one in SFO by Asiana...
IMHO the Asiana one was an accident waiting to happen somewhere in the approach phase from what we have learned so far.
I'm not sure we have as many details about the approach phase of the Southwest one yet; meaning how the actual approach was conducted (stable/unstable, high or low on the path, high or low on the speed).
One thing is for sure they made it to the runway and in the last phase of the flight (flare) something went wrong.
You people have never had a bad landing? Misjudge your height? Brain fart at the wrong time?
Perhaps people should wait until they have more details of the approach phase before they make a statement.
I'm not sure we have as many details about the approach phase of the Southwest one yet; meaning how the actual approach was conducted (stable/unstable, high or low on the path, high or low on the speed).
One thing is for sure they made it to the runway and in the last phase of the flight (flare) something went wrong.
You people have never had a bad landing? Misjudge your height? Brain fart at the wrong time?
Perhaps people should wait until they have more details of the approach phase before they make a statement.
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That's my point.
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It looks to me like an attempt at reducing the float, but taken with way too much energy still left in the aircraft, and done way too strong.
On many airliners you will find pilots will slightly reduce the back pressure on the elevator at the end of the flare. This helps to compensate for the increased aerodynamic performance from ground effect as well as softening the touchdown by actually raising the main gear slightly (well, not really raising them - but reducing their rate of closure to the ground).
This technique is very effective, but you do have to time it right and you can't do it in isolation. For example, if you end up with a bunch of extra energy in the flare (ie, a bit fast), then this could lead you to touchdown on the nose. By the same token, if you end up a bit slow when you begin the flare, you could end up making the touchdown a bit harder than it already will be from being slow.
Poor landing technique is actually quite common. The problem really comes out now with the current push in the industry to reduce runway overruns. So many airlines are focusing on landing in the aiming point and touchdown zone, that a lot of pilots are really nervous about floating a bit. I'm not saying you should hold off your landings to achieve smoothness, but you need to evaluate all the factors. You aim to land at the aiming point or just past it, but if landing distance is not an issue, there is no need to force the aircraft on if you arrive over the threshold with a bit too much energy. If landing distance is an issue, then simply do a go-around.
I guess what I'm saying is, flaring is important. Just as important as not floating past the touchdown zone. We don't want to eradicate runway overruns only to replace them with smoking holes at the aiming points. That is simply just changing the location of the wreck, it is not improving safety.
On many airliners you will find pilots will slightly reduce the back pressure on the elevator at the end of the flare. This helps to compensate for the increased aerodynamic performance from ground effect as well as softening the touchdown by actually raising the main gear slightly (well, not really raising them - but reducing their rate of closure to the ground).
This technique is very effective, but you do have to time it right and you can't do it in isolation. For example, if you end up with a bunch of extra energy in the flare (ie, a bit fast), then this could lead you to touchdown on the nose. By the same token, if you end up a bit slow when you begin the flare, you could end up making the touchdown a bit harder than it already will be from being slow.
Poor landing technique is actually quite common. The problem really comes out now with the current push in the industry to reduce runway overruns. So many airlines are focusing on landing in the aiming point and touchdown zone, that a lot of pilots are really nervous about floating a bit. I'm not saying you should hold off your landings to achieve smoothness, but you need to evaluate all the factors. You aim to land at the aiming point or just past it, but if landing distance is not an issue, there is no need to force the aircraft on if you arrive over the threshold with a bit too much energy. If landing distance is an issue, then simply do a go-around.
I guess what I'm saying is, flaring is important. Just as important as not floating past the touchdown zone. We don't want to eradicate runway overruns only to replace them with smoking holes at the aiming points. That is simply just changing the location of the wreck, it is not improving safety.
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Look at the CAPT thumbs up his FO when he let him perform the landing near end of the video.... and the big smile the FO gives at that moment. Passing down the skills and taking a risk to grow the next generation of stick and rudder guys? That's leadership IMO.
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In the case of the hard landing on the runway, the pilots flared poorly at something they do every day that would be thought an innate skill.
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One passenger's account of the incident.
The Crash Landing of Southwest 345 | Nick Bradbury
Very surprised to read that SWA appears to have no plan for how to handle such an event.
The Crash Landing of Southwest 345 | Nick Bradbury
Very surprised to read that SWA appears to have no plan for how to handle such an event.
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re: passenger account
Well this guy followed instructions and left the carryons on the plane.
SWA returned them to him the following day --- minus a Macbook pro, apple tv, and lightning cable.
This isn't going to help getting people to leave their stuff.
SWA returned them to him the following day --- minus a Macbook pro, apple tv, and lightning cable.
This isn't going to help getting people to leave their stuff.