Southwest KLGA gear collapse.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: .
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A little education on SWA
Ok, first off I apologize to anyone who thinks I am talking down to them during this post, but I am tired of reading posts from people who don't know or understand how we operate at SWA. I am not going to address the ongoing investigation, lets wait until the NTSB report is published to learn exactly what happened. there are way too many versions out there right now to say anyone knows what happened that day.
So let me clear up some items:
Taxi speed: Our maximum taxi speed is listed in our FAA approved manuals. Don't like it, too bad. Show me an incident where our taxi speed was involved. As you will see repeatedly in this post, it saves gas. If conditions are acceptable, why should I not taxi faster and save fuel. To those who repeatedly use the number 40 knots, WRONG. Not even close.
Our pay/getting short cuts enroute: We are payed by TFP or Trips for Pay which are established by the planned distance of the flight. If we overfly we do get more based on block time. So whether it takes us the planned 2 hours or a shorter amount of time, we are paid the same. If I can cut 5 to 10 minutes off a flight with a few shortcuts, the pax are happy to arrive early, I may make up some time if I am running late, and best of all I save fuel. Less fuel burned equals less cost to the company which means my profit sharing check is bigger next year. As for picking up extra flying, sure if your flown block time is lower you have that ability if desired, not everyone does, probably less than half. It's a chance to increase their paycheck, if they feel they need to, that's their call. If I have an extra expense in my future, I too try to pick up some extra flying to help pay for that. Rest rules still apply as do the current flight time restrictions, so no problem. This summer I have averaged 65 block hours a month with a high of 75. Not even close to pushing a limit.
Flap selection for approaches is based on conditions. I've used flaps 40 in LAX, yes to help make the reverse high speed, (again, why not, shorter taxi=less fuel burned=less cost etc etc) and I've used flaps 30 going into Midway (gusty winds, flaps 40 approach speed corrected for gusts was right up against the 40 limit speed, 30 flaps had sufficient stopping margin and gave me a bigger buffer against a flap overspeed). Yes we prefer to use 30, but as stated earlier, that's the normal setting on an NG.
Approach speeds: provided to us by the performance computer and we are to be stabilized at that speed by 1000 ft. Our aircraft data is analyzed and if someone is exceeding the stabilized approach criteria, they will receive a call and asked about it. Burbank was before the stabilized approach criteria was established and the Midway incident had other factors that contributed as well.
Go arounds are uncommon, but I have been involved with several. I can tell you that when the criteria warranted it, we have accomplished a go around. This has obviously been a huge subject of conversation during flights recently and you would be surprised how often we actually do go around. Maybe we should be doing even more of them, but to see people making blanket statements about us NEVER going around is just flat out wrong.
Finally, like all other companies we have our share of "difficult personalities" but we are not cowboys pushing the limits every time we get on the aircraft. We have had a few incidents thru the years and I'm sure have narrowly avoided others. We are professionals who came to SWA thru the same channels that have brought each of you to where you are today or where you will end up in the future.
So let me clear up some items:
Taxi speed: Our maximum taxi speed is listed in our FAA approved manuals. Don't like it, too bad. Show me an incident where our taxi speed was involved. As you will see repeatedly in this post, it saves gas. If conditions are acceptable, why should I not taxi faster and save fuel. To those who repeatedly use the number 40 knots, WRONG. Not even close.
Our pay/getting short cuts enroute: We are payed by TFP or Trips for Pay which are established by the planned distance of the flight. If we overfly we do get more based on block time. So whether it takes us the planned 2 hours or a shorter amount of time, we are paid the same. If I can cut 5 to 10 minutes off a flight with a few shortcuts, the pax are happy to arrive early, I may make up some time if I am running late, and best of all I save fuel. Less fuel burned equals less cost to the company which means my profit sharing check is bigger next year. As for picking up extra flying, sure if your flown block time is lower you have that ability if desired, not everyone does, probably less than half. It's a chance to increase their paycheck, if they feel they need to, that's their call. If I have an extra expense in my future, I too try to pick up some extra flying to help pay for that. Rest rules still apply as do the current flight time restrictions, so no problem. This summer I have averaged 65 block hours a month with a high of 75. Not even close to pushing a limit.
Flap selection for approaches is based on conditions. I've used flaps 40 in LAX, yes to help make the reverse high speed, (again, why not, shorter taxi=less fuel burned=less cost etc etc) and I've used flaps 30 going into Midway (gusty winds, flaps 40 approach speed corrected for gusts was right up against the 40 limit speed, 30 flaps had sufficient stopping margin and gave me a bigger buffer against a flap overspeed). Yes we prefer to use 30, but as stated earlier, that's the normal setting on an NG.
Approach speeds: provided to us by the performance computer and we are to be stabilized at that speed by 1000 ft. Our aircraft data is analyzed and if someone is exceeding the stabilized approach criteria, they will receive a call and asked about it. Burbank was before the stabilized approach criteria was established and the Midway incident had other factors that contributed as well.
Go arounds are uncommon, but I have been involved with several. I can tell you that when the criteria warranted it, we have accomplished a go around. This has obviously been a huge subject of conversation during flights recently and you would be surprised how often we actually do go around. Maybe we should be doing even more of them, but to see people making blanket statements about us NEVER going around is just flat out wrong.
Finally, like all other companies we have our share of "difficult personalities" but we are not cowboys pushing the limits every time we get on the aircraft. We have had a few incidents thru the years and I'm sure have narrowly avoided others. We are professionals who came to SWA thru the same channels that have brought each of you to where you are today or where you will end up in the future.
@Boeingtanker
Thanks for clarifying some misconceptions (not mine) about SWA operations.
I've ridden with you guys a lot, and after flying the classic for thousands of hours, I must say I always respected your operations. Great safety record.
The NTSB should have some pretty good info soon.
Just to refresh my memory, is there much of a balloon or pitch change from flaps 30 to 40?
I've ridden with you guys a lot, and after flying the classic for thousands of hours, I must say I always respected your operations. Great safety record.
The NTSB should have some pretty good info soon.
Just to refresh my memory, is there much of a balloon or pitch change from flaps 30 to 40?
F30 pitch is +2.5 ish, F40 +0.
Feels like the barn doors are coming out when taking F40 and is a large nose down pitching moment requiring around 1s of trim or more. Also requires around 5% more N1 to hold the target speed.
Feels like the barn doors are coming out when taking F40 and is a large nose down pitching moment requiring around 1s of trim or more. Also requires around 5% more N1 to hold the target speed.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: farmm intersection, our ranch
Age: 57
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To those who repeatedly use the number 40 knots, WRONG. Not even close.
Really, I have been passed by you guys on parallel taxiways like I was standing still at 20 knots.
Jwscud
Thanks very much for your reply.
A long, long time ago in a land far away, I seem to recall we flew an ILS with flaps 25 and 140 knots.
At 1 dot on the GS, we called for flaps 40 and a lot happened all at once.
Back then, we flew with reference to fuel flows and never looked at N1 or N2.
My previous post about a flaps to 40 movement close in related to the idea that they were already coming down at 6-700 FPM, and if the captain was late with the trim, the nose wheel would hit first.
Regards.
A long, long time ago in a land far away, I seem to recall we flew an ILS with flaps 25 and 140 knots.
At 1 dot on the GS, we called for flaps 40 and a lot happened all at once.
Back then, we flew with reference to fuel flows and never looked at N1 or N2.
My previous post about a flaps to 40 movement close in related to the idea that they were already coming down at 6-700 FPM, and if the captain was late with the trim, the nose wheel would hit first.
Regards.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: flyover country USA
Age: 82
Posts: 4,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Conflicts Between FAA & NTSB
Conflicts Between FAA, NTSB Said To Be Rising In LaGuardia Accident Probe.
The Wall Street Journal (8/26, A3, Pasztor, Subscription Publication) reports
Southwest Airlines officials have said that tensions between FAA and NTSB officials threaten to hinder the investigation into the July 22 accident at LaGuardia Airport involving one of the carrier’s jets. According to the article, the rising importance of social media in releasing information related to investigations is exacerbating the conflicts between the agencies.
The Journal notes that the NTSB has been using Twitter to publicize details about its investigations. This in turn has reportedly prompted the FAA to expedite their internal responses and probes. Many airline officials have indicated that they feel growing pressure in facing competing requests for information from passengers as well as from different government agencies. The Journal also reports on a statement from an NTSB spokesman, who commented on the agency’s use of Twitter. The spokesman said that it is a valuable way “to inform the media and the general public about the status of accident investigations.”
The Wall Street Journal (8/26, A3, Pasztor, Subscription Publication) reports
Southwest Airlines officials have said that tensions between FAA and NTSB officials threaten to hinder the investigation into the July 22 accident at LaGuardia Airport involving one of the carrier’s jets. According to the article, the rising importance of social media in releasing information related to investigations is exacerbating the conflicts between the agencies.
The Journal notes that the NTSB has been using Twitter to publicize details about its investigations. This in turn has reportedly prompted the FAA to expedite their internal responses and probes. Many airline officials have indicated that they feel growing pressure in facing competing requests for information from passengers as well as from different government agencies. The Journal also reports on a statement from an NTSB spokesman, who commented on the agency’s use of Twitter. The spokesman said that it is a valuable way “to inform the media and the general public about the status of accident investigations.”
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boeingtanker - What is the SWA policy for use of the HGS (HUD) on landing? I recall it was not in use in the Burbank overrun where the pilot touched down halfway down the runway.
Was the HGS in use at LGA?
Was the HGS in use at LGA?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: .
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OBD: as Jwscud stated, about a 2.5 degree pitch change and if you don't anticipate or perhaps are pushing the nose down while making that change. . . .
Flyingchanges: I suppose about 12 MPH overtake could feel like you are being passed like you're standing still, right?
Seriously, I'm sure there are some guys who do "speed", but not as many as people think.
747Flyer: Sorry, no clue. Burbank was before my time here and I don't know if that aircraft had a HUD or not. As for the LGA incident? Don't know, not going to guess. The HUD is not required to be used during every approach, and since this was a visual approach, don't think too many Capts would bring it down. (For those not familiar, on SWA jets, HUD is installed only on the Captains side.
Flyingchanges: I suppose about 12 MPH overtake could feel like you are being passed like you're standing still, right?
Seriously, I'm sure there are some guys who do "speed", but not as many as people think.747Flyer: Sorry, no clue. Burbank was before my time here and I don't know if that aircraft had a HUD or not. As for the LGA incident? Don't know, not going to guess. The HUD is not required to be used during every approach, and since this was a visual approach, don't think too many Capts would bring it down. (For those not familiar, on SWA jets, HUD is installed only on the Captains side.
A different interpretation on this in the news.
Conflicts Between FAA & NTSB
Conflicts Between FAA, NTSB Said To Be Rising In LaGuardia Accident Probe.
The Wall Street Journal (8/26, A3, Pasztor, Subscription Publication) reports
Southwest Airlines officials have said that tensions between FAA and NTSB officials threaten to hinder the investigation into the July 22 accident at LaGuardia Airport involving one of the carrier’s jets. According to the article, the rising importance of social media in releasing information related to investigations is exacerbating the conflicts between the agencies.
The Journal notes that the NTSB has been using PPRuNe to publicize details about its investigations. This in turn has reportedly prompted the FAA to expedite their internal responses and probes. Many airline officials have indicated that they feel growing pressure in facing competing requests for information from passengers as well as from different government agencies. The Journal also reports on a statement from an NTSB spokesman, who commented on the agency’s use of PPRuNe. The spokesman said that it is a valuable way “to inform the media and the general public about the status of accident investigations.”
Conflicts Between FAA, NTSB Said To Be Rising In LaGuardia Accident Probe.
The Wall Street Journal (8/26, A3, Pasztor, Subscription Publication) reports
Southwest Airlines officials have said that tensions between FAA and NTSB officials threaten to hinder the investigation into the July 22 accident at LaGuardia Airport involving one of the carrier’s jets. According to the article, the rising importance of social media in releasing information related to investigations is exacerbating the conflicts between the agencies.
The Journal notes that the NTSB has been using PPRuNe to publicize details about its investigations. This in turn has reportedly prompted the FAA to expedite their internal responses and probes. Many airline officials have indicated that they feel growing pressure in facing competing requests for information from passengers as well as from different government agencies. The Journal also reports on a statement from an NTSB spokesman, who commented on the agency’s use of PPRuNe. The spokesman said that it is a valuable way “to inform the media and the general public about the status of accident investigations.”
It doesn't mention friction between the two parties, but rather the frustration of one party having to deal with conflicting demands in the middle of a fact finding investigation.
It also doesn't mention any role of PPrune in all this but instead highlights the use of T*w*I*t*t*e*r to release information without full coordination among the investigators on-scene.
There probably is some room for standardization here now that the internet, including PPrune is constantly trying to outguess the investigation in the early days of fact finding.
By ANDY PASZTOR
Friction between federal aviation regulators and crash investigators threatens to impede a probe into a Southwest Airlines Inc. landing accident last month in New York, according to the carrier's safety officials.
The July 22 accident at LaGuardia Airport, which resulted in more than a handful of injuries but no fatalities, underscores growing tension between experts at the National Transportation Safety Board, responsible for uncovering the causes of accidents, and regulators at the Federal Aviation Administration interested in swiftly punishing pilots or bringing civil-enforcement actions against airlines in the wake of a crash.
That inherent conflict is now exacerbated, according to industry and government-safety experts, by the growing importance of social media in disseminating air-safety information. As a result, many airline officials increasingly feel trapped between competing demands for ever faster releases of information, coming from passengers as well as different parts of the government and even their own top executives.
Escalating public pressure for nearly instantaneous details about airliner incidents and accidents has shaken up the previously staid, traditional world of accident investigations. The safety board's leaders increasingly are turning to Twitter to rush out details of significant findings-sometimes before advising on-site investigators of impending messages.
Those unconventional announcements in turn are prompting the FAA and industry players to speed up their internal investigations and responses.
The LaGuardia situation "is a good example of the multitude of information requests that come into the airline" after a typical crash or major incident, according to Timothy Logan, Southwest's senior risk-management official. Even before investigators from the safety board had completed their preliminary inquiry, he said, regulators from a number of different offices within the FAA already were seeking some of the same information from the carrier.
"I'm not sure it serves anybody's purpose," said Mr. Logan, because it wasn't coordinated properly and in any event, "the safety investigation should take precedence." FAA officials helping the NTSB on investigations are prohibited from working on potential enforcement cases.
About a week after the LaGuardia accident, Mr. Logan told an international safety conference last week in Vancouver, British Columbia, one part of the agency asked Southwest for information related to the plane's "black boxes," or onboard data and voice recorders.
"I haven't even seen it yet, how am I going to give it to you?" he recalled responding. The FAA is barred from using cockpit-voice recordings for enforcement.
"We're in the middle" of the tussle, Mr. Logan told the conference, because there is "certain information we're told we can't provide" to the FAA.
Calling the situation "very frustrating," he said "we need to get this worked out" to avoid broader delays and complications that could affect investigations of many other commercial-aviation accidents.
"We have four different parts of the agency coming at us" at the same time, Mr. Logan told a handful of attendees at the conference after his prepared remarks.
Pilot-union leaders at Southwest have privately expressed the same general complaints to the FAA, according to people familiar with the details.
Ten of the 149 people aboard the Southwest Boeing 737 were injured when the plane landed on its front wheels at LaGuardia, causing the nose gear to collapse and substantially damaging other parts of the aircraft. The high-profile accident temporarily closed the busy runway.
The captain of Southwest Flight 345, arriving from Nashville, took the unusual step of taking over the controls during the last 400 feet of the descent, and investigators are now trying to determine if she throttled back the engines prematurely. The plane switched to a nose-down position in the final four seconds of flight.
The NTSB has said it found no airplane malfunctions that could have caused the botched landing, though investigators haven't yet disclosed their conclusions.
The FAA said it is "supporting the NTSB and examining our areas of responsibility to determine if any near-term action is necessary to ensure safe operations," but a spokeswoman declined to elaborate. Also on Sunday, a Southwest spokeswoman declined to comment on the specifics of the probe but said its quality hasn't been hurt.
In an email response, an NTSB spokesman said the board relies on social media since many journalists use Twitter because "it is instantaneous and often meets their deadlines." The statement called it a valuable tool "to inform the media and the general public about the status of accident investigations."
The Southwest probe highlights the dramatic procedural and attitude changes already embraced by Southwest's safety team in this new era.
Dennis Post, the airline's senior accident investigator, told the same Vancouver conference that the prevalence of Twitter and videos taken by passengers using cellphones has drastically altered the way Southwest begins examining in-flight emergencies.
"Our passengers are our first investigators," Mr. Post said, calling them "on-scene reporters" eager to share information about all types of events.
Every day, he added, "we have teams pulling everything we can off social media" in order to create a novel warning system about unusual events throughout Southwest's nationwide network.
In the event of a crash, Mr. Logan said aircraft makers and many other airlines resort to the same Internet-savvy tactics.
But he worries that the resulting flurry of tweets and videos could end up confusing, rather than enlightening, most people.
"The last thing we need is a [public relations] war in the midst of a significant event," he told accident investigators last week.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324591204579035231353396714.html
Friction between federal aviation regulators and crash investigators threatens to impede a probe into a Southwest Airlines Inc. landing accident last month in New York, according to the carrier's safety officials.
The July 22 accident at LaGuardia Airport, which resulted in more than a handful of injuries but no fatalities, underscores growing tension between experts at the National Transportation Safety Board, responsible for uncovering the causes of accidents, and regulators at the Federal Aviation Administration interested in swiftly punishing pilots or bringing civil-enforcement actions against airlines in the wake of a crash.
That inherent conflict is now exacerbated, according to industry and government-safety experts, by the growing importance of social media in disseminating air-safety information. As a result, many airline officials increasingly feel trapped between competing demands for ever faster releases of information, coming from passengers as well as different parts of the government and even their own top executives.
Escalating public pressure for nearly instantaneous details about airliner incidents and accidents has shaken up the previously staid, traditional world of accident investigations. The safety board's leaders increasingly are turning to Twitter to rush out details of significant findings-sometimes before advising on-site investigators of impending messages.
Those unconventional announcements in turn are prompting the FAA and industry players to speed up their internal investigations and responses.
The LaGuardia situation "is a good example of the multitude of information requests that come into the airline" after a typical crash or major incident, according to Timothy Logan, Southwest's senior risk-management official. Even before investigators from the safety board had completed their preliminary inquiry, he said, regulators from a number of different offices within the FAA already were seeking some of the same information from the carrier.
"I'm not sure it serves anybody's purpose," said Mr. Logan, because it wasn't coordinated properly and in any event, "the safety investigation should take precedence." FAA officials helping the NTSB on investigations are prohibited from working on potential enforcement cases.
About a week after the LaGuardia accident, Mr. Logan told an international safety conference last week in Vancouver, British Columbia, one part of the agency asked Southwest for information related to the plane's "black boxes," or onboard data and voice recorders.
"I haven't even seen it yet, how am I going to give it to you?" he recalled responding. The FAA is barred from using cockpit-voice recordings for enforcement.
"We're in the middle" of the tussle, Mr. Logan told the conference, because there is "certain information we're told we can't provide" to the FAA.
Calling the situation "very frustrating," he said "we need to get this worked out" to avoid broader delays and complications that could affect investigations of many other commercial-aviation accidents.
"We have four different parts of the agency coming at us" at the same time, Mr. Logan told a handful of attendees at the conference after his prepared remarks.
Pilot-union leaders at Southwest have privately expressed the same general complaints to the FAA, according to people familiar with the details.
Ten of the 149 people aboard the Southwest Boeing 737 were injured when the plane landed on its front wheels at LaGuardia, causing the nose gear to collapse and substantially damaging other parts of the aircraft. The high-profile accident temporarily closed the busy runway.
The captain of Southwest Flight 345, arriving from Nashville, took the unusual step of taking over the controls during the last 400 feet of the descent, and investigators are now trying to determine if she throttled back the engines prematurely. The plane switched to a nose-down position in the final four seconds of flight.
The NTSB has said it found no airplane malfunctions that could have caused the botched landing, though investigators haven't yet disclosed their conclusions.
The FAA said it is "supporting the NTSB and examining our areas of responsibility to determine if any near-term action is necessary to ensure safe operations," but a spokeswoman declined to elaborate. Also on Sunday, a Southwest spokeswoman declined to comment on the specifics of the probe but said its quality hasn't been hurt.
In an email response, an NTSB spokesman said the board relies on social media since many journalists use Twitter because "it is instantaneous and often meets their deadlines." The statement called it a valuable tool "to inform the media and the general public about the status of accident investigations."
The Southwest probe highlights the dramatic procedural and attitude changes already embraced by Southwest's safety team in this new era.
Dennis Post, the airline's senior accident investigator, told the same Vancouver conference that the prevalence of Twitter and videos taken by passengers using cellphones has drastically altered the way Southwest begins examining in-flight emergencies.
"Our passengers are our first investigators," Mr. Post said, calling them "on-scene reporters" eager to share information about all types of events.
Every day, he added, "we have teams pulling everything we can off social media" in order to create a novel warning system about unusual events throughout Southwest's nationwide network.
In the event of a crash, Mr. Logan said aircraft makers and many other airlines resort to the same Internet-savvy tactics.
But he worries that the resulting flurry of tweets and videos could end up confusing, rather than enlightening, most people.
"The last thing we need is a [public relations] war in the midst of a significant event," he told accident investigators last week.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324591204579035231353396714.html
Last edited by lomapaseo; 27th Aug 2013 at 04:11.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
747Flyer: Sorry, no clue. Burbank was before my time here and I don't know if that aircraft had a HUD or not. As for the LGA incident? Don't know, not going to guess. The HUD is not required to be used during every approach, and since this was a visual approach, don't think too many Capts would bring it down. (For those not familiar, on SWA jets, HUD is installed only on the Captains side.
Boeingtanker - that is a real shame that your Captains don't use it more. It is IDEAL for a visual approach - esp. to an airport like LGA. Your only a/c that did not have HUDs were the -200s. Burbank had a HUD - and it was stowed. Just a crying shame. Sort of like the days of deactivated autobrakes/VNAV/LNAV.
747Flyer: Sorry, no clue. Burbank was before my time here and I don't know if that aircraft had a HUD or not. As for the LGA incident? Don't know, not going to guess. The HUD is not required to be used during every approach, and since this was a visual approach, don't think too many Capts would bring it down. (For those not familiar, on SWA jets, HUD is installed only on the Captains side.
Boeingtanker - that is a real shame that your Captains don't use it more. It is IDEAL for a visual approach - esp. to an airport like LGA. Your only a/c that did not have HUDs were the -200s. Burbank had a HUD - and it was stowed. Just a crying shame. Sort of like the days of deactivated autobrakes/VNAV/LNAV.
Last edited by 747Flyer; 27th Aug 2013 at 20:58.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: chicago
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wow...wonder when we will get confirmation.
and you do not need a hud for a visual apch in broad vfr daylight.
LGA is not a bastard airport...thousands of flights land routinely on 7000' runways using straight in, curved or slightly offset apchs.
rather land at LGA than a number of airports in the country.
and you do not need a hud for a visual apch in broad vfr daylight.
LGA is not a bastard airport...thousands of flights land routinely on 7000' runways using straight in, curved or slightly offset apchs.
rather land at LGA than a number of airports in the country.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: .
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
747Flyer: not 100% true about only our -200's not having HUDs. We have -700's today that do not have HUDs. I know of 4, may be more, they were purchased/leased on the used market. Again, I don't know if the Burbank jet (which was a -300 and about 15 years old at the time of the incidnt) had it or not. My understanding is that the original -700's did not have them, they were added later and I don't know when that took place.
Last edited by Boeingtanker; 28th Aug 2013 at 03:13.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Just heard the captain was fired and the (Air Trans) FO received ground school and a sim ride.
They were fired in August 2000:
Southwest Fires Pilots for Burbank Crash Landing
B U R B A N K, Calif., Aug. 3
Southwest Airlines fired the pilot and co-pilot of a 737 jetliner that skidded off a runway and onto a street during a botched landing at Burbank Airport in March.
Company officials declined to discuss the reason for the dismissals.
'All I can do is verify that the pilots have been terminated', Southwest Airlines spokeswoman Linda Rutherford said Wednesday. 'We can't give any other details because the National Transportation Safety Board investigation is still pending.'
B U R B A N K, Calif., Aug. 3
Southwest Airlines fired the pilot and co-pilot of a 737 jetliner that skidded off a runway and onto a street during a botched landing at Burbank Airport in March.
Company officials declined to discuss the reason for the dismissals.
'All I can do is verify that the pilots have been terminated', Southwest Airlines spokeswoman Linda Rutherford said Wednesday. 'We can't give any other details because the National Transportation Safety Board investigation is still pending.'
And, when the plane finally came to rest and the sirens of approaching crash trucks filled the cockpit, [the captain], a veteran airline captain with 11,000 hours flying time, declared, "Well, there goes my career."
In his interview with the NTSB, [the captain] attributed the "high and hot" landing to a strong tail wind and the fact that air traffic controllers had instructed him to maintain an air speed of at least 230 knots during an earlier part of the approach.
He and [the FO] also indicated they had been concerned about an airliner that was landing ahead of them. [the FO] said that just before landing he noticed they seemed to be overtaking the other plane and worried that it might not clear the runway before they touched down.
[the FO] said that on approach he had been concerned that the plane seemed to be high and traveling faster than it should have been, but said nothing to the captain.
Indeed, [the FO] seemed almost frozen as the accident unfolded, acknowledging that he had not read out a checklist or announced altitude points at prescribed points as the plane neared the runway.
"Asked if he had made the callouts on the accident flight, he said, 'No, I don't think so. Not sure. I'd be surprised if I did,' " the interview report said.
He and [the FO] also indicated they had been concerned about an airliner that was landing ahead of them. [the FO] said that just before landing he noticed they seemed to be overtaking the other plane and worried that it might not clear the runway before they touched down.
[the FO] said that on approach he had been concerned that the plane seemed to be high and traveling faster than it should have been, but said nothing to the captain.
Indeed, [the FO] seemed almost frozen as the accident unfolded, acknowledging that he had not read out a checklist or announced altitude points at prescribed points as the plane neared the runway.
"Asked if he had made the callouts on the accident flight, he said, 'No, I don't think so. Not sure. I'd be surprised if I did,' " the interview report said.
As a footnote, from what was later posted here on PPRuNe, the Burbank crash captain was subsequently allowed to retire with full benefits and the FO got his job back largely due to the efforts of the pilots' union SWAPA:
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...tml#post541680
Last edited by Airbubba; 27th Aug 2013 at 22:57.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: .
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Desert185: haven't seen anything official one way or another on their current status, but rumors run the full range from terminated to already back flying for both. Not believing any of it til I see them back on the schedule or removed from the seniority list. Haven't seen either yet.
Landing Video
Hey Everyone:
I looked through this thread and did not see this video.
New video of the Southwest plane crash landing | Video | 7online
It shows the actual "no-flare" and touchdown.
There seems to be a definite pitch change in the last moments before the nose gear hits.
I looked through this thread and did not see this video.
New video of the Southwest plane crash landing | Video | 7online
It shows the actual "no-flare" and touchdown.
There seems to be a definite pitch change in the last moments before the nose gear hits.
Last edited by Old Boeing Driver; 29th Aug 2013 at 01:27. Reason: Cahnge salutation
Desert 185 - "Just heard the captain was fired and the (Air Trans) FO received ground school and a sim ride".
Perhaps you should refrain from posting all of your post retirement gossip.
Old Boeing Driver
References?
So, what is the "correct" information that you would like to post. With references, of course.
Regards.
References?
So, what is the "correct" information that you would like to post. With references, of course.
Regards.
With references, of course.