Southwest KLGA gear collapse.
Very surprised to read that SWA appears to have no plan for how to handle
such an event.
such an event.
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Is there a SWA culture of slamming the plane down? Or are there some other American cowboy cultural attributes at play here?
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Even Naval Aviation emphasized not landing on the nose gear, especially the T-28.
I've flown on Southwest quite a few times as a passenger and absolutely love them. As a pilot I noted they are rather quick in the taxi arena, but then I'd delay my final configuration as long as practicable during CAVU conditions in order to save fuel so I'm hardly above criticism.
I've flown on Southwest quite a few times as a passenger and absolutely love them. As a pilot I noted they are rather quick in the taxi arena, but then I'd delay my final configuration as long as practicable during CAVU conditions in order to save fuel so I'm hardly above criticism.
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Is there a SWA culture of slamming the plane down? Or are there some other American cowboy cultural attributes at play here?
As for cowboys, they can be. Those guys are paid to get from block to block as quickly as possible. They're not paid to go around, taxi slowly, are take the long way home. Some guys really push the limits and those that don't are chastised by the other pilot. The bang out lots of flights, push themselves hard, and push their airplanes hard.
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Also surprising was Nick Bradbury's report that a law enforcement officer requested that he stop taking videos when he was outside the plane. There is no justification for that unless the person is located in a way that interferes with rescue personnel.
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Floating? Never push: never keep pulling back and increasing the angle of attack: better to drop a wing and nudge a main wheel onto the ground and activate the spoilers, works for me: or G/A. It's not the first and not the last, sadly. I believe it happened to a B767 at Newark around 1998?
The scariest thing I ever saw, sat at the holding point LTN RW26, was a BAE146 (which has no TR's) floating, pushing, landing on the nose wheel, bouncing back on to the main-wheels, bouncing back onto the nose wheel (which has no brakes) bouncing back onto the main wheels etc. etc. It stopped before the end, just, and there was an agricultural aroma in the air.
Much is taught about how not to get into the poo: perhaps some more should be taught about how to escape from the more common poo traps.
The scariest thing I ever saw, sat at the holding point LTN RW26, was a BAE146 (which has no TR's) floating, pushing, landing on the nose wheel, bouncing back on to the main-wheels, bouncing back onto the nose wheel (which has no brakes) bouncing back onto the main wheels etc. etc. It stopped before the end, just, and there was an agricultural aroma in the air.
Much is taught about how not to get into the poo: perhaps some more should be taught about how to escape from the more common poo traps.
Also surprising was Nick Bradbury's report that a law enforcement officer requested that he stop taking videos when he was outside the plane. There is no justification for that unless the person is located in a way that interferes with rescue personnel.
More to the point it seems likely that there was something better for the policeman to do than harass passengers.
It is not unusual in a serious emergency for police to go into "law enforcement" mode when they should be in "serve and protect" mode. Police airwings are not immune either.
This isn't going to help getting people to leave their stuff
I may look like a dork, but what the hell, everything I own is a tool, not a fashion statement - who cares.
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Quote:
Perhaps we should ask when will the riff raff learn to "turn off all
electronic devices for landing" (or isn't a mobile phone with camera an
electronic device?)
Perhaps we should ask when will the riff raff learn to "turn off all
electronic devices for landing" (or isn't a mobile phone with camera an
electronic device?)
/sarcasm on
Obviously, the use of this electronic device negatively influenced the landing, which is why one is supposed to have them off until the PA announcement is made that they can be turned back on.
/sarcasm off
Obviously, the use of this electronic device negatively influenced the landing, which is why one is supposed to have them off until the PA announcement is made that they can be turned back on.
/sarcasm off
Last edited by NSEU; 29th Jul 2013 at 23:07.
Those guys are paid to get from block to block as quickly as possible.
They're not paid to go around, taxi slowly, are take the long way home. Some guys really push the limits and those that don't are chastised by the other pilot. The bang out lots of flights, push themselves hard, and push their
airplanes hard.
They're not paid to go around, taxi slowly, are take the long way home. Some guys really push the limits and those that don't are chastised by the other pilot. The bang out lots of flights, push themselves hard, and push their
airplanes hard.
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Those guys are paid to get from block to block as quickly as possible. They're not paid to go around, taxi slowly, are take the long way home
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SWA pilots fly a lot of trips per day so most do not make basic errors like landing on the nose gear. She did but do not put all down because of one incident. I will fly on them anytime.
so most do not make basic errors like landing on the nose gear.
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Perhaps this is why some people insist on grabbing their carry-on items when evacuating a plane:
The Crash Landing of Southwest 345 | Nick Bradbury
The Crash Landing of Southwest 345 | Nick Bradbury
The next day Southwest delivered our bags to our hotel but my carry-on wasn’t among them. It arrived a day later – without my MacBook Pro. That, along with an Apple TV and a Lightning cable, had been stolen from my bag. Southwest has agreed to reimburse me for these items once I provide proof that I purchased them (no problem, I have receipts). They claim the items weren’t stolen but were more likely “misplaced” by someone sent on board to retrieve carry-on bags.
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post7965086
Squawk 7700's post is well worth reading, and pondering.
Possible "unintended outcomes" of FOQA programs? Standard human reaction, I'd guess.
Organizational point of emphasis: "We have to stop doing X."
Human response: "OK, I'll start doing Y since it reduces the odds of doing X ..."
Is there some inherent British or European stupidity that induces posts like this, or was it just one person and a brain not firing on all cylinders at the time the "submit reply" button was selected?
Indeed. Nothing like 48" (52.5 at the sea level stop) of manifold pressure during a dawn launch.
Squawk 7700's post is well worth reading, and pondering.
Possible "unintended outcomes" of FOQA programs? Standard human reaction, I'd guess.
Organizational point of emphasis: "We have to stop doing X."
Human response: "OK, I'll start doing Y since it reduces the odds of doing X ..."
Or are there some other American cowboy cultural attributes at play here?
Even Naval Aviation emphasized not landing on the nose gear, especially the T-28.
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Wrong! At SWA they get paid extra for every minute that they over block starting at 5 minutes past block time. Also go arounds are encouraged. If not configured, on speed, and stabilized at 1000 ft then the PM is supposed to tell the PF to go around. IF LGA was pilot error then it was due to the crew not following procedures. However the full NTSB report is not even close to being out so the exact cause is unknown at this time.
As for their 1000' gate - if they went around every time they were unstable, they'd be late more often than on time.
Would you like me to pull my references directly from their contract?
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So we can expect to see this sort of thing from SWA more often? I take it that go-arounds are for wimps and pudknockers and that real pilots get it on the ground first time every time. Its good to see that the lessons from the past 30 years only need to be taught in classrooms and not applied to line operations.
Add to that their 25 minute turns. Any hiccup during the day rolls the delay to the last few legs so you've got guys trying to make up time as well.
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SWA pilots fly a lot of trips per day so most do not make basic errors like landing on the nose gear. She did but do not put all down because of one incident. I will fly on them anytime.
Infielders who've fielded 1000s of grounders still muff the routine ball. You guys get into car accidents and you guys drive over the speed limit. These are humans you're talking about.
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Pilots also know the nose gear will not support the entire weight of the landing so we make sure the main gear touches down first.
She landed on the nose gear so will have to justify it.
She landed on the nose gear so will have to justify it.