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Lionair plane down in Bali.

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Lionair plane down in Bali.

Old 13th Apr 2013, 10:06
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If it undershot 09, that's a water impact along way from the threshold. Sadly, Lion have a massive systemic problem at all levels but once again, its the Indonesian regulators that have failed in their duty to Audit this mob..corruption hits the mark every time. Lion should have had their AOC pulled years ago.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 10:11
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Possibly another Korean Air situation with the insures coming up ? ie Get some EXPERIENCED expats in the cockpit or no more coverage.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 10:15
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If it undershot 09, that's a water impact along way from the threshold. Sadly, Lion have a massive systemic problem at all levels but once again, its the Indonesian regulators that have failed in their duty to Audit this mob..corruption hits the mark every time. Lion should have had their AOC pulled years ago.
exactly. Since they are all alive, now I can tell, (call me crazy or nasty), but I am happy this story will open an investigation and point the lights on this airline...it had to happen soon or later anyway.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 10:19
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I believe it was an overrun from 27. There's no way it undershot 09... There is so much coral poking out of the sea on final it woulda been ripped to pieces... Not to mention the crew not knowing what to do. Heard FO was P2F from Holland... Even if it was a mechanical issue or due to a severe tailwind caused by windshear, my opinion on the P2F issue still stands.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 10:20
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This page has an overview of B737 incidents and accidents. Indonesian airlines and Lion Air specifically are listed quite a few times.
PERFORMANCE REFERENCE HANDBOOK 737

From avherald
Lionar B738 at Denpasar on Apr 13th 2013, overran runway and came to stop in sea
Lionair B734 at Pontianak on Dec 30th 2012, runway excursion on landing
Lion B734 at Pontianak on Nov 1st 2012, overran runway on landing
Lionair MD90 at Jakarta on Mar 9th 2009, departed runway on landing
Lionair B739 at Pekanbaru on Feb 14th 2011, runway excursion on landing
Lionair B739 at Pekanbaru on Feb 15th 2011, overran runway on landing
Lionair B734 at Pontianak on Nov 2nd 2010, overran runway on landing
Lionair B734 at Pontianak on Nov 2nd 2010, overran runway on landing

<O'Leary mode on>Lion Air does operate a lot of flights per day<MOL mode off>

Last edited by 1stspotter; 13th Apr 2013 at 10:33.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 10:23
  #26 (permalink)  
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As Pucka says, "If it undershot 09, that's a water impact along way from the threshold" and looking at the sat image of the undershoot it is difficult to work out where and how. If it was, it was some undershoot!

Braviator - that does not make sense! "I believe it was an overrun from 27. There's no way it undershot 09. There is so much coral poking out of the sea on final it woulda been ripped to pieces." - same place??
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 10:28
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Seeing the metars:
Metars:
WADD 130830Z 10008KT 9999 SCT017 29/25 Q1007 NOSIG
WADD 130800Z 10009KT 9999 FEW017CB SCT017 30/26 Q1007 NOSIG
WADD 130730Z 15006KT 110V270 9999 FEW017CB SCT017 30/25 Q1007 NOSIG
WADD 130700Z 09006KT 9999 BKN017 30/26 Q1007 NOSIG
WADD 130630Z 16003KT 090V190 9999 BKN017 30/25 Q1007 NOSIG
WADD 130600Z 18007KT 9999 BKN016 30/25 Q1007 NOSIG
WADD 130530Z 18008KT 9999 SCT015 FEW016CB 30/26 Q1008 NOSIG
WADD 130500Z 19005KT 150V210 9999 BKN015 30/25 Q1008 NOSIG

and the wind, there is not at first a microburst, gust or squall in my mind. How far away is wind mast from treshold?

Tim
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 10:36
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@ BOAC... If it undershot runway 27 it would have ended up on the Freeway... If it undershot 09 it would have ended up in the sea, in a million pieces. So it wasn't an undershoot on 09, it landed 27 and looks like if anything it rolled through and ended up in the sea at the end of 27 (which, yes, would happen to be final of 09...) Make sense now?
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 10:40
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The way Lion Air is operating...they have the odds stacked against them. Glad to see that everyone survived (apparently), this could have ended so much worse.

I'm a free market economics kind of person, but I have to admit, the older I get, the more I feel some of the basic assumptions are flawed. People simply aren't rational. And consumers often don't know what they buy. For outfits like Lion Air, eventually insurance companies might put their foot down and require certain conditions to be met (assuming they are rational), but hell yes, I'd sure like to see more government oversight for outfits like Lion Air, it could add an extra layer of safety, before it's too late (again assuming bureaucrats are rational).

Last edited by deptrai; 13th Apr 2013 at 10:47.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 10:40
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Wow crazy they really need to beef up their standard if it was indeed pilot errorfar too many times for Lionair, it really can`t be bad luck systematic bad flight crew and training, there are no shorts cuts to being a good pilot, hard work, experience, planning and relentless detail to flight regardless as someone mentioned Lionair has lots of flights.

On another note i seem to see a pattern with 737 that have overshot runways they seem to breakup, this was covered a few years ago on al jazeera with 2 boeing employees whistle blowing on bad company practices on manufacturing and build, seems they were spot on, and please this is not an airbus vs boeing observation, i flew both and love both, each have their own qualities. - just saying as i see it -

Last edited by 320busdriver; 13th Apr 2013 at 10:43.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 10:50
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Picture of captain walking away from crash scene
https://twitter.com/ZulfikarOey/stat...191809/photo/1
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 10:50
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Just what I was thinking.

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Old 13th Apr 2013, 10:52
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Indonesian govt where about to relax the 250 hrs on type rule to allow Lion air to employ less experience ( pay to Fly) pilots . Think it may cost Lion air even more now to make that happen .
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 10:54
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AvHerald

Now saying it landed short while approaching 09:
Accident: Lionar B738 at Denpasar on Apr 13th 2013, came to stop in sea
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 11:01
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Ref Aviation Herald "Radar data confirm the aircraft was approaching runway 09 and suggest the aircraft was about 100 feet below a 3 degrees glidepath descending at 700 feet per minute at a speed between 126 and 135 knots over ground, descending through 200 feet MSL about 1nm short of the touch down zone and 0.6nm short of the sea wall."
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 11:05
  #36 (permalink)  
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Reuters quoting several sources saying it ditched on approach to 09

All passengers safe as Lion Air plane lands in water in Bali | Reuters
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 11:05
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Ahh can confirm 09 was in use. My bad! Still don't understand how it can happen.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 11:07
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A dutch news site mentions that the Captain announced an emergency landing shortly before the incident.

Last edited by djanello; 13th Apr 2013 at 11:08.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 11:07
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Does anybody have access to approach charts for WADD? What approaches are on offer there and what minima?
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 11:10
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I'm not smart enough to copy the chart but 09 has a VOR/DME only, 470' MDA, 091 inbound (QDM 087). Entirely overwater.
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