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Lionair plane down in Bali.

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Lionair plane down in Bali.

Old 13th Apr 2013, 14:06
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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@Flash8: Can you please post a link to the Kos report? I never read it.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 14:10
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Ahahah. I'm so glad you get to have the "experience vs. training" non-discussion in the rest of the world, too. You ever notice how it's always the low time guys who somehow cast the discussion in those terms? Listen, junior, no one is saying that training is not important or necessary. It's every bit as important and necessary as experience, which is every bit as important as not being a fool in the first place.

Now, personally, I think anyone who pays hundreds of thousands of dollars (or equivalent coinage) to get in to this industry is almost certainly a fool, but that's neither here nor threre...
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 14:20
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Kids with only a few hours on type and 6 landings under their belt have no place in the pointy end of any aircraft anywhere.
How does any pilot ever become experienced on type then?

As usual there are many potentially valid issues to come from this accident but they are lost in tidal waves of drivel.

'cldrvr' you are entitled to your opinion but I don't think it is valid. The facts regarding EZY and RYR do not support your allegations and engineering standards in RYR are first class. Training standards are widely held to be very good and the airline does not operate on a P2F basis. Stick to the matter in hand please.

Lionair, though, is P2F in it's purest form, is blacklisted by the EU and has a habit of bending aeroplanes. Maybe they just have a lot of bad luck. However, as yet we have no idea whether technical or other issues were a factor and any pontificating is baseless speculation at the moment.

Last edited by Torque Tonight; 13th Apr 2013 at 14:25.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 14:29
  #104 (permalink)  
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MODS request split P2F discussion off to a sep thread

Can we have one thread about the Lion Air incident and another about Catch 22 low timers and P2F please?

SGC
 
Old 13th Apr 2013, 14:35
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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How incredibly lucky that no lives were lost.

We hear and see so much tragedy these days, its welcome to see something where this isn't the case.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 14:42
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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I note this 737/800? broke apart at a point somewhere between the wing trailing edge & the horizontal stabilizer. There have been a number of incidents in the last few years,to B787, ie the Turkish at AMS where a similar break has occured. It is very useful for PAX to escape through these gaps but I do wonder if Boeing a/c are making a flimsy a/c?
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 14:50
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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When a plane crash position is after the end of the rwy, it seems obvious that is an overshoot and not undershoot...
Another expert in our midst. Just unbelievable isn't it
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 14:52
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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When a plane crash position is after the end of the rwy, it seems obvious that is an overshoot and not undershoot...
Are you sure it didn't crash before the beginning of the runway?
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 15:04
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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incidents in the last few years,to B787, ie the Turkish at AMS

It's a reflex now: if it's ****e it must be a 787 dreadliner.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 15:10
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Sounds like cr@p pilots at a cr@p airline
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 15:13
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Several Indonesian newssites report the first officer on this flight was Dutch citizen. That is likely as quite a few pilots from the Netherlands are flying with Lion Air. Most of them got their training at Stella Aviation. This company has contracts with Lion Air.

See http://www.gatra.com/nusantara-1/bal...ngurahrai.html


Also see LinkedIn for quite a few Dutch names.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 15:25
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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i was talking in general not about Lionair's case.
as i said, the crew will explain it.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 15:26
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Why is *anyone* here quoting news outlets??? FoxNews, Syndney Morning Herald, etc..

'An engine failed, thus a glide to the runway; all explained by a mayday call'

'Overshat, undershat, over-run, or Shat-under-runs'

There are obviously more than a few clowns in their mothers' basements here.

Funny, this used to be the Pprune.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 15:33
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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When a plane crash position is after the end of the rwy, it seems obvious that is an overshoot and not undershoot...
absolutely right, but nothing to do with this case as it ended up BEFORE the rwy in use.
Stella Aviation
aren't these the guys promoting MPL's a lot ?? Not that it is of any relevance to this case (for the moment)

Must say, this skipper moored his ship pretty nice alongside the embankment. At least in the last seconds he didn't run out of luck....that stone barrier doesn't seem to be very forgiving
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 15:34
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Sky News - typical journalism

Sky News in UK reporting the plane 'skid' into the sea and overshot the runway....once again Sky News proving they know nothing about everything.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 15:48
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Looking at the maps and the published photographs, it would appear the AC is at rest to the LHS of the foot of 09 or in other words to the North of the foot of 09.

If we are to believe it was an undershoot, surely the undershoot would still occur on centreline...
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 15:54
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Walnut
I note this 737/800? broke apart at a point somewhere between the wing trailing edge & the horizontal stabilizer. It is very useful for PAX to escape through these gaps but I do wonder if Boeing a/c are making a flimsy a/c?
I doubt anyone could escape through those "gaps". I also think it is preferable for the fuselage to be "flimsy" enough to absorb the energy of the impact and still stay relatively intact rather than transfer it all to the occupants.

For those wondering were the stab is only the RH half is missing as can be seen in image #2.






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Old 13th Apr 2013, 15:57
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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@ subsonicsubic

You can see the AC still bobbing about on one of the videos so this would account for it not being on the CL due to the action of the wind/waves.
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 16:11
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Sounds like cr@p pilots at a cr@p airline
Based on what factual evidence White Knight?
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Old 13th Apr 2013, 16:15
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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if they were 100ft below the glide slope and on a stable 700ft descent and crashed short of the run-way did they have a false capture of a ghost glide slope?

the automation let them fly into the sea without input from the pilots?

any ideas?
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