Glasgow Airport - JET 2 smoke in cockpit - emergency services called
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This isn't a LCC issue people. BA charge for exit seats as do Virgin. I see nobody questioning whether they do checks on people before selecting seats (whether they charge or not). And if someone sat in an exit who was not suitable the cabin crew would feel more comfortable moving seone who's paid a £12 supplement on easyJet compared to a legacy carrier or MEB3 airlines.
Do you not feel there would be more pressure on cabin crew if the pax was a gold tier frequently flyer/1K/Exec Club. I'm quite certain if it happened on a certain Middle East airline then the cabin crew would be disciplined. Afterall it tends to be those with status who get to select the exit rows particularly on US airlines.
I cringe reading some replies on here. I miss the days when it was mainly pilots. Not spotters/trolls/armchair CEOs! Just because you watch Aircrash Investigation does not mean you are a safety expert nor are you qualified to ammend or write airline SOPs.
Do you not feel there would be more pressure on cabin crew if the pax was a gold tier frequently flyer/1K/Exec Club. I'm quite certain if it happened on a certain Middle East airline then the cabin crew would be disciplined. Afterall it tends to be those with status who get to select the exit rows particularly on US airlines.
I cringe reading some replies on here. I miss the days when it was mainly pilots. Not spotters/trolls/armchair CEOs! Just because you watch Aircrash Investigation does not mean you are a safety expert nor are you qualified to ammend or write airline SOPs.
Last edited by fa2fi; 22nd Oct 2012 at 16:23.
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I was on the jet2 757 from Glasgow last Tuesday, sat in row 34, the row behind the over wing exits. The cabin steward certainly gave all the passengers sat in the exit seats very clear instructions of their role in an emergency and he then made sure there was no baggage on the floor in that area - in fact he had to make it crystal clear to one woman who wanted her handbag with her. There was no sales patter until after airborne and the seat belt signs were switched off. Only problem on our flight was a 'missing' passenger and a goosed apu.
Out of interest, how far is the drop from the flaps on a 737 to the deck?
Out of interest, how far is the drop from the flaps on a 737 to the deck?
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JSL had a very valid point. Maybe it is worthwhile for the cabin crew to include in their safety brief that the overwing exits have no slides and that pax should slide of the flaps.
We don't know if Jean has read the Safety Instructions or not. If she hasn't then that is not so smart. If she has, and hasn't understood them then it should be investigated why people don't understand them.
Running In, I do get the impression that you are trolling. If you really work onboard an aircraft as you say, then you should be aware that there is no hope in hell that a member of cabin crew is going to get anywhere in the cabin apart from their evacuation position. In the Jet2 case, you got 189 people trying to evacuate an aircraft and a person will NOT be able to go against the flow of people who are trying to exit the jet.
We don't know if Jean has read the Safety Instructions or not. If she hasn't then that is not so smart. If she has, and hasn't understood them then it should be investigated why people don't understand them.
1.) If I'm sat 5 rows from a door and I can't get out because there are people who are either in shock or don't know what to do in the way I don't care if they read the card. I want them out of the way and I expect the crew to make sure that is happening. That isn't the time to get into a debate about rights and responsibilities in modern society, not while my duty free is melting.
i.e the crew have a responsibility to cater for those who are a problem for the sake of everyone else.
i.e the crew have a responsibility to cater for those who are a problem for the sake of everyone else.
Last edited by CEJM; 22nd Oct 2012 at 17:08.
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UKpaxman
Out of curiosity, are you 100% sure about that?
Roe 34 sounds an awfully long way back for an overwing exit on a 757, are you sure it wasn't the configuration with no overwing exits but emergency exits just aft of the wing (naturally slide equipped I presume...)?
Not saying you're wrong, but curious. Of course, if it is the no-overwing-exit configuration, it does just go to show rather that even self-determinedly 'bright' passengers who know what they're doing can be led astray by their own preconceptions - rather than the precise details of what's actually on the safety card ;-).
Roe 34 sounds an awfully long way back for an overwing exit on a 757, are you sure it wasn't the configuration with no overwing exits but emergency exits just aft of the wing (naturally slide equipped I presume...)?
Not saying you're wrong, but curious. Of course, if it is the no-overwing-exit configuration, it does just go to show rather that even self-determinedly 'bright' passengers who know what they're doing can be led astray by their own preconceptions - rather than the precise details of what's actually on the safety card ;-).
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Ukpaxman
Going off the flaps is roughly the same as going down a slide in a children's playground, a drop of about twelve feet with a 40 degree incline.
You would arrive in the ground quite fast but a lot better than the alternative.
You would arrive in the ground quite fast but a lot better than the alternative.
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On the one hand in this thread there are posters, mainly passengers but a few CC saying in reality the evacuation procedures are flawed, and on the other there a few saying that its nothing to do with manufacturers or airlines, its the passengers who are a problem. Maybe you should find another set of passengers.
With the demo, we have a very short time to get as much information across as we can and this is not, as suggested, to prevent delays on reaching the threshold! It's because the longer you babble on and on, the more people you lose as their attention starts to wander. That's why crew have to be trained to adapt quickly to changing circumstances and the SOP makers have to be willing to change or tweak procedures when someone ends up standing on the wing looking for a non existent slide.
Unfortunately, short of forcing people to watch 12 hours of Aircrash Investigation prior to every flight, no amount of safety procedures will remove the biggest danger to any successful evacuation. Complacency will always win.
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The problem is that it doesn't make sense at all. You expect something from the crew which is physically impossible.
So I take it that may you ever find yourself in the situation described in my earlier post, that you quite happily sit there and watch your Toblerone (or god forbid worse) melt?
So I take it that may you ever find yourself in the situation described in my earlier post, that you quite happily sit there and watch your Toblerone (or god forbid worse) melt?
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Originally Posted by Running_In
The cabin crew are responsible for ensuring the flow of people off the aircraft.
Last edited by jetset lady; 22nd Oct 2012 at 18:11.
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Here ya go Mr In.
So you agree.
Main Entry: irrational [ih-rash-uh-nl]
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: illogical, senseless
Synonyms: aberrant, absurd, brainless, cockamamie, crazy, delirious, demented, disconnected, disjointed, distraught, fallacious, flaky*, foolish, freaky, incoherent, injudicious, insane, invalid, kooky, loony, mad, mindless, nonsensical, nutty, off-the-wall, preposterous, raving, reasonless, ridiculous, silly, sophistic, specious, stupid, unreasonable, unreasoning, unsound, unstable, unthinking, unwise, wacky*, wild, wrong
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: illogical, senseless
Synonyms: aberrant, absurd, brainless, cockamamie, crazy, delirious, demented, disconnected, disjointed, distraught, fallacious, flaky*, foolish, freaky, incoherent, injudicious, insane, invalid, kooky, loony, mad, mindless, nonsensical, nutty, off-the-wall, preposterous, raving, reasonless, ridiculous, silly, sophistic, specious, stupid, unreasonable, unreasoning, unsound, unstable, unthinking, unwise, wacky*, wild, wrong
poor jean
i assume all the A320 family have o/w exit slides incl 318's?
i did always knew 320's had them.
737's NG have upward hinging escape hatches as you know, where as
classic 737's and the 320 family have a 50lb? hatch to chuck out the opening
(we used to put it on the seat...but not now, or do we?)
the height to slide down off the back of the lowered flaps on a 737 isn't as much as 12' feet surely as someone posted...?
the 757-200 in some versions not with UK airlines though (AA have them operating here to UK)
and all 757-300's (Thomas Cook have them) have overwing exits same as 737 classics. you chuck out the hatch here, er no you put it ON the seat.
But do these 757 variants have slides from the o/w as they are much higher than the 737?
THEY MUST HAVE SURELY?
(do not confuse with door 3l/r which has a drop-down door and slide.)
so you expect Jean to know all this too? lol
i sit often at exit doors and never do the CC fully brief me or brief me at all.
often i say i am ex crew/airline staff so they smile and giggle and later on drinks are freeflowing should i wish (i don't)
i always ask if i should be unfamiliar with the door mechanism to be shown that and often gasps of breath from all those around me that i dare mention the thought that in 10 minutes time we maybe rapidly trying to expedite squeezing our fat bums out of the small aperture to escape it being warmly singed...
it's like cancer oooh don't mention the C word except the C here is crash or chaos and we are all too often afraid or embarrassed to discuss....
i think some posts here have been excellent and hello again mrs jetset
i did always knew 320's had them.
737's NG have upward hinging escape hatches as you know, where as
classic 737's and the 320 family have a 50lb? hatch to chuck out the opening
(we used to put it on the seat...but not now, or do we?)
the height to slide down off the back of the lowered flaps on a 737 isn't as much as 12' feet surely as someone posted...?
the 757-200 in some versions not with UK airlines though (AA have them operating here to UK)
and all 757-300's (Thomas Cook have them) have overwing exits same as 737 classics. you chuck out the hatch here, er no you put it ON the seat.
But do these 757 variants have slides from the o/w as they are much higher than the 737?
THEY MUST HAVE SURELY?
(do not confuse with door 3l/r which has a drop-down door and slide.)
so you expect Jean to know all this too? lol
i sit often at exit doors and never do the CC fully brief me or brief me at all.
often i say i am ex crew/airline staff so they smile and giggle and later on drinks are freeflowing should i wish (i don't)
i always ask if i should be unfamiliar with the door mechanism to be shown that and often gasps of breath from all those around me that i dare mention the thought that in 10 minutes time we maybe rapidly trying to expedite squeezing our fat bums out of the small aperture to escape it being warmly singed...
it's like cancer oooh don't mention the C word except the C here is crash or chaos and we are all too often afraid or embarrassed to discuss....
i think some posts here have been excellent and hello again mrs jetset
Last edited by rog747; 22nd Oct 2012 at 19:01.
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Running in. Page 10, and you finally cracked.
Lest we forget, it is an Internet forum. Nothing more, nothing less.
Suggest a cup of tea in a darkened room, and chant the mantra
Nothing matters, nothing actually matters at all.
Lest we forget, it is an Internet forum. Nothing more, nothing less.
Suggest a cup of tea in a darkened room, and chant the mantra
Nothing matters, nothing actually matters at all.
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syn·o·nym *(sn-nm)
n.
A word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or other words in a language.
n.
A word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or other words in a language.
Last edited by Lord Spandex Masher; 22nd Oct 2012 at 18:56.
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JSL Remember Phoenix
Jet Set Lady.
I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, but you did say that you would change your instructions to your cabin crew because reading this thread made you realise that there was no slide over the wing on a Boeing 737. And yet you presumabaly have thousand of hours service. And you presumably have given those "one to one briefings" hundreds (at least times ) to those passengers sitting in emergency exit row seats, although I notice that none of the vociferous posters here have been able to answer my questions about them, i.e. what is the prescribed script, what responses do you look for, does it include all the pasengers in the exit rows and so on. In all my traveling years I can remember just one instance of a passenger being asked to move because in the judgement of the CC he was too infirm to handle the task of removing the window, and that was on a TWA flight in the states. Shows how long ago that was.
Your last post says that you are not responsible for getting the passengers out of the aircraft in the event of an emergency. Did you really mean that? Go back to the incident of the BA 744 at Phoenix a few years ago, where there were the same complaints of poor communication, panic, and immobile CC. Go back and look at the thread. So should some of the other posters here. We were assured that BA would be investigating. I'm not sure what the results were. But what I and others here are arguing is that the industry and people who work in it have got their heads in the sand, because its a problem that they do not want to face . And one day it will kill people.
I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, but you did say that you would change your instructions to your cabin crew because reading this thread made you realise that there was no slide over the wing on a Boeing 737. And yet you presumabaly have thousand of hours service. And you presumably have given those "one to one briefings" hundreds (at least times ) to those passengers sitting in emergency exit row seats, although I notice that none of the vociferous posters here have been able to answer my questions about them, i.e. what is the prescribed script, what responses do you look for, does it include all the pasengers in the exit rows and so on. In all my traveling years I can remember just one instance of a passenger being asked to move because in the judgement of the CC he was too infirm to handle the task of removing the window, and that was on a TWA flight in the states. Shows how long ago that was.
Your last post says that you are not responsible for getting the passengers out of the aircraft in the event of an emergency. Did you really mean that? Go back to the incident of the BA 744 at Phoenix a few years ago, where there were the same complaints of poor communication, panic, and immobile CC. Go back and look at the thread. So should some of the other posters here. We were assured that BA would be investigating. I'm not sure what the results were. But what I and others here are arguing is that the industry and people who work in it have got their heads in the sand, because its a problem that they do not want to face . And one day it will kill people.
swordfish
"Go back to the incident of the BA 744 at Phoenix e CC. Go back and look at the thread. So should some of the other posters here. We were assured that BA would be investigating. I'm not sure what the results were."
It wasn't just a BA investigation, FWIW here's the AAIB report:
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/1320.pdf
"Go back to the incident of the BA 744 at Phoenix e CC. Go back and look at the thread. So should some of the other posters here. We were assured that BA would be investigating. I'm not sure what the results were."
It wasn't just a BA investigation, FWIW here's the AAIB report:
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/1320.pdf
Last edited by wiggy; 22nd Oct 2012 at 19:14.
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Thanks Wiggy
Thanks for that link. But I think its instructive to go back to the thread here on pprune, because you will see much of the same attitudes then as are expressed here, except what is interesting is that passengers who decided to intervene and take charge of their own destiny were slagged off as cretins, even though their grasp of the seriousness of the situation was better than the CC's.
sf
sf