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Qantas A380 uncontained #2 engine failure

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Qantas A380 uncontained #2 engine failure

Old 15th Nov 2010, 17:42
  #961 (permalink)  
 
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Gretchen
Let me repeat my post from November 6, I'd like to uphold it even more fervently after such news .....

Quote:
To me the crew might have been very professional, at least the modern electronic way. But at the same time they must have been very, very lucky.
I'd rather be a little less proficient in handling ECAM, QRH, FCOM, bulletins and all that papaer cr@p and get my plane down as fast as possible.
I'd rather let the engineers and office-seat-cushion-warmer-pilots, as well as all their lawyers admonish me later that handling ECAM No49 according to bulletin No3458, paragraph 2, article 75 would have made their work to cover their asses a little easier, therefore they would dismiss me and sacrifice me as the sole responsible for this failure, rather than flying 2 hours with a badly hurt aircraft of which you have no idea what has been damaged in addition to the exploded donkey, the one that has just quit obeying your orders and some hydraulic driven devices that do no longer function!

I guess after realising and reflecting on the state of his plane, the captain will send a prayer or two to whoever he worships for the lucky escape and next time will do a very quick return!
Don't you wish YOU coulda' changed places with those 5 highly experienced (according to rumours) Captains/pilots ?? Just think how amazingly your snap decisions and command authority would have amazed all of us. What a bunch of dummies, compared to You were/are. I can just imagine the danger you face, navigating your keyboard thru the maze of difficulties, as you quickly determine the fate of you and those aboard your computer. If only those Qantas pilots had had a direct line to YOU to sort out their mess! What dolts they obviously were, as it certainly never occurred to them that fatal results to themselves and the poor souls behind the cockpit door could occur depending on the decisions made!
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 17:50
  #962 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting article. The story is getting murkier ...

Qantas A380 Investigation Goes Beyond Engines | AVIATION WEEK

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Old 15th Nov 2010, 17:57
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kwateow

The following if correct may explain why the EBHA to SPLR # 6 didn't operate. Could it be powered by AC Bus 2 which didn't receive an automatic power supply transfer therefore HYDs but no electrical power!
May also explain the loss of LEGRS power to ALTN brakes.

More Scuttlebutt from the Antipodes ( unverifiable source)


1. Bus #2 is supposedly automatically powered by Bus #1 in the event of Engine #2 failure - didn't happen.

2. Buses #3 & #4 will supposedly power Bus #2 in the even that the auto transfer from Bus #1 fails - didn't happen
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 18:59
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Could somebody cite official documentation on the following please;

-Fuel leak?

-Buses not switching over?

-Needing entire length on landing?


Word of mouth does not count.

News media articles that reference pprune posts that reference news media articles does not count.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 20:13
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Re post 962

And the severed wiring loom!!

That appears to be a reasonably thick gauge of metal in that region and it has been 'hacked' out of its position.

Mike
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 20:33
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Gretchenfrage

Your comments might be applicable for a light aircraft with simple systems, but perhaps not so relevant to a larger aircraft with a wing that had been "cluster bombed" ...

The A380 is slightly more complex (250,000 sensors .....)
Perhaps you don't appreciate Airbus philosophy
You probably don't understand ECAM
You may not have been taught CRM
You weren't there

Good on you for "throwing a stone" into the argument. It got the reaction you wanted.

Last edited by 35YearPilot; 15th Nov 2010 at 21:23.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 20:39
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If they can repair that wing, that would be amazing
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 20:47
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gretchen

I am aghast. The objective is to get the aircraft to land safely taking into account all the factors. The qantas crew did exacly that with no injuries, none whatsoever. They clearly took into account all the risk factors and did not take chances. Luck? no the crew had bad luck when the engine came apart. What they did after that did not rely on luck at all. Partly good design/engineering, and after that it was carefully considered and well executed..
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 20:48
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SafferNZ;

Thanks for posting the informative "cutaway" and accompanying photo. That information is worth at least 10K or more words.

P.S. The good stuff comes from the "Antipodes"!

mm43
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 20:52
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Fuel leak

Thanks for the photo!

We knew there was a massive fuel leak, and in such a way that the fuel was leaking overboard through the hole in the skin.
But now, looking at the picture, there must have been a massive internal leak as well, into the cavity behind the leading edge, there where all sorts of electrical wiring and (hot) bleed runs. Now, that's scary
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 21:07
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Gretchen, since this aircraft had no anti-skid, half its spoilers and only one reverser, have you considered what the possible consequences of a heavyweight, rushed, get-this-thing-on-the-ground-ASAP approach and landing may have been without fuel dumping and consideration of all the variables?

As it was, I believe the A/C landed overweight and blew some tyres. Possibly they decided to land overweight due to a developing C of G/fuel unbalance problem exacerbated by the inability to transfer fuel from the stab/wing tanks.

Whatever the reasons they did what they did, you can't argue with the successful outcome.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 21:27
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Nice there was a looong runway nearby

With the cg about to go out of limits and no adequate runway available, you'd have a nasty choice between an overrun at considerable speed or a ditching.

Perhaps not having reverse on the outers needs reconsideration. If you are faced with an overweight landing without slats, spoilers and anti-lock braking, who cares about FOD?
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 21:32
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Cool

Hi,

According to the Courier Mail, newer versions of the Trent 900 engine installed in aircraft built after the Qantas jet in question had redesigned bearing boxes to prevent the oil leaks that resulted in the engine explosion. Airbus sales chief John Leahy told the paper he wasn't sure if the three airlines that chose the Trent for their A380s, Qantas, Singapore and Lufthansa, knew about the changes and which engines had been upgraded
I hope this is a journo farce ... or ....
Even Toyota is better concerning warning about something wrong in their cars and make a recall for change or fix defectives parts ....
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 21:34
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Thanks for the photo!

We knew there was a massive fuel leak, and in such a way that the fuel was leaking overboard through the hole in the skin.
But now, looking at the picture, there must have been a massive internal leak as well, into the cavity behind the leading edge, there where all sorts of electrical wiring and (hot) bleed runs. Now, that's scary
Where in the photos did it show a massive internal fuel leak
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 21:40
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Thanks SafferNZ !
The severed wiring loom is located inside the tank.Pls correct me if i'm wrong.The only wiring inside an A380 tank is low voltage from the fuel
quantity indication system.So there must be at least one more area with
damage to a loom.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 21:57
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Unfortunately the Aussie media is using PPRUNE to do their usual quality investigation, however they could not differentiate a Connie from a Cessna, and they are simply doing their best scaremongering.

The latest I heard is that Airbus is under investigation as the failure of the engine should have been contained and the damage caused which lead to systems failure renders the product unsafe.

Let's be clear...you can attempt to contain a blade failure, you CANNOT contain disk failure....no matter who it is, McDonnell Douglas, Boeing, Airbus, etc....once a disk lets go, it will cause a LOT of damage, and systems will be rendered u/s.

I cast your mind back to this incident....it is a Boeing 767, and a disk let go on its CF6...it was lucky it was empty, doing an engine run....the shrapnel ruptured the wing and also damaged the keel beam....the leaking fuel ignited and melted part of the tail....had this aircraft been airborne, I shudder to think what would have happened...

Pictures: GE investigates cuase of AA 767 uncontained failure
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 22:17
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Media

As usual, they do their best to kill trees. (For pulp, you know...)

I'm waiting for them to campaign to bring back F/E's.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 22:45
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Originally Posted by jcjeant
I hope this is a journo farce ... or ....
Even Toyota is better concerning warning about something wrong in their cars and make a recall for change or fix defectives parts ....
The 'farce' is in questioning someone in the sales organization about a rapidly developing engineering/airworthiness/safety issue. It'd be like asking the salesman in your local Toyota showroom (to use your example further) what Toyota engineering was up to regarding recalls. Chances are he wouldn't know much more than you do.

Of course the people who do know the facts in cases like this generally keep their trap shut, so the journos are forced to go with the first senior sounding blabbermouth they can corner. Some of our PR statements after accidents and incidents have been positively cringeworthy, and a damned sight worse than saying "I don't know" which at least is honest if a bit useless-sounding. If he'd made some kind of "yes they all are retrofitted" statement when some are not people would (rightly) have been all over him...

Originally Posted by barit1
I'm waiting for them to campaign to bring back F/E's.
How many F/E's do you reckon you'd have to strap to the outside of an engine to contain a disk, I wonder...?
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 22:52
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Originally Posted by no-hoper
The severed wiring loom is located inside the tank.
Look again. The picture is taken from inside the tank, see hole in the 'ceiling', the wiring is outside, in the leading edge.

regards,
HN39
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 22:54
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We knew there was a massive fuel leak,
No *WE* don't.
Stop feeding the journos with facts not in hand.
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