Air India Near Death Incident
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Green Guard
Re:
From the original report at #1
Please point out the part which indicates “screeming (sic) like a madman”. Similarly, in the whole report I’m unable to find any reference to “a speed loss of ~ 80 kts”. Where did this come from?
Re:
if this incident surely happened do you understand that it was YOUR friend who greatly contributed to it ? Waiting for a speed loss of ~ 80 kts to start screeming like a madman.
I was preoccupied with watching the airspeed which was rapidly decreasing. I was sitting in the left jump seat (located just between the Captain and First Officer) and started announcing loudly “Airspeed!”, “Airspeed!” as the speed decreased below 200 knots. When there was no appropriate response and as the airspeed decreased below V2 I yelled as loud as I could “Lower the Nose!” “Maximum Power!”, “Maximum Power!” I undid my seat belt and was leaning forward to push the throttles to the firewall when the Commander beat me to it and fire-walled the throttles as he disconnected the autopilot and lowered the nose of the aircraft. The First Officer had placed her hand behind the throttles as they were moved forward but did not touch them. TOGA was NOT pushed. We were at V2 minus 15 knots and the stick shaker had activated along with stall buffet onset by the time the engines spooled.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South of Delta Papa November
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To clarify :-
1. I'm not an Air India employee.
2. I do not know the persons involved well, except at a professional level. If there's gossip behind this (e.g. the pilot who sent the email has an axe to grind with AI, something I got to know not so long ago), it is still not clear what exactly happened.
3. The incident was brought to light in an email sent to everyone except OPS involving a contractor, their pilot and the management.
4. The de-rostered pilot has denied anything of that sort every happened, and it was a full deck that day and it seems like everyone is on the same page except the one who sent the email.
5. The incident was reported so far out that there is little anyone can do at this stage to nail things down.
6. IN MY OPINION (please note the caps), by bringing up things like this especially when you have an issue which is turning ugly is highly unprofessional. You'd be better off, if you didn't report it at all, because you neglected your duty earlier by not reporting the incident, and now you bring it up in a way that its your word against the others, rather than have data.
7. Being a govt. run airline, it is not unusual to find ourselves at the butt of things no matter how ridiculous.
Again, like I said earlier, AI has room for improvement..... LOTS of it.... But its not as bad as its made to sound either. Give the devil its due. The maintenance is good (hey qantas has been blowin it all over), being a government run airline, documentation is taken care of well, pilots are treated well (remember this whole story of AI blowing up $10k/mnth for putting up expats in 5 star hotels), and no one is outside the envelope.
I would request that we close this thread out and open a new one if it is generic to AI rather than specifically for this incident, which is a "it might have happened, but we cant prove it".
Happy Landings.
1. I'm not an Air India employee.
2. I do not know the persons involved well, except at a professional level. If there's gossip behind this (e.g. the pilot who sent the email has an axe to grind with AI, something I got to know not so long ago), it is still not clear what exactly happened.
3. The incident was brought to light in an email sent to everyone except OPS involving a contractor, their pilot and the management.
4. The de-rostered pilot has denied anything of that sort every happened, and it was a full deck that day and it seems like everyone is on the same page except the one who sent the email.
5. The incident was reported so far out that there is little anyone can do at this stage to nail things down.
6. IN MY OPINION (please note the caps), by bringing up things like this especially when you have an issue which is turning ugly is highly unprofessional. You'd be better off, if you didn't report it at all, because you neglected your duty earlier by not reporting the incident, and now you bring it up in a way that its your word against the others, rather than have data.
7. Being a govt. run airline, it is not unusual to find ourselves at the butt of things no matter how ridiculous.
Again, like I said earlier, AI has room for improvement..... LOTS of it.... But its not as bad as its made to sound either. Give the devil its due. The maintenance is good (hey qantas has been blowin it all over), being a government run airline, documentation is taken care of well, pilots are treated well (remember this whole story of AI blowing up $10k/mnth for putting up expats in 5 star hotels), and no one is outside the envelope.
I would request that we close this thread out and open a new one if it is generic to AI rather than specifically for this incident, which is a "it might have happened, but we cant prove it".
Happy Landings.
Guest
Posts: n/a
another post75
Similarly, in the whole report I’m unable to find any reference to “a speed loss of ~ 80 kts”. Where did this come from
He mentioned speed of 230 kts. Right ?
Falling down "rapidly" to V2 minus 15. Right ?
Well, You stated to be one of big boys and girls on B-777.
Can you tell us here a V2 for MTOW on B-777?
Then deduct 15 and you must have something in vicinity of 150 kts.
SO if you friend is a LIER I would forgive him and let him fly again.
If he told the truth, I would never let him be part of any crew.
He wrote he noticed Auto throttle disconnected. So before waiting last nanosecond to scream like madman, why not calmly give a note to his friend the Captain in the seat that speed was falling and Auto Throttles were OFF?
Unless he hated that Captain so much, who always had to be a P1 ?!
sorry Boeing7xx, you've been mentioned before, here, as a defender of the this "story"..
are you trying to tell us, let's forget it ?
and it was a full deck that day and it seems like everyone is on the same page except the one who sent the email
Last edited by Green Guard; 7th Nov 2010 at 19:50.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: negative RAIM.....
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boeing7xx:
Still waiting for you to either do it here or PM me to deny with evidence all of what you believe I wrote is false.
Wow. That 131 pattern is a real long one by the looks of things for you to take so long to reply or write me as you assured us here on Pprune that you would....But hang on!!
Quote 1: "The 131 pattern is a long one."
Quote 2: "this topic was discussed in the monthly meeting..."
Quote 3: "I'm not an Air India employee."
Why were you doing the 131 pattern or attending meetings about this if you don't work for AI?? Ummmm.....who's the liar?
The expat Capt in question was WRONG to not report the event at his first possible chance. But to vehemently deny all of his claims and label him a liar shows the utter contempt, remarkable arrogance and severely dangerous "safety" (lucky) culture at AI.
B7xx may I suggest if you wish to stand it up, back it up. To deny all that I wrote as anything but truth makes you the liar. Pprune user "Beep" swapped a PM with me & I gave him further evidence of the corrupt and dangerous cesspit that is AI and haven't heard back from him either. But at least he had the integrity to seek an educated discussion with me. You seem to choose the head-in-the-sand tact (again?!).
So AI are putting out another circular. Well, knock me down with a feather! Archaic paperwork at AI? Who would've thought!? Will this circular be shown the same abhorrent lack of integrity, respect, well just plain "airmanship" as the many, many, many others? That is, like the one put out when I was at AI following a Boeing audit and crews were instructed, amongst things:
1. Do not fly in your pajamas.
2. Smoking in the cockpit is FORBIDDEN.
3. The cockpit door is to be kept LOCKED at all times (not deliberately unlocked for anyone to come and go).
4. Passengers, family, friends, etc ARE NOT permitted in the cockpit at ANY TIME.
5. Newspapers, sheets and table clothes ARE NOT to be used to blacken out the cockpit windows (not ever! and especially when in day VMC over Afghanistan's terrain!)
Since this circular was utterly ignored why the hell would anything else published make any damn difference? Then again, you're going to deny any of the above goes on for us, aren't you? (As assured by previous post).
The fact that a circular like this HAS to be published is disgusting enough.
PAXboy:
I trust with the knowledge you have and study you claim to have done you will NEVER be on a VT registered aircraft. As I have mentioned previously, I never will, as per other pilots with direct experience at that despicable mess. Tell your friends.
Still waiting for you to either do it here or PM me to deny with evidence all of what you believe I wrote is false.
Wow. That 131 pattern is a real long one by the looks of things for you to take so long to reply or write me as you assured us here on Pprune that you would....But hang on!!
Quote 1: "The 131 pattern is a long one."
Quote 2: "this topic was discussed in the monthly meeting..."
Quote 3: "I'm not an Air India employee."
Why were you doing the 131 pattern or attending meetings about this if you don't work for AI?? Ummmm.....who's the liar?
The expat Capt in question was WRONG to not report the event at his first possible chance. But to vehemently deny all of his claims and label him a liar shows the utter contempt, remarkable arrogance and severely dangerous "safety" (lucky) culture at AI.
B7xx may I suggest if you wish to stand it up, back it up. To deny all that I wrote as anything but truth makes you the liar. Pprune user "Beep" swapped a PM with me & I gave him further evidence of the corrupt and dangerous cesspit that is AI and haven't heard back from him either. But at least he had the integrity to seek an educated discussion with me. You seem to choose the head-in-the-sand tact (again?!).
So AI are putting out another circular. Well, knock me down with a feather! Archaic paperwork at AI? Who would've thought!? Will this circular be shown the same abhorrent lack of integrity, respect, well just plain "airmanship" as the many, many, many others? That is, like the one put out when I was at AI following a Boeing audit and crews were instructed, amongst things:
1. Do not fly in your pajamas.
2. Smoking in the cockpit is FORBIDDEN.
3. The cockpit door is to be kept LOCKED at all times (not deliberately unlocked for anyone to come and go).
4. Passengers, family, friends, etc ARE NOT permitted in the cockpit at ANY TIME.
5. Newspapers, sheets and table clothes ARE NOT to be used to blacken out the cockpit windows (not ever! and especially when in day VMC over Afghanistan's terrain!)
Since this circular was utterly ignored why the hell would anything else published make any damn difference? Then again, you're going to deny any of the above goes on for us, aren't you? (As assured by previous post).
The fact that a circular like this HAS to be published is disgusting enough.
PAXboy:
I trust with the knowledge you have and study you claim to have done you will NEVER be on a VT registered aircraft. As I have mentioned previously, I never will, as per other pilots with direct experience at that despicable mess. Tell your friends.
Last edited by TopTup; 7th Nov 2010 at 13:15.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boeing7xx
For someone who is “not an Air India employee” your post #131 of 3 Nov 2010 is remarkable. How would you know all this and write with such apparent certainty if you had not attended the meeting as an employee?
Could it be that you and Green Guard are Air India trolls, setting out to discredit the original report on the incident?
For someone who is “not an Air India employee” your post #131 of 3 Nov 2010 is remarkable. How would you know all this and write with such apparent certainty if you had not attended the meeting as an employee?
this topic was discussed in the monthly meeting, it appears there are a lot of other who read the posts here, but rarely discuss..
Nonetheless, actions have been initiated and changes have been made. the latest circular is supposed to carry out the speeds for delhi specifically for the ULH, considering that chicago is also operational now.
Here is what we were told :-
The pilot involved has been de-rostered and since this incident was brought to light very late (almost 4-5mnths after the incident) the records need to be checked to see what is the data available on this flight.
What was also made clear that this is not a witch hunt based on an email from someone who surely is disgruntled with the airline at present as his final settlement is still pending. a fair and thorough investigation will be conducted.
The only thing I'd like to say at this point in time is that incidents happen, and sometimes we are the witness, it is in the interest of the airline and the salary you get that you record them well in time rather than wait for 6 months to bring this up as an issue when your settlement is pending. It does look a bit biased then.
Nonetheless, actions have been initiated and changes have been made. the latest circular is supposed to carry out the speeds for delhi specifically for the ULH, considering that chicago is also operational now.
Here is what we were told :-
The pilot involved has been de-rostered and since this incident was brought to light very late (almost 4-5mnths after the incident) the records need to be checked to see what is the data available on this flight.
What was also made clear that this is not a witch hunt based on an email from someone who surely is disgruntled with the airline at present as his final settlement is still pending. a fair and thorough investigation will be conducted.
The only thing I'd like to say at this point in time is that incidents happen, and sometimes we are the witness, it is in the interest of the airline and the salary you get that you record them well in time rather than wait for 6 months to bring this up as an issue when your settlement is pending. It does look a bit biased then.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South of Delta Papa November
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. Air India has a lot of pilots through contractors like Parc & Rishworth. I am one of them. We're not employees, we're contractors there's a difference. For those who're in the same boat as I am, will know.
2. I have no reason to discredit the report. I wasn't remotely involved it in anyway.
3. I'm not sure AI is tech savvy enough to have trolls surf the internet looking for stuff, well they barely manage to get the roster out on time sometimes.
4. I have no idea who green guard is.
5. TopTup I've pretty much decided that unless you choose to open your mind up, it would be fruitless getting into a discussion with you. I would invite you to have an educated discussion on this rather than get into the literary equivalent of a fisticuff, since you've been bordering on extremes with your opinion. Unless there's rationalization I'm quite sure that you would stonewall anything I have to say.
6. TopTup : I never said that the incident never happened, what I stated was, the incident was reported so late in the day that there was little or no data to nail this one down.
7. There was a f/o and a cruise f/o also present in the flight deck when this supposedly happened besides the two captains in question.
8. The captain who reported this incident has done it at a time when he is facing a challenge with the airline.
9. With the start of 3 new ULH sectors, I hope AI performs well in the market.
2. I have no reason to discredit the report. I wasn't remotely involved it in anyway.
3. I'm not sure AI is tech savvy enough to have trolls surf the internet looking for stuff, well they barely manage to get the roster out on time sometimes.
4. I have no idea who green guard is.
5. TopTup I've pretty much decided that unless you choose to open your mind up, it would be fruitless getting into a discussion with you. I would invite you to have an educated discussion on this rather than get into the literary equivalent of a fisticuff, since you've been bordering on extremes with your opinion. Unless there's rationalization I'm quite sure that you would stonewall anything I have to say.
6. TopTup : I never said that the incident never happened, what I stated was, the incident was reported so late in the day that there was little or no data to nail this one down.
7. There was a f/o and a cruise f/o also present in the flight deck when this supposedly happened besides the two captains in question.
8. The captain who reported this incident has done it at a time when he is facing a challenge with the airline.
9. With the start of 3 new ULH sectors, I hope AI performs well in the market.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South of Delta Papa November
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If there's anything that you wish to take up with me, please PM, do not go on about it on the forum, its pretty juvenile. Let's stick to the topic here.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: HERE AND THERE
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry 7xx
May I disagree with you.
There's nothing juvenile about putting on a public forum about a potentially deadly situation, driven essentially by a corrupt system.
You failed to put any solid argument about the points TOPTUP clearly nailed. He mentioned about FACTS, not opinions or points of view.
It's frustating that you, as a involved with AI, looks more interested on carry on empty discussion or to defend the "undefensable".
I don't see you ever inclined in attacking the real problems.
There's nothing juvenile about putting on a public forum about a potentially deadly situation, driven essentially by a corrupt system.
You failed to put any solid argument about the points TOPTUP clearly nailed. He mentioned about FACTS, not opinions or points of view.
It's frustating that you, as a involved with AI, looks more interested on carry on empty discussion or to defend the "undefensable".
I don't see you ever inclined in attacking the real problems.
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: London, UK
Age: 44
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gentlemen...
Gentlemen...
My first time on this forum.
I have read these posts with abject (but not altogether surprising) unease. I fly for a European airline and on the many occasions that I've flown into BOM or DEL, I have certainly seen AI's procedures from close quarters.
From my perspective, the majority of AI pilots are extremely competent professionals. Indeed, some years ago in Seattle for a 744 refresher, I met a couple of AI gents...very competent indeed (procedurally and through demeanour). Every airline has "bad eggs", some more than others.
However, one thing I have seen is that AI takes shortcuts a lot. At my airline, we have extremely strict procedures on line assessment, review, refresher and procedure training. Based on what I know through discussions with AI commanders, FO's and SFO's, there is a "shortcut" mentality, permeating every area of flight crew assessment. I think this needs to be addressed.
I have met Capt. Bhasin and Capt. D. Anand before at BOM. Both struck me as being top-grade flyers. But of course, I don't work for AI, so don't know the internal politics!
My first time on this forum.
I have read these posts with abject (but not altogether surprising) unease. I fly for a European airline and on the many occasions that I've flown into BOM or DEL, I have certainly seen AI's procedures from close quarters.
From my perspective, the majority of AI pilots are extremely competent professionals. Indeed, some years ago in Seattle for a 744 refresher, I met a couple of AI gents...very competent indeed (procedurally and through demeanour). Every airline has "bad eggs", some more than others.
However, one thing I have seen is that AI takes shortcuts a lot. At my airline, we have extremely strict procedures on line assessment, review, refresher and procedure training. Based on what I know through discussions with AI commanders, FO's and SFO's, there is a "shortcut" mentality, permeating every area of flight crew assessment. I think this needs to be addressed.
I have met Capt. Bhasin and Capt. D. Anand before at BOM. Both struck me as being top-grade flyers. But of course, I don't work for AI, so don't know the internal politics!
Join Date: May 2001
Location: HERE AND THERE
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey PPS
Hummm, let's see: so you're an FO at an EU carrier (BA, LH maybe?) and then, you spend your layovers at Delhi or Mumbai having some beers with likes as some top AI management Capts Anand and etcetera...
Extremely credible.
And from what you chat with them and you noted at Boeing you concluded you're in front of great aviators, so the facts outlined by TopTup and others are just exagerations...
Son, please finish your PPL at your flying club in Ahmedabad before posting here...
Extremely credible.
And from what you chat with them and you noted at Boeing you concluded you're in front of great aviators, so the facts outlined by TopTup and others are just exagerations...
Son, please finish your PPL at your flying club in Ahmedabad before posting here...
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South of Delta Papa November
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fullforward : TopTup & I have been having a fairly meaningful discussion through PM's. Should you wish to join in, please PM TopTup. My respect for him has grown leaps and bounds in the short interaction that we've had. And I believe he & I are both on the same side of the issue, not against each other as is being portrayed here.
And If by saying you "don't see me attacking the real problem" is in reference to my points at the monthly meeting. I think I have my rights as a pilot to discuss issues which do not necessarily pertain to discussions on public forums.
And If by saying you "don't see me attacking the real problem" is in reference to my points at the monthly meeting. I think I have my rights as a pilot to discuss issues which do not necessarily pertain to discussions on public forums.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: HERE AND THERE
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice to know
...however, with all due respect, I still think the serious issues with the potential to directly affect lives should be publicly discussed in order to extend the benefits to the the widest number of people.
What TT raised on his previous posts are way too serious to be confined on private discussions.
What TT raised on his previous posts are way too serious to be confined on private discussions.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On a Wing!
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ 7xx-Quote in rgds to TT--"And I believe he & I are both on the same side of the issue, not against each other as is being portrayed here..."
Lolololololzzzz.....Lmfao
Did u try and 'cyber buy' him too the typical AI way...!! Or did u threaten the poor bloke....i hope neither.
TT--I one hundred percent endorse your views again. Been there and done that. Why does AI somehow remind me of the lead line in Hotel California...
PPS--If god didn't bless u with a great IQ,you should at least have let your experience(as an aviator,or otherwise..)teach you NOT to gatecrash into a forum with ONE previous post and a very very obvious initial for your pprune handle. If you are who I think you are,my cellphone should be ringing within 30 seconds....
Lolololololzzzz.....Lmfao
Did u try and 'cyber buy' him too the typical AI way...!! Or did u threaten the poor bloke....i hope neither.
TT--I one hundred percent endorse your views again. Been there and done that. Why does AI somehow remind me of the lead line in Hotel California...
PPS--If god didn't bless u with a great IQ,you should at least have let your experience(as an aviator,or otherwise..)teach you NOT to gatecrash into a forum with ONE previous post and a very very obvious initial for your pprune handle. If you are who I think you are,my cellphone should be ringing within 30 seconds....
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South of Delta Papa November
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
King on a wing & Full forward - Top Tup and I are having a meaningful discussion, which neither one of you seems to be interested in. Slander is easy, and please go ahead... its your right! However, should a moment of sanity prevail, please PM Top Tup and get an update.
King on a wing - your specific talk about buying out someone is despicable to say the least, it appears you're speaking from experience. I hope you have some self respect left or are you going to stoop lower and surprise me again.
Again,Top Tup & I both believe, we have to be the change we want to see. I'm using his ideas to help point out trouble areas with solutions, rather than just point out problems and walk away. Changes have been made, but let's also accept that the airline didn't reach this stage overnight. Sometimes all it takes for evil to triumph is that the good men do nothing.
Happy Landings
King on a wing - your specific talk about buying out someone is despicable to say the least, it appears you're speaking from experience. I hope you have some self respect left or are you going to stoop lower and surprise me again.
Again,Top Tup & I both believe, we have to be the change we want to see. I'm using his ideas to help point out trouble areas with solutions, rather than just point out problems and walk away. Changes have been made, but let's also accept that the airline didn't reach this stage overnight. Sometimes all it takes for evil to triumph is that the good men do nothing.
Happy Landings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: India
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont understand what these expat pilots in these previous posts keep whining about! They should be praying to whatever coconut shell their people pray to that they have a job that allows them to support their families with dignity. Instead all we see is this kind of "oh these injuns are so bad its sad" kind of propaganda on internet forums.
Speaking from an indian perspective, Expat pilots working in india have been nothing but trouble from the very beginning: many of the incidents we hear of in the media here, from landings on taxiways, to landing on wrong runways, runway overruns and wings brushing airport buildings (at IXA) can be traced an expat pilot sitting behind the controls. And not to mention the AIX crash at Mangalore. There is too much of a coincidence here.
I have seen some of these characters come into my flying school and many of them find it difficult to speak english! Most of them come from third rate flying schools "back home" and then try to blame it all on these "injuns". Given this poor history of expat pilots, why is the Govt not keeping its promise of banning the employment of foreign pilots by Indian carriers? The Govt here had made a promise to this effect before the 2009 elections and airlines were even served notices. But the deadline for implementing this seems to keep getting extended. Who is the Govt of India working for?
And if these expat pilots think its so bad here, then maybe they should just go back to their home countries. This will ensure that local talent gets a chance to get jobs.
I blame the Indian Govt for allowing foreign pilots to have a free run of the country's skies. Why should Indian carriers, put up with the dramatics of these expat pilots after putting them up in expensive 5/7 star hotels (while Indian pilots are put up in cheaper 3 star hotels around Mahipalpur)? An RTI application reveals that Air India spends 4 lakh rupees a month on a single expat pilots hotel stays alone! This at a time when indian students passing out of our flying schools are sitting jobless at home and taking up jobs at call-centers!
I say since the expat pilots find it so bad working in India, the Indian govt should tighten regulations with regards to recruitment and employment of foreign nationals with Indian carriers.
Coming back to this issue: I am not exactly a fan of Air India and lord knows they have a lot of things to improve on. But they(and other indian carriers, except perhaps Paramount) have systems that allow incidents like these to be reported and dealt with through the proper channel. Thats what this so-called "witness" should have done instead of whining on internet forums and broadcasting it on public networks. That only triggers a classic cover-up action.
PS: If a US pilot had resorted to this kind of chain emails with a US carrier, what do you think would have happened?
I hope Air India gets to the root of these emails, traces out the fellow and sends him home on the next flight out.
Speaking from an indian perspective, Expat pilots working in india have been nothing but trouble from the very beginning: many of the incidents we hear of in the media here, from landings on taxiways, to landing on wrong runways, runway overruns and wings brushing airport buildings (at IXA) can be traced an expat pilot sitting behind the controls. And not to mention the AIX crash at Mangalore. There is too much of a coincidence here.
I have seen some of these characters come into my flying school and many of them find it difficult to speak english! Most of them come from third rate flying schools "back home" and then try to blame it all on these "injuns". Given this poor history of expat pilots, why is the Govt not keeping its promise of banning the employment of foreign pilots by Indian carriers? The Govt here had made a promise to this effect before the 2009 elections and airlines were even served notices. But the deadline for implementing this seems to keep getting extended. Who is the Govt of India working for?
And if these expat pilots think its so bad here, then maybe they should just go back to their home countries. This will ensure that local talent gets a chance to get jobs.
I blame the Indian Govt for allowing foreign pilots to have a free run of the country's skies. Why should Indian carriers, put up with the dramatics of these expat pilots after putting them up in expensive 5/7 star hotels (while Indian pilots are put up in cheaper 3 star hotels around Mahipalpur)? An RTI application reveals that Air India spends 4 lakh rupees a month on a single expat pilots hotel stays alone! This at a time when indian students passing out of our flying schools are sitting jobless at home and taking up jobs at call-centers!
I say since the expat pilots find it so bad working in India, the Indian govt should tighten regulations with regards to recruitment and employment of foreign nationals with Indian carriers.
Coming back to this issue: I am not exactly a fan of Air India and lord knows they have a lot of things to improve on. But they(and other indian carriers, except perhaps Paramount) have systems that allow incidents like these to be reported and dealt with through the proper channel. Thats what this so-called "witness" should have done instead of whining on internet forums and broadcasting it on public networks. That only triggers a classic cover-up action.
PS: If a US pilot had resorted to this kind of chain emails with a US carrier, what do you think would have happened?
I hope Air India gets to the root of these emails, traces out the fellow and sends him home on the next flight out.
Last edited by royskaria; 17th Nov 2010 at 11:18.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: onboard an A6- enroute to India
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ ROYSKARIA.. I DO NOT ACCEPT YOUR FINGER POINTING AT EXPATS.
Its highly unprofessional of us to do it. Yes there are some pain in the ass cases and cribbers but most of them are fine gentlemen. Most of them possess and share knowledge that I consider very essential to become better aviators.
There wouldnt be any difference between us and those few cribbing expats if we start finger pointing like them. So lets obtain whats good and ignore what is unnecessary. For example one of our pprune member T*PTUP who's technical discussions and pointers are incredible but he cribs about air india like a baby. Here you should listen and take what you want and ignore his cribbing.
Regarding Air India. Things are definitely changing for the good no doubt.
Its highly unprofessional of us to do it. Yes there are some pain in the ass cases and cribbers but most of them are fine gentlemen. Most of them possess and share knowledge that I consider very essential to become better aviators.
There wouldnt be any difference between us and those few cribbing expats if we start finger pointing like them. So lets obtain whats good and ignore what is unnecessary. For example one of our pprune member T*PTUP who's technical discussions and pointers are incredible but he cribs about air india like a baby. Here you should listen and take what you want and ignore his cribbing.
Regarding Air India. Things are definitely changing for the good no doubt.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: India
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@indair: you know any other way of getting Ms.Fonda to keep quiet?
I know many expat pilots are perfect gentlemen, but then there are the other variety of which we have seen ample evidence on this thread that just get you worked up!
I know many expat pilots are perfect gentlemen, but then there are the other variety of which we have seen ample evidence on this thread that just get you worked up!
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bangkok,Thailand
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well when you believe in yourself and are open only for constructive suggestions, I am sure you wouldnt loose your cool, come what may 
I'm not sure what to believe.
I read this thread when it first came out and just picked it up again today. I cannot believe where it has gone. It seems to have hit home.....and what happened to TopTup....is he really having private conversations with 7XX ?? It's like reading a cheap spy novel....
anyway I was always against deregulation but if this is what happens when one Airline controls a country than I may have changed my mind......
