UPS Aircraft Down In Dubai
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Increase your SA....good reason to always fly with the MFD (if you have one) displaying airports. Select HDG, turn the heading bug to the airport and initiate the emergency descent (if required).
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Anyone know if there has ever been a case where in a transport aircraft, the flight deck window(s0 were opened due to smoke obstructing vision? The downside is feeding the fire with oxygen of course.
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Anyone know if there has ever been a case where in a transport aircraft, the flight deck window(s0 were opened due to smoke obstructing vision? The downside is feeding the fire with oxygen of course.
The checklist mentioned...no side window opening advised, however, it was tried, anyway.
The result was not so good, all crew died.
Smoke/fume/fire cause...improperly packed dangerous goods, in that case.
As I recall, some of the shipper employees went to...jail.
Hope so...just where they belonged.
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Breezy,
I believe the main reason there is no main deck fire suppression is that it hasn't been required by regulation.
FedEx is installing a self designed main deck fire suppression on their MD-11 freighters. It's a system that uses a can penetrator that runs along a track along the ceiling of the aircraft and is completely automated. It doesn't even have a system test or indication in the cockpit to show whether it's operational.
I believe the main reason there is no main deck fire suppression is that it hasn't been required by regulation.
FedEx is installing a self designed main deck fire suppression on their MD-11 freighters. It's a system that uses a can penetrator that runs along a track along the ceiling of the aircraft and is completely automated. It doesn't even have a system test or indication in the cockpit to show whether it's operational.
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Swissair Flight 111: in-flight fires.
Not the first inflight fire and likely , sadly not the last. Any chance hot wheels on take off caused the fire?
Not the first inflight fire and likely , sadly not the last. Any chance hot wheels on take off caused the fire?
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I'm a Capt on 744 Freighters.
I always brief if we get ANY fire (engine/cabin/cargo) we WILL turn at 500ft to head downwind* for a return - Thats is againts our company SOP's to follow the SID and do the QRH/Checklist ... BUT I want to LIVE!!!
*OR do a teardrop land witn a tailwind
I also fear the casual nature in which Hazmatt is loaded, their just isnt the time to check every pallet in detail before departure. We put our faith in the shipping agents and handling agents that its packaged and loaded correctly, and is what it says on the paperwork.
I also fear we havent got a main deck fire suppression system on the 744F.
The QRH has us depressurize and suffocate the fire - yeah, right, when its a dodgy chemical spontously combusting ... and we are 600 miles from the nearest bit of tarmac ... get real Mr Boeing .. and the certfiication authorities.
I hope lessons are learnt from it and procedures changed in 'freighter world'....
I always brief if we get ANY fire (engine/cabin/cargo) we WILL turn at 500ft to head downwind* for a return - Thats is againts our company SOP's to follow the SID and do the QRH/Checklist ... BUT I want to LIVE!!!
*OR do a teardrop land witn a tailwind
I also fear the casual nature in which Hazmatt is loaded, their just isnt the time to check every pallet in detail before departure. We put our faith in the shipping agents and handling agents that its packaged and loaded correctly, and is what it says on the paperwork.
I also fear we havent got a main deck fire suppression system on the 744F.
The QRH has us depressurize and suffocate the fire - yeah, right, when its a dodgy chemical spontously combusting ... and we are 600 miles from the nearest bit of tarmac ... get real Mr Boeing .. and the certfiication authorities.
I hope lessons are learnt from it and procedures changed in 'freighter world'....
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On opening windows during a hazmat fumes situation and or maindeck or cockpit fire, I am aware of at least 2 incidents(not accidents) where a window was opened. Procedure strongly discourages this but in the 2 cases it worked. Both cases were at the Flying Tiger Line, one in the late 1960's and one in the 1970's.... The involved captains told me that the checklist items had been accomplished and the situation was still pretty dire. And both captains said that it was a result of the following thought loop."Well that's every thing in the book, and things look like we are about to die so does anybody have any more ideas?" The window opening enabled a landing, make note that in both situations the aircraft involved were close to landing when the window was opened. There is no "window " to open on a 744 and how the escape hatch or smoke evac port would work might be quite different. Food for thought
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!983 AC DC-9 Cincinnati
Another example of why any delay in getting it on the ground can be bad:
ASN Aircraft accident McDonnell Douglas DC-9-32 C-FTLU Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky Airport, KY (CVG)
ASN Aircraft accident McDonnell Douglas DC-9-32 C-FTLU Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky Airport, KY (CVG)
411A, this one?
Clipper Titian 11/03/1973 Boeing B-707-321C(N458PA)
Location: Boston, Massachusetts Time: 09:39
Flight: 160
Route: New York City - Prestwick
3 Aboard / 3 Fatal
Smoke in the cockpit and uncontrollable fire caused by spillage of nitric acid on sawdust packing in the cargo hold.
Clipper Titian 11/03/1973 Boeing B-707-321C(N458PA)
Location: Boston, Massachusetts Time: 09:39
Flight: 160
Route: New York City - Prestwick
3 Aboard / 3 Fatal
Smoke in the cockpit and uncontrollable fire caused by spillage of nitric acid on sawdust packing in the cargo hold.
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Anyone know if there has ever been a case where in a transport aircraft, the flight deck window(s0 were opened due to smoke obstructing vision?
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KBOS Accident
Many years ago I attended a seminar, an AME was one of speakers who had looked into that accident. He said the fumes/smoke the crew was breathing was basically LAUGHING GAS.
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Anyone know if there has ever been a case where in a transport aircraft, the flight deck window(s0 were opened due to smoke obstructing vision? The downside is feeding the fire with oxygen of course.
Trash du Blanc
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Here is the press release about the Fedex system. It will be sold to other carriers:
FedEx Express Advances In-Flight Safety with Automatic Fire Suppression System
FedEx Express, a subsidiary of FedEx Corp. (NYSE:FDX), has unveiled the industry's first onboard automatic fire-suppression system (FSS), elevating the level of safety during international, over-water flights. The comprehensive fire-safety system is the result of seven years of design and development efforts at FedEx Express, and expands upon the company's existing commitment to advancing aviation safety.
"The in-flight safety of crew and cargo is a top priority at FedEx Express, leading to our development of this enhanced fire-safety technology," said Joel Murdock, managing director, Strategic Projects, FedEx Express. "After seven years of design and development, we're proud to see this proprietary technology take flight on a variety of aircraft in the FedEx fleet, representing another strong step forward in our air-safety initiatives."
In April 2009, FedEx Express began installation of the FSS technology on MD-11 freighters " the workhorse of the FedEx international aircraft fleet. Each installation requires approximately 700 man hours and will be completed on the company's 59 MD-11 aircraft in early 2011. FedEx also plans to install the FSS technology on new Boeing 777 Freighters, which begin international service in the company's fleet in early 2010. In all, 74 FedEx wide-body planes used for international, over-water flights will be upgraded with the technology.
How the FedEx FSS Works
The FSS features a network of infrared thermal sensors, foaming-agent generators and an overhead cargo-container injector. If heat is detected by the sensors, the fire suppression technology located above each cargo container is activated, simultaneously alerting crew members. The metal container is pierced by an injector apparatus and filled with an argon-based biodegradable and non-corrosive fire-suppression foam that controls and extinguishes the fire in minutes. Cargo in other containers is unaffected by the system's activation, and the foam has only minimal impact on packages housed within the container. For palletized freight, a special fire-retardant blanket is used to cover the cargo; it restricts the level of oxygen around freight, effectively serving as a fire suppression tool.
In extensive testing, including the certification process, the FedEx FSS proved quick and effective on classes of fires, demonstrating its capability of protecting aircraft, crew and customer shipments from fires started by:
Ordinary materials such as paper or lumber (Class A)
Flammable or combustible liquids such as gasoline or kerosene (Class B)
Combustible metals such as lithium, magnesium titanium, potassium and sodium which burn at extremely high temperatures (Class D).
No other aircraft fire-safety system in use today is effective against Class D fires. Shipments that are subject to what would be considered Class C fires, electrical equipment, for example, will continue to be carried separately in the aircraft's lower belly compartment, and are safeguarded with the industry-standard halon bottle system.
How FedEx FSS Enhances Air Safety
A majority of fire-safety systems in use onboard cargo aircraft require manual activation by a crew member. In addition, many systems only address fires that could potentially occur in containers holding cargo that must be declared and labeled by shippers as being Dangerous Goods. Yet most cargo fires originate from undeclared Dangerous Goods, posing additional challenges to existing fire-suppression systems. Because of its unique over-head design and automatic activation, the FedEx FSS technology overcomes this challenge by suppressing fires contained within any cargo container or pallet on the main flight deck.
In addition, current FAA regulations require that aircraft depressurize, divert to the closest airport and land immediately after any in-flight fire situation. This means that the flight crew has about 30 minutes to safely land the aircraft. With the new FedEx safety system, aircraft on lengthy international flights, which can be up to three hours from land, are able to safely divert and land.
"Our new in-flight system has pushed the industry safety standard to a new level," Murdock said. "With the FedEx technology our pilots have more time to review and assess an in-air situation, further ensuring their safety, and the safety of their plane and cargo."
FedEx Express, a subsidiary of FedEx Corp. (NYSE:FDX), has unveiled the industry's first onboard automatic fire-suppression system (FSS), elevating the level of safety during international, over-water flights. The comprehensive fire-safety system is the result of seven years of design and development efforts at FedEx Express, and expands upon the company's existing commitment to advancing aviation safety.
"The in-flight safety of crew and cargo is a top priority at FedEx Express, leading to our development of this enhanced fire-safety technology," said Joel Murdock, managing director, Strategic Projects, FedEx Express. "After seven years of design and development, we're proud to see this proprietary technology take flight on a variety of aircraft in the FedEx fleet, representing another strong step forward in our air-safety initiatives."
In April 2009, FedEx Express began installation of the FSS technology on MD-11 freighters " the workhorse of the FedEx international aircraft fleet. Each installation requires approximately 700 man hours and will be completed on the company's 59 MD-11 aircraft in early 2011. FedEx also plans to install the FSS technology on new Boeing 777 Freighters, which begin international service in the company's fleet in early 2010. In all, 74 FedEx wide-body planes used for international, over-water flights will be upgraded with the technology.
How the FedEx FSS Works
The FSS features a network of infrared thermal sensors, foaming-agent generators and an overhead cargo-container injector. If heat is detected by the sensors, the fire suppression technology located above each cargo container is activated, simultaneously alerting crew members. The metal container is pierced by an injector apparatus and filled with an argon-based biodegradable and non-corrosive fire-suppression foam that controls and extinguishes the fire in minutes. Cargo in other containers is unaffected by the system's activation, and the foam has only minimal impact on packages housed within the container. For palletized freight, a special fire-retardant blanket is used to cover the cargo; it restricts the level of oxygen around freight, effectively serving as a fire suppression tool.
In extensive testing, including the certification process, the FedEx FSS proved quick and effective on classes of fires, demonstrating its capability of protecting aircraft, crew and customer shipments from fires started by:
Ordinary materials such as paper or lumber (Class A)
Flammable or combustible liquids such as gasoline or kerosene (Class B)
Combustible metals such as lithium, magnesium titanium, potassium and sodium which burn at extremely high temperatures (Class D).
No other aircraft fire-safety system in use today is effective against Class D fires. Shipments that are subject to what would be considered Class C fires, electrical equipment, for example, will continue to be carried separately in the aircraft's lower belly compartment, and are safeguarded with the industry-standard halon bottle system.
How FedEx FSS Enhances Air Safety
A majority of fire-safety systems in use onboard cargo aircraft require manual activation by a crew member. In addition, many systems only address fires that could potentially occur in containers holding cargo that must be declared and labeled by shippers as being Dangerous Goods. Yet most cargo fires originate from undeclared Dangerous Goods, posing additional challenges to existing fire-suppression systems. Because of its unique over-head design and automatic activation, the FedEx FSS technology overcomes this challenge by suppressing fires contained within any cargo container or pallet on the main flight deck.
In addition, current FAA regulations require that aircraft depressurize, divert to the closest airport and land immediately after any in-flight fire situation. This means that the flight crew has about 30 minutes to safely land the aircraft. With the new FedEx safety system, aircraft on lengthy international flights, which can be up to three hours from land, are able to safely divert and land.
"Our new in-flight system has pushed the industry safety standard to a new level," Murdock said. "With the FedEx technology our pilots have more time to review and assess an in-air situation, further ensuring their safety, and the safety of their plane and cargo."
At FL350, is there any distinction between the following.
I am bloody sure if a fire is indicated then I dont worry about what started it.
Ordinary materials such as paper or lumber (Class A)
Flammable or combustible liquids such as gasoline or kerosene (Class B)
Combustible metals such as lithium, magnesium titanium, potassium and sodium which burn at extremely high temperatures (Class D).
Flammable or combustible liquids such as gasoline or kerosene (Class B)
Combustible metals such as lithium, magnesium titanium, potassium and sodium which burn at extremely high temperatures (Class D).
Huck,
Very intresting, thanks for sharing. If FSS does what it says on the tin, it should be made mandatory on all freighters, both on factory fresh and through an AD for in-service aircraft.
Let's see what all those airlines claiming "safety is our number one priority" will say about that.
Very intresting, thanks for sharing. If FSS does what it says on the tin, it should be made mandatory on all freighters, both on factory fresh and through an AD for in-service aircraft.
Let's see what all those airlines claiming "safety is our number one priority" will say about that.
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More intel on the FedEx Automatic Fire Suppression System:
Industry First Onboard Automatic Fire Suppression System | FedEx Global Newsroom
Industry First Onboard Automatic Fire Suppression System | FedEx Global Newsroom
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411A, this one?
Clipper Titian 11/03/1973 Boeing B-707-321C(N458PA)
Location: Boston, Massachusetts Time: 09:39
Flight: 160
Route: New York City - Prestwick
3 Aboard / 3 Fatal
Smoke in the cockpit and uncontrollable fire caused by spillage of nitric acid on sawdust packing in the cargo hold.
Clipper Titian 11/03/1973 Boeing B-707-321C(N458PA)
Location: Boston, Massachusetts Time: 09:39
Flight: 160
Route: New York City - Prestwick
3 Aboard / 3 Fatal
Smoke in the cockpit and uncontrollable fire caused by spillage of nitric acid on sawdust packing in the cargo hold.