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UPS Aircraft Down In Dubai

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UPS Aircraft Down In Dubai

Old 4th Sep 2010, 00:59
  #121 (permalink)  
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Very sad day!

It could happen to any of us on any given day. Undeclared Haz is a major threat to the lives of the crews of cargo and pax ops! If you have any "good deal cheap chinese Li batteries PLEASE get rid of them immediately! Just had an onboard fire at FDX from flashlight batteries. All ended well this time??
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 01:14
  #122 (permalink)  
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There is no "window " to open on a 744 and how the escape hatch or smoke evac port would work might be quite different. Food for thought
Molon, thanks, I guess no side B7747 windows. My Boeing time is on light twins and trimotors and even the heavy twins had side windows.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 02:21
  #123 (permalink)  
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Forgive the slight deviation... I know the hazmat suggestion is ONLY a theory at this stage.... but I have an interest (as someone who used to forward freight and always worried about something I sent being a link in a bad chain of events....)

In a situation such as this accident, IF a hazardous material was a major causal factor, how likely is it that they can trace it to a certain pallet/package/container? Is it all a matter of forensics (i.e. we found such and such a substance in X location) that is then matched to approximate locations on a manifest, that is, they can figure out who actually despatched/signed for the load from records, or is it all a guess at best?

Hope they get some answers as soon as possible, for the families. Intrigued by the varying reports of dumoing/not dumping fuel...

There were a couple of people I worked with who were a bit- ahem, "relaxed" about actually checking what they were sending... I emailed them some pictures/repors on Valujet.. funnilyenough they seemed a lot more detail oriented after that! It just sucks that our lives are so often left up to (inexperienced) others... e.g pax bringing on things they think are harmless, like the dude in SYD a few years back with a cabin bag full of fireworks!!!
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 02:36
  #124 (permalink)  
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Nope no side windows...

I guess no side B7747 windows
Never really saw the need for them, the cockpit is already loud enough. Besides, this sort of thing aint supposed to happen right?
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 02:37
  #125 (permalink)  
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Anyone know if there has ever been a case where in a transport aircraft, the flight deck window(s0 were opened due to smoke obstructing vision?

ValueJet 592
After all these years that's the first time that I have seen that (fact?) in print
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 02:51
  #126 (permalink)  
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I think Bernoulli dictates that opening a DV window just sucks more smoke into the cockpit.

It happened in the Rick Nelson DC-3 crash, back in 1983 (?) in Dallas.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 02:54
  #127 (permalink)  
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Anyone has crew names?
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 02:54
  #128 (permalink)  
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C141 out of Austrailia, mid 70's lost an engine on takeoff, that took out the adjacent engine and started the cgo compartment on fire. Cockpit filled with smoke. Nav opened up the sextant port allowing the smoke and fumes to be vented outside.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 02:58
  #129 (permalink)  
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Iceman 49 has a brilliant idea... a smoke venting port in all modern cockpits.

pull a handle, a vent opens sucking out the cockpit...pilots go on oxygen and smoke pulled out.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 03:04
  #130 (permalink)  
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Local Paper says two minutes after takeoff

According to the local paper here in Dubai, The Khaleej Times, Saturday, Sept 4:

Both crew dead as UPS jumbo crashes near Emirates Road.

A major disaster was averted by the pilots of a UPS 747-400 that crashed near the Emirates Road late on Friday evening when they avoided residental areas after their aircraft developed engine trouble.

Two minutes after the plane took off from the Dubai International Airport for Cologne in Germany, the plane developed an onboard crisis, and came down in a ball of fire at about 8pm near the Nad Al Sheba Military Camp close to the Global Village, just 20km from the airport.

Both pilots died and their bodies have been recovered, according to police sources. Some eyewitness reports said the jumbo jet streaking flames roared over the Emirates Road setting some cars on fire, but there is no report of any injuries on the ground.

Mohammed, a construction worker and witness to the accident, noticed the aircraft losing altitude and a truck in its way had a lucky escape. He added: "Within moments there was a loud explosion and we could hear people screaming for help." Another witness, who did not wish to be named, saw the fire as he drove along the road, while many others thought the plane was flying dangerously low.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 03:09
  #131 (permalink)  
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So where do the Khaleej Times get the 'Two minutes after take off bit'!!

Seems journo's will make anything up to get a story out.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 03:10
  #132 (permalink)  
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The FDX Suppression system mayl not work on a 747, the reason is that a 744, 742 and even the 777F do not use containers (typically). Each position is loose loaded to a specific dimension on a cookie sheet wrapped in plastic and secured with netting to the sheet. An injection system would simply flood a single box or several boxes but would not flood the immediate area surrounding the cargo in that position since no containment exists for that cargo.

I could see foam being used, but without knowing the specifics of the volume of foam that can be produced on board it may not be practical from a size/weight standpoint.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 03:51
  #133 (permalink)  
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from 'The National' Abu Dhabi, 4th september 2010

DUBAI // A cargo plane crashed in Dubai last night, erupting in a huge fireball and killing the two crew members on board.

United Parcel Service (UPS) Flight 6, a 747-400, had taken off from Dubai International Airport for the company’s European hub in Cologne, Germany, when it crashed at around 7.45pm in the Nad al Sheba Military Camp, missing the cars and residents of Emirates Road, Al Ain Road and Dubai Silicon Oasis.

Witnesses reported seeing a fireball that looked as high as a 20-storey building before smoke blackened the sky.

The pilot radioed air traffic control shortly after takeoff and said there was a fire on board, said Saif al Suwaidi, the director-general of the General Civil Aviation Authority (GCAA).

“He reported fire and smoke in the cockpit,” Mr al Suwaidi said. “He was asked to return but he missed the approach and then he disappeared from the radar. We then found that he had crashed between Al Ain Road and the Emirates Road. So far there’s no casualties on the ground that we know of.”

The bodies of the pilot and co-pilot have been retrieved from the wreckage, the GCAA said.

Col Ahmed al Sayegh, deputy chief of Dubai Civil Defence, confirmed that the plane turned back due to a “technical error” after takeoff.

From outside the closed military base last night, the flickering blue and red lights of emergency service vehicles could be seen through the large plume of smoke. The service road leading to the base was cordoned off.

Jordana Fawaz was on Al Ain Road passing Emirates Road at around 7.45pm when she noticed the low-flying plane.

“My mum commented on how low the plane was. It was all dark but looked as though it was going in to land,” she said. “Then it disappeared from view and then all of a sudden a tower of fire and smoke came billowing from the ground.”

Ms Fawaz pulled her car over to the side of the road, alongside dozens of others, and called the emergency services.

“It looked like it just glided to the ground, it didn’t look unstable, just literally flying to the ground,” she said. “Then all of a sudden a massive tower of smoke and flames - a good 20 storeys.”

Five fire stations contributed manpower to extinguish the flames.

Joseph John, an academic, was driving with a friend when he saw the explosion nearby.

“It was pitch black and I saw an orange glow and then I saw the biggest fireball I have ever seen,” he said.

Baba Raqman, a worker at the housing development under construction adjacent to the military base, was sitting outside with colleagues when he saw the plane disappear behind some of the buildings.

“I didn’t know if it was a small or large plane, then I saw lots of smoke and the fire,” he said.

Bob Lekites, airline and international operations manager for UPS, a package delivery company based in Atlanta, Georgia, said the company would investigate the crash.

“This incident is very unfortunate and we will do everything we can to find the cause,” he said. “Our thoughts go out to the crew members involved in the incident and their families.”

UPS said it would not speculate on the cause of the crash. It said it is co-operating with UAE government authorities but is also dispatching its own investigation team to Dubai.

UPS Flight 6 was the third plane to crash after taking off from the UAE in the past year.

In October, a Boeing 707 cargo plane crashed shortly after takeoff at Sharjah International Airport, killing all six Sudanese crewmen on board and narrowly missing built-up neighbourhoods.

In May, 158 people died when Air India Express Flight 812 from Dubai overshot the runway at Mangalore.

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Old 4th Sep 2010, 04:34
  #134 (permalink)  
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Wasn't there a day when large freighters carried loadmasters to monitor the main deck cargo holds? A third pair of eyes seems to make good safety sense, but I guess not economical in todays world of business?
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 05:26
  #135 (permalink)  
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period,, dot,, end of the proverbial story.

Let's all agree on that.
Let's all agree that what we do MATTERS.
It MATTERS that rules are in place trying to prevent accidents(every WARNING in the book is written in blood.)
It matters that everyone in the chain in supposedly there because they EARNED the right to be there..
Let's all agree that right now,, it's best to get all the facts in before we question causes, motives, actions. There is nothing more useless than a monday morning quarterback,, or runway behind you,etc.
As a 14,000 hr flight engineer and a 7 year ground engineer, my heart screams for an answer,, but let's let the DATA roll in a bit first.
If the initial reports are correct,, THEY FOUGHT IT, what better honor can we bestow?
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 05:36
  #136 (permalink)  
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The MD-11 Volume I, QRH, under Smoke/Fumes Removal, Last item is:

Cockpit smoke severe?
Configure aircraft as required to maintain 205 KIAS or minimum
maneuvering speed whichever is lower.
Headsets . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ON
PNF Clearview Window . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .OPEN 3 INCHES
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 05:44
  #137 (permalink)  
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Well said Heracles...
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 06:01
  #138 (permalink)  
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C'mon now. This website is called Professional Pilot RUMOR Network. And for some a way to deal with the tragedy is to talk about it. If you don't like rumors then don't log on! RIP to the pilots and hopefully a report that helps others in the future comes out soon.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 06:28
  #139 (permalink)  
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The problem is not who doesn't log in but who does log in. i.e. Journalists sniffing for info.

Details should not be released on here unless they are already in the public domain. Especially the names of the pilots. The families should be advised in the proper way first. I know if it was me, I wouldn't want my wife to read about my demise in the morning paper, or even worse get a phone call from a gutter rat asking for details about her recently deceased husband.

PPRUNE has already been quoted in the Guardian Newspaper and named the handle of the poster as the source.

I understand people speculating i.e. why did they not divert to Doha, why did/didn't they open a window, why didn't they have fire suppression etc. but actual hard personal sensitive details should be handled very carefully given some of the people reading.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 06:29
  #140 (permalink)  
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@Huck - The DV (Direct Vision) windows on the L382, DC3 and CV240,340,440 did indeed all follow Mr B's principle but only in co-ordinated flight. A little rudder input would create a blast of air into the cockpit exactly matching the indicated airspeed!
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