Age 70 for international pilots?
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With the current events taking place in France it appears the government needs an official to tout the benefits of raising the retirement age from 60 to 62. They need a guy like soon to be ex-ALPA prez. Prater to let the French people know what a great deal raising the age will be. They can learn about the additional years of regular wage earnings and the added benefit of having these experienced employees staying in the job market.
This probably the only time in my life I wished I was French. Too bad we couldn't have garnered this type of outrage over raising the age to 65 in the states. Instead we had old pilots advocating the change. They are like cock roaches and won't go away. At least the French want to retire. The gummers want to work to the grave. Want a bunch of morons the gummers are.
This probably the only time in my life I wished I was French. Too bad we couldn't have garnered this type of outrage over raising the age to 65 in the states. Instead we had old pilots advocating the change. They are like cock roaches and won't go away. At least the French want to retire. The gummers want to work to the grave. Want a bunch of morons the gummers are.
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I have to laugh...I really do. someone complaining about loans for 100k euro's for their training! I guess I did it wrong, I earned the money first and then spent it on flying lessons.
someone sold you down the river pal!
I've hated the seniority system. I quit my first small airline job cuz they broke weight and balance rules...so I had to start over at another airline. They went out of business...so I started over at another small airline. Mind you I now had more experience than most of the captains there...but SENIORITY!
Then I went to a fine big airline. The captains were older than the hills and I learned from them. But mergers came along and down I went on the seniority hill.
I firmly believe that if there were a completely objective examination, that seniority should be based on how good a pilot you are and not how old you are or how many years with the line you have.
I also believe that there should be no federally mandated retirement age for anything. either you can do the job or you can't.
someone sold you down the river pal!
I've hated the seniority system. I quit my first small airline job cuz they broke weight and balance rules...so I had to start over at another airline. They went out of business...so I started over at another small airline. Mind you I now had more experience than most of the captains there...but SENIORITY!
Then I went to a fine big airline. The captains were older than the hills and I learned from them. But mergers came along and down I went on the seniority hill.
I firmly believe that if there were a completely objective examination, that seniority should be based on how good a pilot you are and not how old you are or how many years with the line you have.
I also believe that there should be no federally mandated retirement age for anything. either you can do the job or you can't.
Join Date: May 2005
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Here's something else you might want to consider.
The last time I did a medical and had a discussion about aged pilots, the doctor told me that in old people the guy could be doing a crossword on Monday and be non compos mentis by Friday.
He mentioned a similar problem with doctors, how does anyone know a doctor is past retirement, should have given it up but hangs in there and starts prescribing the incorrect medicines.
Bet you've read about that before.
The last time I did a medical and had a discussion about aged pilots, the doctor told me that in old people the guy could be doing a crossword on Monday and be non compos mentis by Friday.
He mentioned a similar problem with doctors, how does anyone know a doctor is past retirement, should have given it up but hangs in there and starts prescribing the incorrect medicines.
Bet you've read about that before.
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SKOL
I guess you didn't read the stuff about an objective examination system did you?
I am an excellent airline pilot. i would love an unbiased (that means no sucking up to the management pilots...who are often rotten flyers) method of determining excellence and seniority assigned by this method.
evidently, you don't have a high opinion of your own flying. maybe you should spend some time working on it.
sheesh!
I am an excellent airline pilot. i would love an unbiased (that means no sucking up to the management pilots...who are often rotten flyers) method of determining excellence and seniority assigned by this method.
evidently, you don't have a high opinion of your own flying. maybe you should spend some time working on it.
sheesh!
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I also believe that there should be no federally mandated retirement age for anything.
Do they still do their jobs OK?
You bet....mostly giving malcontent First Officers, who are just chomping at the bit to upgrade...a hard time.
This is called....turning the screws, ever so slowly.
Younger guys will just have to learn, sooner or later...in the airline business pointy end, the older guys rule the roost, and this is not likely to change anytime soon.
However, there is a bright spot on the horizon...in the form massive retirements in the next few years (USA, anyway), which will have a direct positive impact for the 'disadvantaged'
copilots.
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protectthe hornet.
"I am an excellent airline pilot"
Actually I don't feel the need to work on it because I'm not insecure enough to have to, and I've been one since 1969 which is probably a lot longer than you.
If you think you can do the job better than anyone else you should bear in mind Charles DeGaulle's statement.
"The cemeteries of the world are full of indispensible people".
"I am an excellent airline pilot"
Actually I don't feel the need to work on it because I'm not insecure enough to have to, and I've been one since 1969 which is probably a lot longer than you.
If you think you can do the job better than anyone else you should bear in mind Charles DeGaulle's statement.
"The cemeteries of the world are full of indispensible people".
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I tend to agree with Granpa....
Two Cardiac Consultants... passengers on my L1011 asked if they could review my GF rosters...this was in 1988.
Later they advised me age 45 was a good time to pack it all in....long East West... min. day rest... East again night flights particularly.
They did not like the increasingly being constructed long haul max duty min rest type of rosters ...that were being used increasingly throughout the airline industry...and importantly they were seeing the results.
They said then that this type of "efficient" roster that my company GF was seeking to achieve... contained..." A lot of built in... premature mortality"
Having said that...
What they would have thought of my later rosters with B767 two man crew...12hours max. duty extended to 16 at Captains discretion..with 70% through 3.00am..plus 9hours at the hotel rest when appropriate...with 20 to 24 hours rest max. as a policy...with 6 days off in 28 beggars believe.
When I read the ultra long haul hours flown today even with augmented crew I am glad I was terminated at age 60 in My 2000.
In my case the consultants predictions were "nearly correct"... I did receive but thanks to the Norfolk NHS para medics and their clot buster drug survived the much anticipated "Roster" heart attack.
Like most pilots...I blame the management...and not myself!
Two Cardiac Consultants... passengers on my L1011 asked if they could review my GF rosters...this was in 1988.
Later they advised me age 45 was a good time to pack it all in....long East West... min. day rest... East again night flights particularly.
They did not like the increasingly being constructed long haul max duty min rest type of rosters ...that were being used increasingly throughout the airline industry...and importantly they were seeing the results.
They said then that this type of "efficient" roster that my company GF was seeking to achieve... contained..." A lot of built in... premature mortality"
Having said that...
What they would have thought of my later rosters with B767 two man crew...12hours max. duty extended to 16 at Captains discretion..with 70% through 3.00am..plus 9hours at the hotel rest when appropriate...with 20 to 24 hours rest max. as a policy...with 6 days off in 28 beggars believe.
When I read the ultra long haul hours flown today even with augmented crew I am glad I was terminated at age 60 in My 2000.
In my case the consultants predictions were "nearly correct"... I did receive but thanks to the Norfolk NHS para medics and their clot buster drug survived the much anticipated "Roster" heart attack.
Like most pilots...I blame the management...and not myself!
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skol
even degaulle made a few mistakes.
you missed the point of the post...to get rid of seniority with an objective assesment of how good a pilot you are. that would make us all work harder at being better pilots and you would only have yourself to blame on your seniority.
even degaulle made a few mistakes.
you missed the point of the post...to get rid of seniority with an objective assesment of how good a pilot you are. that would make us all work harder at being better pilots and you would only have yourself to blame on your seniority.
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Over 60 Snooze
I am sure many of you have sat next to a pilot just over 60.
When you think back to when you were younger you would not leave the TV remote with Grandad, and you would be hiding in your car seat as he drove down the road..
There is so many items that are missed. thinking is slower. there must be a flight safety hazard to this
When you think back to when you were younger you would not leave the TV remote with Grandad, and you would be hiding in your car seat as he drove down the road..
There is so many items that are missed. thinking is slower. there must be a flight safety hazard to this
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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So where are all the young aces then? Flew LHS nearly thirty years for major carriers and yes, a very few co-pilots stood out as excellent, the rest were just average. Listening to ManAdaSystem and his colleagues here you would expect them all to be **** hot operators, I wonder if they are?
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Age 70
Everyone that controls all the young chaps lives , including mine are above 70 in most cases. So what is the big Deal! I say u got it or don,t, and in this business I have seen many pilots who did not have when they were young, and will not get it when they are older. You are either a Pilot or Not! IT IS AllWAYS GOOD TO HAVE THE FEET ON THE AILERONS. GREAT JOB YOU ALL ENJOY IT !
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Hei, Mr darkman62
I'd be very happy to retire and give you my place in the skies. Just like you I have just the first and only one wife.
I have no other choice than to keep on flying in order to survive. My previous company (Varig) went down along with my pension plan.
There are many other pilots with different reasonable reasons to be in the job, so, don't jump into conclusions.
I see, by your statement, that you need some extra hours to upgrade.
Safe flights
I have no other choice than to keep on flying in order to survive. My previous company (Varig) went down along with my pension plan.
There are many other pilots with different reasonable reasons to be in the job, so, don't jump into conclusions.
I see, by your statement, that you need some extra hours to upgrade.
Safe flights
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somebody mentioned passion ?
This is the reason that ANY vocation is not just a job, it shows in the way you approach every flight, every crew, every working day.
Then there are the folks who believe that having spent their 100K the aviation world somehow owes them a living .. some justify their position by their presence , it is easy enough to see potential and part of the task from the left seat is to nurture that through good example and encouragment, others .. bluntly do not which is where the whole PTF thing raises it's ugly head yet again.
The years spent mugging church mice to suppliment the megre earnings of an instructor are actually years well spent: getting out of bed at some godforsaken hour with no guarantee of earning anything leads one to question ones motivation on the one hand and explore alternatives on the other.
If you are still in the frame when it comes to an airline position, you have probably approached every one of those days with dedication and well based optimism that the goal set for yourself is one worth achieving, as you are living the experience, and learning from it.
To echo sentiments previously expressed, I will cease commercial flying on grounds of medical or competence issues only and continue teaching / examining / and hopefully inspiring those with the passion to follow the path I have chosen for myself, having been inspired by others.
Viewing the "experience" in the left seat as an obstacle rather than an asset in ones development does not resonate with me: there were good captains who I learnt from, and not so good captains who I also learnt from, my objective was to adopt the good stuff, and mitigate the bad .. when a command came my way I felt properly prepared rather than entitled.
The term retirement is not one I recognise, that is not to say I will stick with the airline industry past 60 years of age !!
Then there are the folks who believe that having spent their 100K the aviation world somehow owes them a living .. some justify their position by their presence , it is easy enough to see potential and part of the task from the left seat is to nurture that through good example and encouragment, others .. bluntly do not which is where the whole PTF thing raises it's ugly head yet again.
The years spent mugging church mice to suppliment the megre earnings of an instructor are actually years well spent: getting out of bed at some godforsaken hour with no guarantee of earning anything leads one to question ones motivation on the one hand and explore alternatives on the other.
If you are still in the frame when it comes to an airline position, you have probably approached every one of those days with dedication and well based optimism that the goal set for yourself is one worth achieving, as you are living the experience, and learning from it.
To echo sentiments previously expressed, I will cease commercial flying on grounds of medical or competence issues only and continue teaching / examining / and hopefully inspiring those with the passion to follow the path I have chosen for myself, having been inspired by others.
Viewing the "experience" in the left seat as an obstacle rather than an asset in ones development does not resonate with me: there were good captains who I learnt from, and not so good captains who I also learnt from, my objective was to adopt the good stuff, and mitigate the bad .. when a command came my way I felt properly prepared rather than entitled.
The term retirement is not one I recognise, that is not to say I will stick with the airline industry past 60 years of age !!