Age 70 for international pilots?
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Fokkerwokker,
I was told at age 19 by a retired Swiss Air captain, "Choose your airline wisely son".
I took his advice.
It is complete and utter lunacy to expect somebody in their 30's or 40's waiting for a captain's slot to play nursing home attendant for captains who have lost their capability to hear, remember or even stay awake on the flight deck.
Its also not their job to pay for five wive's homes or illegitimate children, when someone tried to recreate some time of free love from the 1970's on an overnight.
For those of you that have got to age 63 and not sorted this out, there's some sad news that awaits you; you never will!
Go and enjoy your retirement and pass the baton.
I was told at age 19 by a retired Swiss Air captain, "Choose your airline wisely son".
I took his advice.
It is complete and utter lunacy to expect somebody in their 30's or 40's waiting for a captain's slot to play nursing home attendant for captains who have lost their capability to hear, remember or even stay awake on the flight deck.
Its also not their job to pay for five wive's homes or illegitimate children, when someone tried to recreate some time of free love from the 1970's on an overnight.
For those of you that have got to age 63 and not sorted this out, there's some sad news that awaits you; you never will!
Go and enjoy your retirement and pass the baton.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Kangaroo Court - You have conveniently forgotten the large number of pilots who, through no fault of their own, have been made redundant, sometimes more than once and had to start all over again at the bottom the the FOs seniority system in a new job. Picking ones airline wisely is a luxury only available to those who happen to be in the right place at the right time, lucky you.
Also don't forget what happened to Swiss Air, Sabina, BCal, Dan Air, Air Europe, Laker, Pan Am, to name but a few, you can't surely blame the pilots for these airlines collapse nor suggest the pilots didn't choose wisely when they joined?
Finally don't forget that for many of us the retirement age was sixty five when we started out, the wrong has only recently been put right but too late for some. Seventy is too much, sixty five is about right; no one had to nursemaid me but I flew with more than one co pilot who was a liability and way younger than me.
Also don't forget what happened to Swiss Air, Sabina, BCal, Dan Air, Air Europe, Laker, Pan Am, to name but a few, you can't surely blame the pilots for these airlines collapse nor suggest the pilots didn't choose wisely when they joined?
Finally don't forget that for many of us the retirement age was sixty five when we started out, the wrong has only recently been put right but too late for some. Seventy is too much, sixty five is about right; no one had to nursemaid me but I flew with more than one co pilot who was a liability and way younger than me.
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Parabellum and all,
As somebody who has been at this long enough to earn certification in three different countries and eight type ratings, a couple of degrees, teach some abinitio stuff and aerobatics on the side in tailwheel stuff...yep, there's a certain degree of injustice to any type of mandatory retirement age at all, but it needs to adhered to at 63 and not allowed to creep up. Here's why.
The flying although more mundane, is longer haul, with shorter rest provisions than ever before.
The processed food we are eating combined with our sedentary occupations and pastimes as a culture is contributing to a new generation of aircrew and for that matter, a general population, who will not live as long a life expectancy of those that came before. As far as historians can gather, this is the first time this has happened in the evolution of modern man.
Our governments are going to be even LESS likely to care for their elderly in the FUTURE than they are now. For a man or woman in their 30's it is even more imperative that they contribute to savings for retirement than ever before.
Our opinions of how we flew as first officers are much higher than our captains had of us at that same time...they just didn't have the internet to share their lack of trust in our ability under a pseudonym.
Retirement is there for a reason. Incapacitation IS rising with senior crew members making their final flight west...with 200 plus souls on board with the falsified promise of a safe flight with a complete crew at the controls at the destination.
This madness HAS to stop!!!
63 is almost TOO old as it is!!!
Don't even get me started on that P-51 crash in Reno!!
As somebody who has been at this long enough to earn certification in three different countries and eight type ratings, a couple of degrees, teach some abinitio stuff and aerobatics on the side in tailwheel stuff...yep, there's a certain degree of injustice to any type of mandatory retirement age at all, but it needs to adhered to at 63 and not allowed to creep up. Here's why.
The flying although more mundane, is longer haul, with shorter rest provisions than ever before.
The processed food we are eating combined with our sedentary occupations and pastimes as a culture is contributing to a new generation of aircrew and for that matter, a general population, who will not live as long a life expectancy of those that came before. As far as historians can gather, this is the first time this has happened in the evolution of modern man.
Our governments are going to be even LESS likely to care for their elderly in the FUTURE than they are now. For a man or woman in their 30's it is even more imperative that they contribute to savings for retirement than ever before.
Our opinions of how we flew as first officers are much higher than our captains had of us at that same time...they just didn't have the internet to share their lack of trust in our ability under a pseudonym.
Retirement is there for a reason. Incapacitation IS rising with senior crew members making their final flight west...with 200 plus souls on board with the falsified promise of a safe flight with a complete crew at the controls at the destination.
This madness HAS to stop!!!
63 is almost TOO old as it is!!!
Don't even get me started on that P-51 crash in Reno!!
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I'm 75, I got my first FAA license in 1966 (1720853, I can still remember the number without peeking), I've owned and driven racecars and as an automotive journalist tested every Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Maserati, AMG Mercedes and you-name-it that's out there. I go to the gym five days a week and plan to live to 100, strongly based on my mother's longevity genes.
But when it's time to drive somewhere in our Porsche, I let my wife do it. She's 15 years younger. Oh, and I don't fly any more either. Quit doing that about 10 years ago, when I sold the Falco I'd built.
Anybody who won't admit they're losing a step, and then another step, as they age is fooling themselves.
But when it's time to drive somewhere in our Porsche, I let my wife do it. She's 15 years younger. Oh, and I don't fly any more either. Quit doing that about 10 years ago, when I sold the Falco I'd built.
Anybody who won't admit they're losing a step, and then another step, as they age is fooling themselves.
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Thank you, Sir!!
If only there were more like you. Ironically, you're probably on of the few that could REALLY make a great contribution in a training role in a procedural, ops spec or simulator capacity, but we don't need you flying to minimas with 400 souls on board.
Spare us all!!
If only there were more like you. Ironically, you're probably on of the few that could REALLY make a great contribution in a training role in a procedural, ops spec or simulator capacity, but we don't need you flying to minimas with 400 souls on board.
Spare us all!!
Last edited by Kangaroo Court; 23rd Oct 2011 at 03:56.
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Kangaroo Court , I was directly under Galloping Ghost when it rolled inverted in the stands and a 21 year old could not have remained conscious during that 10G+ pull up. His age had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome. It crashed 300 ft from us but initially was coming directly at us in the seats. He was 74 but seemed to be doing a great job of flying until the elevator trim tab went away. My friend, Steven Hinton was in #7 Strega leading the race when it happened. He won the Gold unlimited two years ago at age 21, last year he won because the wind cancelled the Gold race and this year the crash cancelled the rest of the air race. Voodoo, who was right behind Strega had the same trim tab fail about 12 years ago and a much younger pilot blacked out and thankfully spiraled up 9,000 ft until the speed dropped off and recovered by removing power. We shouldn't be so quick to blame age on accidents.
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The second biggest stupidity ever.
The first one was to increase to 65. The second is to increase age to 70.
The problem is people don`t save money when they are younger , have a lot of ex wives to support and when the time to retire comes , they have no money to do it without losing quality of life.
They are kind of slaves and they want us to do all slaves because of their inconsequent life.
Others to whom this profile does not apply are those who have a very sad personal life , are nothing at home and prefer to keep working , as this is the only chance they have to someone pay attention to them.
Pilots believe themselves smart , but most of them have no idea how foolish they are.
Everybody wants to retire as earlier as possible. Pilots are the only one stupid class who is finding a way to do it later.
Such a stupid people !!!
The first one was to increase to 65. The second is to increase age to 70.
The problem is people don`t save money when they are younger , have a lot of ex wives to support and when the time to retire comes , they have no money to do it without losing quality of life.
They are kind of slaves and they want us to do all slaves because of their inconsequent life.
Others to whom this profile does not apply are those who have a very sad personal life , are nothing at home and prefer to keep working , as this is the only chance they have to someone pay attention to them.
Pilots believe themselves smart , but most of them have no idea how foolish they are.
Everybody wants to retire as earlier as possible. Pilots are the only one stupid class who is finding a way to do it later.
Such a stupid people !!!
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Don't even get me started on that P-51 crash in Reno!!
A3Twenty - you have chosen to join in this thread without bothering to read the previous posts, this renders your post quite pointless.
Such a stupid people !!!
.
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65?
Love to give you guys the reins. Only problem is five Robber Barrons have stolen my retirement funds with the promise of "better days ahead" After 34 years, Many of us "Retreads" are still sitting in the right seat listening to much smarter people in the left seat with 25 years experience. If you can get me the retirement that was on the books when I signed up with this carrier, I'll leave tomorrow. BTW, please e mail me when you turn 60 and after you've seen "Logan's Run"
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A3Twenty - you have chosen to join in this thread without bothering to read the previous posts, this renders your post quite pointless.
Quote:
Such a stupid people !!!
Indeed!.
Quote:
Such a stupid people !!!
Indeed!.
Are you able to remember it without cheating??
Indeed!
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Parabellum,
I can assure you that three certifying nations, the history of teaching wide body and eight type-ratings assures that I am quite safe to fly. I am also smart enough to invest my savings wisely while enjoying this long and successful career.
It helps to live your life responsibly, not drink it away, not sleep it away with as many hotties as you think you can handle and not blame others for your decisions.
This cradle to grave attitude is the first part of the problem, not preparing for the vagaries of the economy is the next.
Baby boomer whining sure does get old!!
I can assure you that three certifying nations, the history of teaching wide body and eight type-ratings assures that I am quite safe to fly. I am also smart enough to invest my savings wisely while enjoying this long and successful career.
It helps to live your life responsibly, not drink it away, not sleep it away with as many hotties as you think you can handle and not blame others for your decisions.
This cradle to grave attitude is the first part of the problem, not preparing for the vagaries of the economy is the next.
Baby boomer whining sure does get old!!
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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It helps to live your life responsibly, not drink it away, not sleep it away with as many hotties as you think you can handle and not blame others for your decisions.
As I said before, you have been lucky to be in the right place at the right time and are quite obviously very pleased with yourself, bully for you, you certainly come across as too engrossed with your own career to properly understand the realities of the big wide world of aviation.
Don't even get me started on that P-51 crash in Reno!!
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The harder I work, the luckier I get.
Age 60 is old enough.
Anything above 63 is too old.
It's bad enough dealing with these people on the roads. How many more incapacitations do we need for you to get the message?
Age 60 is old enough.
Anything above 63 is too old.
It's bad enough dealing with these people on the roads. How many more incapacitations do we need for you to get the message?
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KC, after a while your repetition gets really boring. Quit when you want, let everybody else quit when they want. Some people need to retire earlier than others. Age is only part of the aging process.
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If the argument has become boring and repetitious, then stop participating in the thread. This is an issue that won't go away, and when a crew pairing of geriatrics crash through somebody's living room wall taking out innocent people on the ground, all of the politicians will run away from your cause and all of the attorneys will run towards the family's survivors.
Your reputations, posthumously, will be dragged through international media circles for the selfish fools you are!
This is a profession of physical fitness, reflex and sound mind. Not just to be demonstrated in a doctor's office for an hour during banker's hours, but in the early morning after transiting time zones and eating out of a plastic box, followed by the failure of some "fail" safe electronic bunch of crap avionics package and a hand flown approach to minimums.
We have PLENTY of evidence to suggest that 63 is very much near the top end of existence for a pilot in POST retirement. We do not need anymore risk associated with a profession that is seen as borderline irresponsible in its governance already.
"Quit when you want."
Is that medical advice you'd offer an alcoholic?
It's those of us that can observe the problem have the greatest duty of all to do something about it.
Your reputations, posthumously, will be dragged through international media circles for the selfish fools you are!
This is a profession of physical fitness, reflex and sound mind. Not just to be demonstrated in a doctor's office for an hour during banker's hours, but in the early morning after transiting time zones and eating out of a plastic box, followed by the failure of some "fail" safe electronic bunch of crap avionics package and a hand flown approach to minimums.
We have PLENTY of evidence to suggest that 63 is very much near the top end of existence for a pilot in POST retirement. We do not need anymore risk associated with a profession that is seen as borderline irresponsible in its governance already.
"Quit when you want."
Is that medical advice you'd offer an alcoholic?
It's those of us that can observe the problem have the greatest duty of all to do something about it.
Last edited by Kangaroo Court; 25th Oct 2011 at 00:13.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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It's bad enough dealing with these people on the roads. How many more incapacitations do we need for you to get the message?
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when a crew pairing of geriatrics crash through somebody's living room wall taking out innocent people on the ground, all of the politicians will run away from your cause and all of the attorneys will run towards the family's survivors.