Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Ash clouds threaten air traffic

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Ash clouds threaten air traffic

Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:21
  #1121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Costa Packet
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"Eyjafjallajökull has only erupted three times since the Vikings settled the island in the ninth century, most recently nearly two centuries ago when it blew intermittently for 14 months in the early 1820s– an alarming enough prospect for air traffic across the Atlantic. "

Just think ....another 14 months of this

The prospects dont look good ..........



Iceland volcano: an eyeful of Eyjafjallajökull - Telegraph
Air.Farce.1 is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:23
  #1122 (permalink)  
nyt
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: France
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Digitalis, agreed. We all know the world is neither black nor white but ash grey
nyt is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:26
  #1123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Age: 66
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pragmatism must win out.
Theres the rub......who will sign off on it?
eastern wiseguy is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:27
  #1124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Not flying indefinately is not an alternative. Pragmatism must win out.
It will.

We have to demonstrate the degree of safety vs risk in order to satisfy many.

A No risk objective is unachieveable when we fly. Acceptable risk is known and understood by only a few. Many people who post on forums do not understand risk management and what decides acceptable risk.
lomapaseo is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:29
  #1125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Costa Packet
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
have been following the NATS news page closely since this all started and this afternoon I detect a shift in what they are saying.

IMHO they over-reacted and now need to climb down and save face.

Now they are using words like 'dynamic' and 'We are working closely with Government, airports and airlines, and airframe and aero engine manufacturers to get a better understanding of the effects of the ash cloud and to seek solutions.' I bet it will all be over by tomorrow and a statement along the lines of ' after extensive testing and in consultation with enging manufactures etc etc...the ban will be lifted from ??:??hrs

I hope I'm right.
I doubt if anyone from NATS will climb down. Corporate manslaughter legislation would hang them from the highest tree if one or more deaths occurred. Safety is always their highest priority, and even though NATS is losing revenue no one would have the b***s to lift the restriction whilst ash was still in the atmosphere
Air.Farce.1 is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:31
  #1126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Miami
Age: 59
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
God...save us from those trying to save us!
dc10fr8k9 is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:31
  #1127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Samsonite
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Also how can anyone doubt the damage to engines when you see that Fighter jet engine on the Sky News reports?
The one where Zee (Finnish) Govt put out the before and after pics of the engines to justify their decision to ground everyone?

Ohh, wait where did those "before" pics disappear too?
AEST is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:31
  #1128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: amsterdam
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
theory german airports open

The news about the german airports that they are open now:

When look to the position of those airports to my opinion although i am a stupid dutchman as read above is because the could be simple: that in general when study the animations the dust in fact mostly split up 2 directions.
So the midle section to my speculation has not same density as left and right.

When geograph. look to the german airports who opened well than it fits my theory.
Could be that the midle is like 2 curtains open and go up to dusseldorf next 24 ours.

Offcourse dutch are stupid so we can make stupid theories.

I wonder what other theory better fits the line of german unlocks.
So why hamburg not? see above....

We see what happens after 20.00.

I have some more theories but because i am stupid i will think first from now on before post here lol

sorry for my stupid contributions....

73's
430tststs is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:36
  #1129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Take your pick
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Westland Seaking landed in Regents park 2 hours ago, so someone is flying.

Rather disturbed my picnic though!
Sporky is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:37
  #1130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Third planet from the sun
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mountee
Also how can anyone doubt the damage to engines when you see that Fighter jet engine on the Sky News reports?
Nobody will contradict that volcanic ash can have such an effect on engines.
I would like to know what kind of conditions that fighter was flying in when that damage occurred.

I bet it was not in a clear blue sky, clear of all visible fumes!
sabenaboy is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:41
  #1131 (permalink)  
Beady Eye
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,495
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by AEST
You forgot to mention that Zee Govt is the largest shareholder w 49% of the shares. Which means that it will appoint most board members and approve any executives.
Yes the UK government is the largest shareholder at 49%, airline group have 46% and employees have 5%. No the government does not appoint or approve the executives.
Do you still maintain that it's a private company, or would you rather admit it's Zee Govt pretending to be a private company run by Politicians.
I don't need to admit anything, as an employee I can very clearly see and am very clearly aware that it is a private company.

BD
BDiONU is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:42
  #1132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Strategic hamlet
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
KLM 867 ash encounter

Found this on Youtube today

Massey1Bravo is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:43
  #1133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: india
Age: 59
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
solutions

may i suggest a solution i have not heard yet
--- flight plan all flights BELOW 20k feet till clear of ash. I KNOW .lots more fuel but if worked out and tickets charged accordingly there yiou are . even long haul flights could be planned to climb after cloud and continue . most have the fuel capacity . i stand back and await brickbats
thinkingpilot is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:45
  #1134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
According to reporting from the Finnish Air Force, the F18s did not fly in or near any cloud formations and did not see the dust particles that caused the damage.
Vick11 is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:45
  #1135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: London Under EGLL(LHR) 27R ILS
Age: 31
Posts: 500
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BAW9156 - Just taxied - going Cardiff doing a test flight at FL310/FL320
HeathrowAirport is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:45
  #1136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: in a hotel
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
NATS will in some way 'pass the buck' because they absolutely have to. Planes will not fall out of the sky.
They will say Manufactures will issue SB's to maintainance organisations that engine inspection times will be reduced.
There has to be an acceptable and managable risk and this is how NATS will justify opening up the airspace.
RAPA Pilot is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:46
  #1137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: sunny side
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Been watching this event unfold and like many here was amazed at the reaction of NATS on day one to close airspace seemingly on the computer predictions of cloud dissipation. We continue to look at the clear blue skies as billions go up in smoke ,not just airline losses but the wider economy .
Well done to those operators who are getting airborne to conduct real evaluation of the environment and no doubt whoever made the decision to shut down are now trying to find a way out of the hole they have dug for themselves.
Air operators and aircraft commanders make decisions prior to and during every flight as to the safe conduct of that flight taking account of many factors including environmental conditions with reference to the regulations in their ops manuals which have been approved by the aviation authority and aircraft manufacturer. The ANSPs role is to coordinate the flow of traffic and ensure separation . They appear to have acted outside their remit this week as I don't believe they are qualified to decide whether it is safe for any or all aircraft to operate in this perceived threat .
No need for heroes but lets get back to the real world.
firewall is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:47
  #1138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Samsonite
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes the UK government is the largest shareholder at 49%, airline group have 46% and employees have 5%. No the government does not appoint or approve the executives.
One of the curious things about any company is that the owners make decisions, and the major owner make the most important decisions.

Amongst these you will find the appointment/approval of board members and executives.

.... and closing the airspace or eventually opening it up again

The folks down at the shop floor (or in front of that radar screen) aren't normally privy to these discussions.
AEST is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:49
  #1139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: L.A.
Age: 56
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Also how can anyone doubt the damage to engines when you see that Fighter jet engine on the Sky News reports?

But nobody has said how close to the really thick stuff he went. Knowing some fighter-jocks, they went quite close indeed.

That's why we need more data. That's why Willie Walsh is following my suggestion to fly a 747 through the ash.
silverstrata is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 16:49
  #1140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,803
Received 134 Likes on 63 Posts
pleeeze get off the back of NATS - the Air Traffic Service [you know, don't bump into each other, that sort of thing?]

Aircraft operations are determined by the CAA and the Operating Company ... and a whole bunch of other people too!
MPN11 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.