Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Ash clouds threaten air traffic

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Ash clouds threaten air traffic

Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:20
  #1081 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Stansted
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Call me a chicken but last time i looked before i put on my uniform and stepped into my 737 it didnt have TEST PILOT written on it anywhere. I aint going anywhere near the skies until the experts say OK. By experts I mean profs who know about this stuff not some pilots from Holland and Germany.
Sat at home enjoying the weather and rerun of the Grand Prix.
Say Mach Number is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:22
  #1082 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Deepest Dark Afrika
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
@ Penko
Marconiphone, so just what do you call those KLM, Lufthansa and Condor pilots who are flying right now in search of a solution? It's nice to say that the ice may even make this ash even more dangerous (please give a link to this, not heard it before), but that does not answer the question: is there enough of the stuff up here to do any damage?
There was a post much earlier in this thread where one of the experts described that what happens is that when the lava hits the ice of the covering glacier: It freezes into glass; then the pressure builds up and it explodes - which shatters the previously frozen glass into sharp-edged shards of glass.
This makes it different from sand because (a) sand has rounded edges, and (b) the melting point of sand is way above the temperatures encountered in a jet engine, whereas the glass (more accurately, silicate) has a melting point considerably lower than the temperatures in a jet engine.

OK?
Feline is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:24
  #1083 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Choroni, sometimes
Posts: 1,974
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
By experts I mean profs who know about this stuff not some pilots from Holland and Germany.
Good one
hetfield is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:26
  #1084 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: .
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hello JetII

Last edited by Nemrytter; 30th Oct 2017 at 15:15.
Nemrytter is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:28
  #1085 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Argentina
Age: 77
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Engineering aproach

As mentioned by jcjeant in 791

Seem's they forget the volcanic ashes

and if there is no measurement of Volcanic ash density....

seems we are in bad shape to establish procedures.

I think is time to a more engineering aproach....
peck is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:29
  #1086 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In the Chalfonts
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BA 747 test flight

Announced on BBC News a few minutes ago that the BA 747 test flight planned for this evening (but still apparently subject to confirmation) will have just 5 people on board including Willie Walsh.
ChalfontFlyer is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:29
  #1087 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North of England
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
HVO (Lagu Hvolar) seismometer which is the closest to Katla is peaking:
Ërˇi ß st÷­vum vi­ Eyjafjallaj÷kul

Tremor
22 Degree Halo is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:29
  #1088 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,039
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
OK? I thought vulcanic ash was rougher than sand anyway. With the process discribed above, freezing lava on a bed of ice, there can't be that much glass in the sky? How much ice is left to be blown up on a vulcano that has been erupting for almost a week?

Re Dutch and German experts. All you have to do is fly through those dangerous skies and let the engineers on the ground examine the results. A bit more respect for the people who are actually working on a solution might suit us!
PENKO is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:30
  #1089 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Samsonite
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
By experts I mean profs who know about this stuff not some pilots from Holland and Germany.
Oh, you mean like the politicians running the NATS?
AEST is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:32
  #1090 (permalink)  
Dash-7 lover
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Smell of sulphur in the village yesterday and fine sandy dust on the car and that's in Cornwall. I believe Skybus continued operating between NQY and ISC up until yesterday when the found ash onone of their Twotters. BIH helicopters from Penzance have since stopped. I've stood all my crew down for tomorrow and cancelled everything. It makes for a quiet day.

Going to bring some old tins of paint in and redecorate the office tomorrow!
 
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:33
  #1091 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Third planet from the sun
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Now that seems a very fair proposal!

Originally Posted by Young Paul
Aw, look, it's really not hard to do research. Launch an aeroplane, let it fly around for a couple of hours, then when it gets down, take the engine apart. It's not like the airlines, pilots or engineers have much else to do with their time at the moment.

Better still, launch five, into areas with forecast different concentrations. Keep then within a safe distance of airfields. Stick a couple of observers on each to additionally report anything odd, provide additional support in case anything does go wrong. There are about a thousand aircraft sitting around doing nothing, at a guess, and the airlines are collectively losing hundreds of millions of pounds a day. There is no shortage of pilots who would be more than happy to fly a "weathership". If the crew are really freaked by something, head for home as soon as anything deviates from normal - in the knowledge that you have the undivided attention of ATC, fire services, airports .....
Couldn't agree more
sabenaboy is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:34
  #1092 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Choroni, sometimes
Posts: 1,974
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
will have just 5 people on board including Willie Walsh
@say mach number

Are these people at your taste?
hetfield is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:35
  #1093 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Samsonite
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A return fire question to you. How many deaths need to spared for you to say that the ban was worth it?
Brilliant observation, if we shut down forever we'll be saving lots of lives from avoided accidents (in fact we should shut down those areas not affected by the volcano too given that some accidents will happen there too. If the Poles had forbidden any and all flights undoubtedly the Katyn accident would have been avoided)
AEST is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:37
  #1094 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North of England
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
On this cam it's clearly erupting still

Eyjafjallaj÷kull frß Valahn˙k
22 Degree Halo is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:39
  #1095 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Found in Toronto
Posts: 615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Say Mach Number
Call me a chicken but last time i looked before i put on my uniform and stepped into my 737 it didnt have TEST PILOT written on it anywhere. I aint going anywhere near the skies until the experts say OK. By experts I mean profs who know about this stuff not some pilots from Holland and Germany.
Sat at home enjoying the weather and rerun of the Grand Prix.
I guess from your response and the aircraft you fly, that you have never flown near active volcanoes before.

After 30 years and 18,000 hours, I have flown near near lots of active volcanoes in the Pacific and Caribbean. Occasionally I have had to re-route around ash clouds of those that erupt while in flight.

I am having a difficult time understanding what appears to be a large scale over reaction to a world wide phenomenon which happens quite regularly.
Lost in Saigon is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:44
  #1096 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There is a solution for almost every problem.
http://i43.tinypic.com/21c5hfd.jpg
hansw is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:46
  #1097 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
GSLOC are you sure it's stopped, we all want to hear that it has...fingers crossed!
VeroFlyer is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:48
  #1098 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,039
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Airspace may open tomorrow
Yep, thanks to the idiots from Germany and Holland I presume?
Will the nay sayers on here subsequently refuse to work tomorrow?

Good news anyway, but once we resume flight, we as air crew will need some UNAMBIGUOUS sensible information as to what we are to be careful of once up in the air. Is it the invisible cloud of the last few days? Or should we just look out for the nasty brown stuff? Might that cirrus cloud be ash, or was that just overreaction from NATS? We desperately need that info clearly.
PENKO is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:49
  #1099 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SPAIN
Age: 60
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Spanish airports reopen

Acording to AENA the following airports reopen today from 15:30

Barcelona, Girona, Reus, Sabadell, Palma de Mallorca, Menorca, Son Bonet, Asturias, Santander, Bilbao, San Sebastißn, Vitoria, Pamplona, Logro˝o, Huesca y Zaragoza
Overhaul is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2010, 15:51
  #1100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North of England
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Behind the cumulus when there is a small break in cloudcover, it's for sure still erupting..
22 Degree Halo is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.