ethiopian airlines aircraft down near Beirut
Guest
Posts: n/a
He stated in a press conference, that the fact that severed extremities from casualties were retrieved (sorry for the graphic image) leads to the conclusion, that the airplane exploded in the air, which is wrong. The forces of an impact of an intact fuselage can have the same effect.
Much of the speculation/reports of bombs etc. is based on this statement, along with what "eye witnesses" perceived to have seen.
I didn't want to insult anyone, "dumb" wasn't the best choice. "Incompetent" was I was looking for, in the sense: Not his area of expertise and therefore not his call.
Much of the speculation/reports of bombs etc. is based on this statement, along with what "eye witnesses" perceived to have seen.
I didn't want to insult anyone, "dumb" wasn't the best choice. "Incompetent" was I was looking for, in the sense: Not his area of expertise and therefore not his call.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Search operation
An interesting snippet from Independent Beirut correspondent Robert Fisk:
Robert Fisk’s World: Scenes from a busy Beirut correspondent's notebook - Robert Fisk, Commentators - The Independent
Note: As far as I have seen on the web, the reason for the crash of Malev flight 240 is officially still unknown. And Fisk doesn't imply, that the real plane wasn't found subsequently.
And what did the Odyssey Explorer find? First of all, it found another aircraft at the bottom of the sea – not the Ethiopian plane. I think it was probably the hull of the Hungarian Malev aircraft accidentally hit by a shell in 1975 at the start of the civil war. No one survived.
Note: As far as I have seen on the web, the reason for the crash of Malev flight 240 is officially still unknown. And Fisk doesn't imply, that the real plane wasn't found subsequently.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arroyo
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arroyo
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Canadian aviation expert: pilot error no primary cause in this kind of crashes
Food for thoughts. And for U.S. lawyers :
Source: The Daily Star - Lebanon News - Air crash victims likely knew of impending deaths
“The loss of control in flight is nearly always initiated by a mechanical failure of the aircraft … pilot error is not the primary cause in those kind of crashes. This crash is a loss of control in flight,” said Vermij, who has over 30 years experience in investigating air disasters.
He added that the evidence so far obtained on the flight was “not in line with any type of pilot error that I have experienced.”
Vermij also questioned the veracity of some reports on the discovery of flight recorders which has suggested memory units were located separately to the rest of the black boxes.
“I know that with this particular crash it was reported that the memory unit had separated from the black box and I have never encountered any such situation,” he said.
Guest
Posts: n/a
... aviation expert Max Vermij told reporters Monday in a news conference with US legal firm Ribbeck Law.
(...)
Chicago-based Ribbeck Law has begun multi-million dollar proceedings against plane manufacturer Boeing on behalf of the relatives of flight ET409 victims. Each family member can commence litigation procedures with a view of compensation, according to Ribbeck’s Attorney at Law Manuel von Ribbeck.
Ribbeck added that the results of official investigations were not relevant in establishing liability for the crash.
“Our investigation can be done in a much shorter time [than the official investigation] provided we are given the information we need. Official investigators are not relevant. The judge decides what went wrong based on the testimonies from the victims’ families and the testimonies of the defendants.”
(...)
Chicago-based Ribbeck Law has begun multi-million dollar proceedings against plane manufacturer Boeing on behalf of the relatives of flight ET409 victims. Each family member can commence litigation procedures with a view of compensation, according to Ribbeck’s Attorney at Law Manuel von Ribbeck.
Ribbeck added that the results of official investigations were not relevant in establishing liability for the crash.
“Our investigation can be done in a much shorter time [than the official investigation] provided we are given the information we need. Official investigators are not relevant. The judge decides what went wrong based on the testimonies from the victims’ families and the testimonies of the defendants.”
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arroyo
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not really... 
And he claims a very broad field of expertise
:
Impressive C.V. anyway 
:
Accident Cause Analysis Inc. - MAX VERMIJ CV
And he claims a very broad field of expertise
:
Accident Cause Analysis Inc. provides independent investigation consulting services relating to complete or detail analysis and reconstruction of accidents, incidents and fires involving everything from:
° major commercial airliners to small private aircraft
° large floating oil rigs to private fishing boats
° 32 wheel trucks to private automobiles
° industrial buildings to simple pieces of equipment
° major commercial airliners to small private aircraft
° large floating oil rigs to private fishing boats
° 32 wheel trucks to private automobiles
° industrial buildings to simple pieces of equipment
:Accident Cause Analysis Inc. - MAX VERMIJ CV
pre-crash terror
Is this additive? because I experience this every time I feel a lurch or plunge in the air. I wish for the day that I get killed because my heirs will be rich and so will the lawyers and the world will be happier.
Is this additive? because I experience this every time I feel a lurch or plunge in the air. I wish for the day that I get killed because my heirs will be rich and so will the lawyers and the world will be happier.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't believe what you read in the Papers....
If you check the threads of any Boeing air crash in the past 5 years, you will spot the same US lawyers and their "expert" - saying the same old thing to grieving families - join with us and sue Boeing in Chicago....
I was contacted by a family from this tragedy today. They were aghast and upset that US lawyers were parading around Beirut urging legal action in the US, and that they had been called 15 times on the phone and in person by agents for the US lawyers urging them to attend "briefing sessions".
The truth is that no lawsuit has actually been filed in Chicago. The further truth is that it is very unlikely that any US Court will hear this particular case, even if there is damning evidence of a product defect (which to date there is not). The other truth is that these Particular US lawyers generally get other US lawyers to do their cases for them....
Draw your own conclusions....
I was contacted by a family from this tragedy today. They were aghast and upset that US lawyers were parading around Beirut urging legal action in the US, and that they had been called 15 times on the phone and in person by agents for the US lawyers urging them to attend "briefing sessions".
The truth is that no lawsuit has actually been filed in Chicago. The further truth is that it is very unlikely that any US Court will hear this particular case, even if there is damning evidence of a product defect (which to date there is not). The other truth is that these Particular US lawyers generally get other US lawyers to do their cases for them....
Draw your own conclusions....
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arroyo
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ Swiss Cheese
Dear Emmentaler,
For the little I know of the U.S. judicial system, I would be ready to believe you blindly. But you are not bringing a single piece of evidence for your allegation. Please, elaborate and let us know what precedents you are referring to.
As far as I know, filing a complaint with some reasonable hope to be successful in court requires quite some time and steady work to dig into the case. My guess is that if a lawsuit is now being prepared, the corresponding complaint will be timely filed.
Cheers Swiss Cheese,
Ettore
For the little I know of the U.S. judicial system, I would be ready to believe you blindly. But you are not bringing a single piece of evidence for your allegation. Please, elaborate and let us know what precedents you are referring to.
As far as I know, filing a complaint with some reasonable hope to be successful in court requires quite some time and steady work to dig into the case. My guess is that if a lawsuit is now being prepared, the corresponding complaint will be timely filed.
Cheers Swiss Cheese,
Ettore
Guest
Posts: n/a
Lebanese Prime Minister meets victims' families
On Tuesday, Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri and others met families of the victims. Some interesting points:
- A report was handed over, "that answers all the questions raised by media in the wake of the accident"
- In a press conference afterwards Information Minister Tarek Mitri declined to address the leaks about cause of accident directly. "Asked about rumors attributing the plane crash to a pilot error, Mitri said that this issue required clarification".
- "When asked for reasons that search parties spent 14 days looking in a location that turned out to be far away from the crash area, Mitri attributed this to the fact that search teams were distracted by signals they erroneously thought had come from the black box"
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arroyo
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
a/c intact when it hit the water, according to Libanese Army, says Info Minister
The information minister Tarek Mitri told the press that the airplane was intact when it hit the water and exploded at impact, referring to an inquiry led by the Libanese army. He stated that the fireball seen by witnesses above the sea was a reflection of the explosion at the surface.
Source: L'Orient-Le Jour | Politique Liban | Crash de l?Ethiopian Airlines*: l?enquête peut encore prendre des semaines
« L'enquête de l'armée confirme que l'avion s'est désintégré au contact de l'eau. L'impact était tel qu'il y a eu explosion. Ce qu'on a vu en haut, c'était le reflet », a expliqué le ministre en référence à des propos de témoins qui avaient affirmé avoir vu « une boule de feu » plonger en mer.
Guest
Posts: n/a
He also said that there are no plausible hints for any kind of sabotage ("nous n'avons encore aucune indication rendant cette hypothèse plausible") - sending a message there to the Ethiopians, who would very like not exclude such a possibility.
And they have a preliminary report, which they will not publish for "legal" reasons. Only the final report will be published, which could take "weeks" ("peut prendre des semaines").
Given the conflict with Ethiopian Airlines & Government, I fear these "weeks" could take a while.
Crash d'Ethiopian au Liban: l'enquête peut encore prendre des semaines - Politique - iloubnan.info
And they have a preliminary report, which they will not publish for "legal" reasons. Only the final report will be published, which could take "weeks" ("peut prendre des semaines").
Given the conflict with Ethiopian Airlines & Government, I fear these "weeks" could take a while.
Crash d'Ethiopian au Liban: l'enquête peut encore prendre des semaines - Politique - iloubnan.info
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arroyo
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Two years to six years...
in the somehow similar and highly controversial case of Flash Airlines flight 604, it took a little bit more than two years to get a... highly controversial "final" report from the Egyptian government. 
It took three more years to have an intermediary report from an independant investigation committee handed out to a French court, which had ordered it. That report lead to quite different conclusions. Which hasn't eased the controversy.
It took three more years to have an intermediary report from an independant investigation committee handed out to a French court, which had ordered it. That report lead to quite different conclusions. Which hasn't eased the controversy.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tampa
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Funeral Controversy
A friend of mine lost her brother on the flight- he was headed back to work in Angola. They held the funeral last week but it wasn't anything standard.
For starters in the first few days after the crash they took blood samples from the family so they can later identify the "body parts" through DNA. About 3 weeks after the accident the authorities claimed to have already identified all the passengers' remains.
None of my friend's family saw anything- the hospital just informed them that they found him. It took another week for the authorities to release him, but no one was allowed to open the coffins or see what was inside. They escorted the coffin with about a dozen internal security guards ensuring that no one gets close to the coffin until it was at the cemetery.
At the funeral itself there were even more police/security officials & even a firetruck with water cannons (to disperse the crowd in case someone did get too close) making sure the coffin wasn't tampered with until it was in the ground.
Rumors have it that the government didn't really find much of the body parts, and even another passenger who's body was found in the few days after the crash "shrunk"
to 25% as if they were dividing the body parts and distributing them amongst the families just to give them all closure.
Some other rumors even said the coffins could've been empty.
there's no source for my story as I was an eye witness to the whole process last Friday from the hospital ambulance being escorted by 5 police cars & 3 4x4s through the frantic scenes at the funeral itself...
Lots of screaming, crying, shouting... especially from the widow- good thing u weren't there-
why so much security? what was really in those coffins?
The controversy continues...
For starters in the first few days after the crash they took blood samples from the family so they can later identify the "body parts" through DNA. About 3 weeks after the accident the authorities claimed to have already identified all the passengers' remains.
None of my friend's family saw anything- the hospital just informed them that they found him. It took another week for the authorities to release him, but no one was allowed to open the coffins or see what was inside. They escorted the coffin with about a dozen internal security guards ensuring that no one gets close to the coffin until it was at the cemetery.
At the funeral itself there were even more police/security officials & even a firetruck with water cannons (to disperse the crowd in case someone did get too close) making sure the coffin wasn't tampered with until it was in the ground.
Rumors have it that the government didn't really find much of the body parts, and even another passenger who's body was found in the few days after the crash "shrunk"
to 25% as if they were dividing the body parts and distributing them amongst the families just to give them all closure. Some other rumors even said the coffins could've been empty.
there's no source for my story as I was an eye witness to the whole process last Friday from the hospital ambulance being escorted by 5 police cars & 3 4x4s through the frantic scenes at the funeral itself...
Lots of screaming, crying, shouting... especially from the widow- good thing u weren't there-
why so much security? what was really in those coffins?
The controversy continues...
Ectophile
Well your advice is solid
but will it be followed? The solictations from the lawyers is to gain an upperhand for themselves should any discovery be made.
Personally I wouldn't go to a lawyer based on this solicitation, but then I believe in what you said in the article.
Well your advice is solid
but will it be followed? The solictations from the lawyers is to gain an upperhand for themselves should any discovery be made.
Personally I wouldn't go to a lawyer based on this solicitation, but then I believe in what you said in the article.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Germany
Age: 67
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
Sorry but I don't buy it .....
The familly have the right to check what is in ... or if they are denied (by wich law ???) you can assume the Lebanon regime is a dictature.
but no one was allowed to open the coffins or see what was inside.
The familly have the right to check what is in ... or if they are denied (by wich law ???) you can assume the Lebanon regime is a dictature.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arroyo
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Press: Ethiopian to hire consulting firm on data recording machines
"Ethiopian to hire consulting firm on data recording machines" says the Adis Abeba based "Reporter". But, frankly, I don't see how a third party with no mandate from the authorities could get access to the CVR Is there any known precedent ? I'd bet it's again pure propaganda...
The Reporter - English Version - Ethiopian to hire consulting firm on data recording machines
Is there any known precedent ? I'd bet it's again pure propaganda... The Reporter - English Version - Ethiopian to hire consulting firm on data recording machines
Guest
Posts: n/a
Obviously, Ethiopia feels Lebanese authorities were too quick to free themselves of blame (no sabotage, the pilots didn't follow ATC instructions, and then the pilots' error press leaks). The international good standing of EA is a matter of great pride in the country. I wished, Lebanon would go ahead with publishing the report & CVR and FDR data and give simultaneously EA direct access to all the evidence. That way, the investigation would go "on the record" and the Ethiopians can have their own inquiry.