ethiopian airlines aircraft down near Beirut
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Hi,
This let me wonder why the ICAO still in place.
This office .. all their "laws" .. seem's meaningless (Lebanon and Ethiopia are members of the ICAO )
I wished, Lebanon would go ahead with publishing the report & CVR and FDR data and give simultaneously EA direct access to all the evidence. That way, the investigation would go "on the record" and the Ethiopians can have their own inquiry.
This office .. all their "laws" .. seem's meaningless (Lebanon and Ethiopia are members of the ICAO )
This let me wonder why the ICAO still in place.
This office .. all their "laws" .. seem's meaningless (Lebanon and Ethiopia are members of the ICAO )
This office .. all their "laws" .. seem's meaningless (Lebanon and Ethiopia are members of the ICAO )
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Hi,
Hence the "laws" in my post.
BTW .. in the case of exchange of informations about a accident this must be a law and not simply guidelines or recommandations.
How does a participant survey can work peacefully and with efficacity if they don't receive any evidence that the other(s) has ?
Is this the way to investigate the causes of an accident and thus have opportunities to increase security?
I think it's a mistake to allow (for the abscence of laws) competition or animosity among the different parties involved in an investigation.
They are not laws.
BTW .. in the case of exchange of informations about a accident this must be a law and not simply guidelines or recommandations.
How does a participant survey can work peacefully and with efficacity if they don't receive any evidence that the other(s) has ?
Is this the way to investigate the causes of an accident and thus have opportunities to increase security?
I think it's a mistake to allow (for the abscence of laws) competition or animosity among the different parties involved in an investigation.
Last edited by jcjeant; 8th Mar 2010 at 14:55.
I think it's a mistake to allow (for the abscence of laws) competition or animosity among the different parties involved in an investigation
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I have always been impressed by the general tone of this forum in that contributors in the main go where the facts lead them. This makes good sense as both those up front and SLF like myself have a strong interest in learning from accidents so as not to repeat them. Sadly the notion that an objective truth even exists is rare these days, especially when financial issues and national pride are involved. In a case like this one, it may be that what comes out on PPRuNe is as close as we will ever get to understanding what happened.
I have always been impressed by the general tone of this forum in that contributors in the main go where the facts lead them. This makes good sense as both those up front and SLF like myself have a strong interest in learning from accidents so as not to repeat them. Sadly the notion that an objective truth even exists is rare these days, especially when financial issues and national pride are involved. In a case like this one, it may be that what comes out on PPRuNe is as close as we will ever get to understanding what happened.
However, in spite of what gets officially released to the general public the aviation professionals eventually learn enough to take a lesson from the accident.
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Has anything of substance been released in recent days. You would think that the "teams" representing various parties would release information, particular if it shed light in the direction they were seeking.
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jmmilner:
Sadly the notion that an objective truth even exists is rare these days, especially when financial issues and national pride are involved.
Sadly the notion that an objective truth even exists is rare these days, especially when financial issues and national pride are involved.
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Has anything of substance been released in recent days. You would think that the "teams" representing various parties would release information, particular if it shed light in the direction they were seeking.
On January 25, 2010, Ethiopian Airlines Flight ET 409 crashed into the Mediterranean Sea shortly after take-off from Beirut International Airport in Lebanon. Our search vessel, Ocean Alert, was operating near the area and had been using the Beirut port for fuel and supplies during these operations. In the weeks prior to the ET409 crash, Odyssey management had been negotiating an agreement with the Government of Lebanon to partner in a deep-ocean project so Lebanese officials were familiar with the capabilities of Odyssey and the Ocean Alert.
When ET 409 crashed, Lebanese authorities contacted Odyssey and asked the company to assist in the search and recovery efforts. The Alert returned to Beirut and was integrated into search operations that included the Lebanese Navy and Army, the US Navy (USS Ramage) and a German Navy ship, the Laboe.
Before the plane wreckage was discovered, the Government of Lebanon asked Odyssey to provide additional capabilities for more complex technical documentation of the site. Odyssey sent the Odyssey Explorer, which was based in the UK, on the approximate two-week transit to Lebanon to assist. We have tentatively agreed to a payment schedule for services provided which included vessels, management, and shore support. We may also furnish additional services to map the site and recover other parts of the aircraft wreckage if contracted to do so.
Odyssey is continuing negotiations with the Lebanese government for the original project. All operations on this project will be conducted in close coordination with the Government of Lebanon and will include official government observers on board Odyssey vessels. Search operations for this project are expected to commence in March 2010.
When ET 409 crashed, Lebanese authorities contacted Odyssey and asked the company to assist in the search and recovery efforts. The Alert returned to Beirut and was integrated into search operations that included the Lebanese Navy and Army, the US Navy (USS Ramage) and a German Navy ship, the Laboe.
Before the plane wreckage was discovered, the Government of Lebanon asked Odyssey to provide additional capabilities for more complex technical documentation of the site. Odyssey sent the Odyssey Explorer, which was based in the UK, on the approximate two-week transit to Lebanon to assist. We have tentatively agreed to a payment schedule for services provided which included vessels, management, and shore support. We may also furnish additional services to map the site and recover other parts of the aircraft wreckage if contracted to do so.
Odyssey is continuing negotiations with the Lebanese government for the original project. All operations on this project will be conducted in close coordination with the Government of Lebanon and will include official government observers on board Odyssey vessels. Search operations for this project are expected to commence in March 2010.
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VoA News: Lawyer cautions about Ethiopian Airlines crash reports
A lawyer, different from the others, talking on Voice of America about being cautious with "gross speculation" 
VOA News - Lawyer cautions about Ethiopian Airlines crash reports
VOA News - Lawyer cautions about Ethiopian Airlines crash reports
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Sea Search
Odyssey Explorer is about at 34.3646N/34.7278E and moving at about 0.2 knots in 190 deg direction.
Use this link to get near real-time info from the onboard AIS system:
Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions
The Beirut station is currently offline, meaning no new data from the area near Beirut.
Use this link to get near real-time info from the onboard AIS system:
Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions
The Beirut station is currently offline, meaning no new data from the area near Beirut.
Last edited by Diversification; 27th Mar 2010 at 17:35.
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Addis Fortune Magazine: Three Groups of Lawyers to Sue Boeing over ET409
Nothing new on what happened, but a fairly good round-up on the would-be legal battlefield...
Three Groups of Lawyers to Sue Boeing over ET409
Three Groups of Lawyers to Sue Boeing over ET409
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Live Ships Beyrouth Station : Odyssey Explorer moored
The Beyrouth Station of MarineTraffic.com is up again. It shows Odyssey Explorer moored on April 17th., while Ocean Alert has been out to sea off the coast of Northern Lebanon, on a mission most probably not related to ET409, the crash site being South of Beyrouth, off Khalde.
Any news, anyone ?
Any news, anyone ?
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The clock continues to turn with apparently no further info. Have all search efforts been discontinued, and has any info been released relative to the recorders? We get very little in updates in the US.
Thanks for any response.
Thanks for any response.
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Search efforts: As far as I remember, the Lebanon gouvernment has declared, that they will stop any salvage efforts unless EA insists on (and probably pay for) it. It seems, nothing is happening, also re the publication of the findings. Media have lost interest completely.
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No Media Coverage In Lebanon
There hasn't been a story or update on the Ethiopian plane here in Beirut for over a month now.
The only thing I heard from that friend of mine that lost her brother on the flight was a group of American lawyers met her family & signed a contract for a lawsuit to be filed in Chicago against Boeing. If they succeed the lawyers will take 30% of the compensation.
Instead they opted for the $25,000 compensation package from the Lebanese Government. Not much considering the deceased has a wife with 3 kids and no more income from his job Angola...
And that's the update from Lebanon for now-
The only thing I heard from that friend of mine that lost her brother on the flight was a group of American lawyers met her family & signed a contract for a lawsuit to be filed in Chicago against Boeing. If they succeed the lawyers will take 30% of the compensation.
Instead they opted for the $25,000 compensation package from the Lebanese Government. Not much considering the deceased has a wife with 3 kids and no more income from his job Angola...
And that's the update from Lebanon for now-
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MadJam,
Thanks for your post from Beirut. Is there any pressure from the relatives of the victims on the local authorities to get more information on the chain of events that lead to the crash ? Sorry, if my question sounds utterly naive...
Ettore
Thanks for your post from Beirut. Is there any pressure from the relatives of the victims on the local authorities to get more information on the chain of events that lead to the crash ? Sorry, if my question sounds utterly naive...
Ettore