ethiopian airlines aircraft down near Beirut

[CirrusF]

Just heard a report on French radio that BEA have released a statement to say that all flight instruments were in full working order until impact.

[wozzo]

AFP reporting:
AFP: Black box data rule out sabotage of crashed plane

BEIRUT — Black box data show sabotage cannot be blamed for the crash of an Ethiopian airliner that killed 90 people when it plunged into the sea off Beirut last month, a Lebanese minister said on Thursday.
Transport Minister Ghazi Aridi said the conclusion was reached based on a preliminary report of technical information found in the flight data recorder following expert analysis in France.
The data "showed that all the aircraft's instruments functioned well until it crashed, which rejects the hypothesis of an act (of sabotage) involving an explosion," Aridi told a news conference at Beirut airport.
His comments came after the office of Information Minister Tareq Mitri issued a statement saying "there is absolutely no evidence an act of sabotage or a terrorist act."

It would also speak against lightning strike or any other technical malfunction, wouldn't it?

[repariit]

Will the search continue?
Current news here and below: ET409 | Ya Libnan | World News Live from Lebanon


ET409 crash: No official announcement before CVR is found

February 11, 2010 ⋅ News Brief
Lebanon’s Transportation and Public Works Minister Ghazi Aridi declared the coastal strip of Naameh off-limits Thursday and vowed not to make any official announcement before the entire second black box VCR ( the cockpit voice recorder ) was found.
“The area of search operations off the coast of Naameh is off-limits,” Aridi said during a press conference at Beirut airport.
Lebanon he said will halt recovery of debris unless it was told otherwise by the Ethiopian Airlines company.
“Some of the plane parts were kept in place. If the insurance company wants to retrieve them and ask Ethiopian Airlines for that, then we will do the job,” said Aridi as he showed pictures of the plane wreckage taken underwater.
Search teams on Wednesday recovered the base of the second black box but an essential piece was missing.
“The base of the second black box from the ill-fated Ethiopian jet has been recovered; however, it appeared that the part containing the memory device of the cockpit voice recorder was separated from the base,” said a statement by the Lebanese army.
Aridi has said all equipment and systems on the Ethiopian Airlines plane functioned properly until the moment it crashed into the Mediterranean last month making it unlikely that the jet was brought down by an explosion.

A combo image shows underwater photos of parts of the Ethiopian Airlines plane which crashed into the Mediterranean sea on January 25, 2010, during a news conference held by Lebanon’s Minister of Public Works and Transport Ghazi Aridi at Beirut international airport, February 11, 2010.
REUTERS/ Jamal Saidi

[atakacs]

“The base of the second black box from the ill-fated Ethiopian jet has been recovered; however, it appeared that the part containing the memory device of the cockpit voice recorder was separated from the base,” said a statement by the Lebanese army.

Anyone remembering a similar event with a modern passenger jet ? Strikes me as rather odd...

[repariit]

Here is some information on the CVR. The pinger is securely fastened to the memory module, and may still be active.








For over 50 years, Honeywell has led the industry in crash survivable recording systems. Honeywell supplies state-of-the-art solid state data, voice and video recorders to support applications in air transport, regional, business jet, military, and helicopter markets.






5.0 SSCVR CRASH PROTECTION DESIGN
The SSCVR's crash survivable memory unit (CSMU) provides for complete data recovery when subjected
to the crash conditions stipulated in ED-56a, and thereby the intent of TSO C-123A :
• Impact Shock 3400G, 6.5 milliseconds
• Penetration Resistance 500 lb. weight from 10 feet
• Static Crush 5000 lbs., 5 minutes
• High Temperature Fire 1100°C, 30 minutes
• Low Temperature Fire 260°C, 10 hours
• Deep Sea Pressure and 20,000 feet, 30 days
• Sea Water/Fluids Immersion Per ED-56a
The CSMU design has been fully qualified to these requirements and, in fact, exceeds them by
considerable margin in key survival areas:
• Impact shock has been successfully demonstrated at 4800 G's
• High temperature fire exposure has been tested to 60 minutes
• Low temperature fire was tested immediately after exposure to 1100°C fire
The superior performance of the CSMU is the result of 30 years experience with designing and producing
protective enclosures. As shown in Figure 6, a very simple package design has been achieved, which not
only contributes to its industry leading survivability characteristics, but also assures a high degree of
maintainability. Compared to competing models, requirements for specialized repair knowledge and
support equipment have been greatly reduced.
Steel Armor
Housing
Housing Liner
Insulation
Upper Module
Thermal Block
FLASH Memory ICs
Memory Board
Access Cover
Steel Armor
Insulation
Cover Liner
Thermal Block
Lower Module
Patent
Protected
Figure 6: CSMU Cutaway View Showing Major Features
The CSMU is easily removed from the top of the SSCVR chassis without having to disassemble the
remainder of the unit. A steel bottom cover provides easy access to the Memory Board. Since the CSMU
uses modular "dry-block" materials for both the insulating liner and thermal mass, there is no need to deal
with the sticky thermal jells or special insulating fluids. The Memory Board design is very simple,
consisting of only a single small circuit card assembly.

[EmBee]

CVR Separation

Anyone remembering a similar event with a modern passenger jet?

I believe the B737 Gol Flight 1907 CVR separated. The CVR ‘chassis’ and the complete FDR were recovered, but the CVR ‘memory unit/module’ was not located until some 3 weeks later. But then that aircraft reportedly experienced high altitude in-flight break-up; not the case here (allegedly).

[lomapaseo]

reparit

Thanks for the pictures.

The picture in the upper left is the most revealing. I would appreciate any similar high resolution pictures of this if anybody has a link

[snowfalcon2]

The picture in the upper left is the most revealing. I would appreciate any similar high resolution pictures of this if anybody has a link

Try http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...u5n7/1000x.jpg

or, if it won't work, at the airliners.net forum

[MD83FO]

wonder why hezballah officials cancelled their reservation at the last minute

[repariit]

Anyone know if a bomb blast would mean burns on recovered bodies?

ET409 crash: No signs of burns from explosion

February 11, 2010 ⋅ News Brief
Al Diyar Newspaper has reported that the investigation indicated that the plane exploded in the air, but the bodies and remains of the victims that were found did not reveal any signs of any burns from the explosion…

[Speed of Sound]

wonder why hezballah officials cancelled their reservation at the last minute

You tell us, seeing as you seem to know something that no-one else knows.

SoS

[Smurfjet]

What is the typical differential pressure on the B738 hull during climb through 6000-9000 feet?

[framer]

On the 73-300's and 400's it's about 3psi at that stage, by 9000' it would be very close to 4psi. i don't fly the 800's but I imagine it would be pretty much the same, happy to be corrected.

[framer]

Can fuel pump switching be ruled out due to;
a) nitrogen inerting (not sure if it had it)
b) fuel load being such that it wouldn't have been required at that stage of flight.
c) Aircraft was too new to have the faulty wiring/pump or whatever it was that caused centre tank explosions in the past.

[parabellum]

Anyone know if a bomb blast would mean burns on recovered bodies?

It is possible that the bodies would not show the effects of a bomb blast if:

a). The bomb was in a location that would cripple the aircraft without the blast reaching the passengers.

b). Not all passengers would be effected by the blast even if the bomb was in a location within or close to the passengers.

Have all the pax bodies been recovered yet? Possibly too early to discount a bomb blast.

[rottenray]

Framer writes:

Can fuel pump switching be ruled out due to;
a) nitrogen inerting (not sure if it had it)
b) fuel load being such that it wouldn't have been required at that stage of flight.
c) Aircraft was too new to have the faulty wiring/pump or whatever it was that caused centre tank explosions in the past.

I've looked around a lot, and I'm not sure!

But www.b737.org.uk has a page on B737 center tank explosions.

More info on their fuel inerting page.

Here is the FAA page on SFAR88 (dealing with fuel tank ignition sources).

Just guessing, I'd say the -800 series had wiring, pump and duty cycle improvements but I doubt they had inerting.

JetPhotos.Net has this page on the frame's history.


Anyone else got firm info on this?


RR

[rottenray]

Para writes:

Have all the pax bodies been recovered yet? Possibly too early to discount a bomb blast.

No, they haven't, and we can assume that all never will be.

Without getting too grizzly, as time goes on less forensic evidence will be available.

In this instance, far more will be learned from the recovered airframe bits and pieces.

As far as the possibility of a bomb blast, we won't really know much more until more conclusive statements regarding the FDR are made and the data pod from the CVR is recovered and read.


Personally, I'm hoping the investigation reveals some issue which can be addressed and fixed so safety in the future is improved.

I think it's much easier to fix airframe and pilot problems than it is to fix the behavior exhibited by discontented, motivated humans.

RR

[repariit]

To review the little bits that we know about the search:
1. Early USN and Ocean Alert reports indicated FDR and CVR pingers located in 4000 feet of water, about six to seven miles off-shore.
2. Odyssey Explorer, with deep water exploration capability, leaves Falmouth, UK to join the search. It is currently about 600 nm west of Beirut with ETA of Feb 15th.
3. Ocean Alert and USNS Grapple search the area including shallow 150 foot depths 2 miles off shore where the FDR, part of the CVR, the horizontal stabilizer and a few other bits of airframe structure are located and recovered by divers from Lebanon's Navy. The CVR's pinger and memory module are still missing.
4. The deep water site has likely been searched via side scan sonar, but is too deep for divers to access. Presumably Odyssey Explorer will get a look at debris already mapped in the deeper water upon arrival Feb 15th.

[begbie553]

Can fuel pump switching be ruled out due to;
a) nitrogen inerting (not sure if it had it)
b) fuel load being such that it wouldn't have been required at that stage of flight.
c) Aircraft was too new to have the faulty wiring/pump or whatever it was that caused centre tank explosions in the past.

I can confim that the a/c did NOT have N2 Generation system installed, couldn't comment on the fuel load, and Mods had been c/out to improve the the Tank Issues per Boeing SB/SL/AD. All to the highest standards.

[iflytb20]

i don't fly the 800's but I imagine it would be pretty much the same, happy to be corrected.

In the -800s at 10,000 feet the Cabin Altitude is 1000 feet and the DP around 4 psi.

I'd say the -800 series had wiring, pump and duty cycle improvements but I doubt they had inerting.

In our fleet, 2 aircraft [leased ones] had the old pumps, so we have to leave 500 Kg in the Center Tank at all times. All the other ones have the modified pumps with the Automatic shutoff. The aircraft delivered after 2008 all have the NGS inerting system installed.

I hope they find the CVR Memory module soon. Chances are it might have been covered up by silt. Any idea how they are searching for it??

Cheers