ethiopian airlines aircraft down near Beirut
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This aircraft was destroyed by an act of terror. The facts will out.
SoS
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Spooky writes:
The American report? What agency in the US has produced such a report? Not saying this is not the case but would like to see something more than your cryptic statement.
The American report? What agency in the US has produced such a report? Not saying this is not the case but would like to see something more than your cryptic statement.
NO US government agency is above suspicion, but there hasn't been any chatter about secret NTSB findings or discovery of motives in this unfortunate accident.
As I imagine things, here is how the various players might like it to work out:
-- Boeing: ANYTHING except a problem with the airframe
-- ETH: ANYTHING except a problem with maintenance or crew
-- BEY: ANYTHING except a problem with security or ATC competence
We have several interests at play here, and there has been some healthy speculation in this thread so far.
If I had to guess at this point, I'd have to say disorientation. Blinded by lightning, perhaps hit by same. High workload resulting in unclear communication, coupled with some astounding event. The frame was apparently in good enough health to not fly into the ocean itself, so there must be some nuances we haven't learned about.
I might have to revise that opinion based upon more FDR information.
Yes, there were military training exercises being conducted in the region, but, generally speaking, equipment is a bit more sophisticated now and so are operators. The chance of a training mission loosing a live missile are close to 0. The chance of a training mission loosing a missile with active and viable seeking capability is close to 0.
Yes, B737 did have center tank wiring and pump issues, but given the number of op hours, even unfixed, this problem is statistically irrelevant. Only a few exploded (not a comfort to next of kin, I know) but there are thousands of the family in the air at any second.
Yes, it could be terrorism, but that just doesn't play well. Any possible motive doesn't match the mix of souls on board.
As I stated earlier, I hope this ends up being a problem with frame or crew training, something that can be "fixed" as it were.
RR
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US Odyssey Explorer set to join airline crash search
A good round-up of the situation: The Daily Star - Politics - US Odyssey Explorer set to join airline crash search
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Odyssey Explorer is now just six miles form Beirut. It appears to be heading into the port. Live Ships Map - AIS - Vessel Traffic and Positions
Ocean Alert is now tied up at the pier.
Ocean Alert is now tied up at the pier.
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Recovery of the victims of this incident has revealed injuries which evidence an onboard explosion of specific origin. Last time I was perhaps too specific as to injuries for the likes of our moderators.
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Pink writes:
Recovery of the victims of this incident has revealed injuries which evidence an onboard explosion of specific origin. Last time I was perhaps too specific as to injuries for the likes of our moderators.
Recovery of the victims of this incident has revealed injuries which evidence an onboard explosion of specific origin. Last time I was perhaps too specific as to injuries for the likes of our moderators.
RR
Got links? Statements? Photos?
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Recovery of the victims of this incident has revealed injuries which evidence an onboard explosion of specific origin. Last time I was perhaps too specific as to injuries for the likes of our moderators.
If you are going to post some like the above, then document it, or keep it to your self. Where did you see or read this?
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Israeli conspiracy specialists DEBKA
SoS
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News from Lebanon
Naharnet Newsdesk - 60 Victims Identified, Plane Wreckage Removal Awaits Committee Decision
"recovery of the main wreckage or moving it requires a decision by the international committee investigating the disaster .. the committee is likely to take a decision in this regard on Monday or Tuesday after examining the data and pictures of the plane taken underwater."
The Daily Star - Politics - Judicial committee meets for first time on Ethiopian Airlines crash
"The judicial committee tasked with following up on the Ethiopian Airlines plane crash held its first meeting on Monday" Mostly legal and humanitarian issues, but notes the transfer of information from Ocean Alert to Odyssey Explorer would only take a few minutes, once given approval from the Public Works and Transportation Minister.
"recovery of the main wreckage or moving it requires a decision by the international committee investigating the disaster .. the committee is likely to take a decision in this regard on Monday or Tuesday after examining the data and pictures of the plane taken underwater."
The Daily Star - Politics - Judicial committee meets for first time on Ethiopian Airlines crash
"The judicial committee tasked with following up on the Ethiopian Airlines plane crash held its first meeting on Monday" Mostly legal and humanitarian issues, but notes the transfer of information from Ocean Alert to Odyssey Explorer would only take a few minutes, once given approval from the Public Works and Transportation Minister.
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AIS Understanding What We Can See
In an effort to set expectations regarding "seeing" what is going on on MarineTraffic.com and other AIS web sites, here are a few facts:
1. AIS (Automatic Information System) is designed to be the marine equivalent of TCAS.
2. Each AIS equipped vessel broadcasts a stream of information that provides real time navigation, and identification data that other AIS equipped vessels in VHF range can receive. It allows crossing traffic to know CPA (the closest distance in a crossing course), time to a developing CPA, and the contact information of the opposing/crossing vessel. Unlike radar it works "around corners". You can see vessels behind islands that are blocked to radar. The system is intended to operate as a vessel-to-vessel operation and is a very effective navigation enhancement. It allows the skippers to contact each other via radio to resolve tight crossing situations better than could be done in the VTS (vessel traffic system) environment alone. VTS is something like ATC where a shore based radar/radio site directs traffic.
3. A spin-off benefit of this system is a series of shore stations that receive this AIS data from vessels, and send it to sites such as MarineTraffic.com which plot it on Google maps, and make it available to the world.
4. The shore receiver stations are often volunteer operations. In this case, it appears to be a HAM Radio operator who has set up the Beirut receiver,and the internet link to the web site. There may be computer, internet, and radio issues affecting the delivery of the information to web site observers. Such issues are managed by the unpaid receiver source of the information. We should all thank them for providing the data to us, and realize that they are doing so in their off time at their own expense.
5. I addition, AIS equipped vessels may not be transmitting all of the time. There are international rules requiring them to do so in certain circumstances, but it is a still developing system.
1. AIS (Automatic Information System) is designed to be the marine equivalent of TCAS.
2. Each AIS equipped vessel broadcasts a stream of information that provides real time navigation, and identification data that other AIS equipped vessels in VHF range can receive. It allows crossing traffic to know CPA (the closest distance in a crossing course), time to a developing CPA, and the contact information of the opposing/crossing vessel. Unlike radar it works "around corners". You can see vessels behind islands that are blocked to radar. The system is intended to operate as a vessel-to-vessel operation and is a very effective navigation enhancement. It allows the skippers to contact each other via radio to resolve tight crossing situations better than could be done in the VTS (vessel traffic system) environment alone. VTS is something like ATC where a shore based radar/radio site directs traffic.
3. A spin-off benefit of this system is a series of shore stations that receive this AIS data from vessels, and send it to sites such as MarineTraffic.com which plot it on Google maps, and make it available to the world.
4. The shore receiver stations are often volunteer operations. In this case, it appears to be a HAM Radio operator who has set up the Beirut receiver,and the internet link to the web site. There may be computer, internet, and radio issues affecting the delivery of the information to web site observers. Such issues are managed by the unpaid receiver source of the information. We should all thank them for providing the data to us, and realize that they are doing so in their off time at their own expense.
5. I addition, AIS equipped vessels may not be transmitting all of the time. There are international rules requiring them to do so in certain circumstances, but it is a still developing system.