Ryanair off piste at PIK (23 Dec 2009)
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never said it was down to the iaa...my point was if ryr were so keen on being cheap with regard to standards and maintence etc they wouldnt be based in ireland under an irish flag.....they are hugely keen on safety.As i said before...they can not afford with their business model to have an accident.
@ checkboard: no pax were on board, does that make it okay???what about the hole in the ground it was seconds from creating?!?!if that was a ryr aircraft god knows we would all have heard about it from guys on here....the fact of the matter is the mistake was made and that aircaft was within seconds of an accident!
@ checkboard: no pax were on board, does that make it okay???what about the hole in the ground it was seconds from creating?!?!if that was a ryr aircraft god knows we would all have heard about it from guys on here....the fact of the matter is the mistake was made and that aircaft was within seconds of an accident!
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As for ryr safety, how about the ciampino incident where the skipper was back at work a few days after his sons death, the knock incident, the cork incident. MOL bregging about how ryr can afford to lose 2 hulls.The ezy jet incident at norwich was a test flight. All company have had close shaves, but any company that engages in contract pilots to the extent ryr do is clearly asking for trouble
Irishpilot how long have you been working with ryr as a pilot?, how many airlines have you worked for?just trying to gauge what level of experience you have when forming your opinions
Irishpilot how long have you been working with ryr as a pilot?, how many airlines have you worked for?just trying to gauge what level of experience you have when forming your opinions
@ irishpilot * sigh * 
The reason I added the information I did, wasn't for you - it was for those who read this so that they understand your post could lead them to incorrect assumptions.
Is it important that no passengers were on board on a test flight? You really want me to answer that?
"seconds of an accident"?? Not very good at calculating rates of descent then? Not very good at telling the truth, either?
DCA09WA023
The aircraft was recovered without damage, the height loss was simply due to the pilot flying the aircraft out of the dive - the fact that it wasn't damaged is due to this. The dive recovery was nowhere near 5000 feet.
One day you will work for an another airline, and perhaps realise how much you need to raise your standards.
Merry Christmas
The reason I added the information I did, wasn't for you - it was for those who read this so that they understand your post could lead them to incorrect assumptions.
Is it important that no passengers were on board on a test flight? You really want me to answer that?
"seconds of an accident"?? Not very good at calculating rates of descent then?
Not very good at telling the truth, either?DCA09WA023
The aircraft was recovered without damage, the height loss was simply due to the pilot flying the aircraft out of the dive - the fact that it wasn't damaged is due to this. The dive recovery was nowhere near 5000 feet.
One day you will work for an another airline, and perhaps realise how much you need to raise your standards.
Merry Christmas
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It wasn't EZ maintenance doing the Southend job. The flying skills and reaction of the PIC was excellent. The cockup was down to the fact that on the previous manual reversion flight no entry was made in tech log regarding the trim inputs. The PIC gave a verbal handover to engineer and engineer put the wrong correction into the rods. That was the beginning of Swiss cheese model. The Pic was right to roll to a high bank angle as it helped balance out the g loading. Pilot999 I think you are bashing for the sake of bashing, know the facts first.
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Im guessing from irishpilots posts,he has never flown for an airline and the 1990 might the year of his birth
Serious gaps in his knowledge, a wannabe pay to fly zero to hero for 33k im guessing
Serious gaps in his knowledge, a wannabe pay to fly zero to hero for 33k im guessing
Slim
Its Funny how the "Orange Brigade" manage to stay on the tarmac these days. Why is that please tell me why? I think it is the case that this is a big deal for the "Pikey Brigade".
Its Funny how the "Orange Brigade" manage to stay on the tarmac these days. Why is that please tell me why? I think it is the case that this is a big deal for the "Pikey Brigade".
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OK I'm an ATCO and PPL.I flew with FR in a 732,when there was a large bang and thump right under my seat.I looked out the window,and there was a large oil leak pissing down the left hand side cowling of number 2.
I immediately rang for the cabin crew,and when the chief one arrived,she had a quick glance out the window,and stated ''Eh there all supposed to do that''.
I was stunned as she walked off and started handing out the pot noodles again.Kegworth?
I spoke to an engineer friend who asked if it was grounded.I had no idea but it might have spoiled the 20 min turn round.Needless to say I am very wary of travelling with them,and I'm not surprised they slid off one of the longest runways in the UK.
I immediately rang for the cabin crew,and when the chief one arrived,she had a quick glance out the window,and stated ''Eh there all supposed to do that''.
I was stunned as she walked off and started handing out the pot noodles again.Kegworth?
I spoke to an engineer friend who asked if it was grounded.I had no idea but it might have spoiled the 20 min turn round.Needless to say I am very wary of travelling with them,and I'm not surprised they slid off one of the longest runways in the UK.
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Wasn't there a warning from Danny many threads ago to stop making unjustified libellous accusations about Ryanair lest their solicitors become involved.
Speaking on behalf of circa 2000 flight deck crew, the great majority of whom do a professional job day in day out, I think it is time someone gave those solicitors a call.
These accusations of inherent "gashness" are not even remotely justified or in the slightest bit amusing.
Every company has a smattering of bad apples, with 2000 pilots, there will understandably be a few more than you would find in a company with say 100, percentage wise I have found most companies the same, believe it or not.
If you look at the sheer number of sectors operated daily, and the somewhat "marginal" facilities at some of the destinations served, it is rather difficult to compare Ryanairs record unfavourably with other companies, unless you are voicing some personal agenda.
If these unwarranted accusations don't stop, I will personally stick my oar in and stir up the sh1te in the White House . . . . Oh and BTW if you are looking for an ulterior motive to this stand I am taking, you obviously don't know who I am, I have no longer any axe to grind in that respect.
I am merely sick fed up with unwarranted slanderous accusations concerning my previous PROFESSIONAL colleagues' abilities and standard of operation.
Speaking on behalf of circa 2000 flight deck crew, the great majority of whom do a professional job day in day out, I think it is time someone gave those solicitors a call.
These accusations of inherent "gashness" are not even remotely justified or in the slightest bit amusing.
Every company has a smattering of bad apples, with 2000 pilots, there will understandably be a few more than you would find in a company with say 100, percentage wise I have found most companies the same, believe it or not.
If you look at the sheer number of sectors operated daily, and the somewhat "marginal" facilities at some of the destinations served, it is rather difficult to compare Ryanairs record unfavourably with other companies, unless you are voicing some personal agenda.
If these unwarranted accusations don't stop, I will personally stick my oar in and stir up the sh1te in the White House . . . . Oh and BTW if you are looking for an ulterior motive to this stand I am taking, you obviously don't know who I am, I have no longer any axe to grind in that respect.
I am merely sick fed up with unwarranted slanderous accusations concerning my previous PROFESSIONAL colleagues' abilities and standard of operation.
Last edited by captplaystation; 26th Dec 2009 at 13:57.
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Ahh the Ryanair way threaten and conquer!
Captain play station, I cant believe all are bad apples. But i am guessing most people on here are simply just voicing there observations.
I think most professional pilots would be very shocked and concerned to hear an alegedly Ryan air pilot on this forum saying he de-iced then departed in FZRA!!!
Captain play station, I cant believe all are bad apples. But i am guessing most people on here are simply just voicing there observations.
I think most professional pilots would be very shocked and concerned to hear an alegedly Ryan air pilot on this forum saying he de-iced then departed in FZRA!!!
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Classic ryanair.
The employees don't like people recounting their hellish experiences of their awful company so they threaten legal action.
It doesn't really matter, everyone knows what ryanair are like, they only exist because they are the cheapest and they are only the cheapest because their employees work the hardest for the least in return.
Why does anyone work there? I suppose it must be a 'I couldn't get a job anywhere else' thing. It's a shame really as when these pilots eventually can't put up with it anymore the Ts and Cs in the proper airlines will have had to decrease as they try and compete with ryanair's bottom of the industry wage bills.
The thing is all these ryanair pilots will be the ones complaining when having to work 900 hours at 65 with no real pension to look forward to. Just don't come on here complaining about it.
The employees don't like people recounting their hellish experiences of their awful company so they threaten legal action.
It doesn't really matter, everyone knows what ryanair are like, they only exist because they are the cheapest and they are only the cheapest because their employees work the hardest for the least in return.
Why does anyone work there? I suppose it must be a 'I couldn't get a job anywhere else' thing. It's a shame really as when these pilots eventually can't put up with it anymore the Ts and Cs in the proper airlines will have had to decrease as they try and compete with ryanair's bottom of the industry wage bills.
The thing is all these ryanair pilots will be the ones complaining when having to work 900 hours at 65 with no real pension to look forward to. Just don't come on here complaining about it.
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'whatdoesthisbuttondo' said
I don't know who you work for, is it BA? Or is it one of the other angelic airlines that never have an accident? Let me think, they were BA pilots who overrun the runway in Miami with the former prime minister on board, weren't they? Gosh, not such a dissimiliar incident was it, but ever so funny you didn't mention it!) And presumably you are making that statement knowing captplaystation's experience level? You're not just making that comment for the sake of it? Because it really is such a platitude.
Barbies Boyfriend: you said
Sorry, could you just clarify for me, are you actually hoping for an accident with a 737-800 that potentially kills 200 people (presumably with your wife on board) in order to prove your point that 'this is what it takes'. Please do tell me if I've misunderstood you.
"The employees don't like people recounting their hellish experiences of their awful company so they threaten legal action."
Barbies Boyfriend: you said
'drop one'
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QUOTE "It wasn't EZ maintenance doing the Southend job. The flying skills and reaction of the PIC was excellent. The cockup was down to the fact that on the previous manual reversion flight no entry was made in tech log regarding the trim inputs. The PIC gave a verbal handover to engineer and engineer put the wrong correction into the rods. That was the beginning of Swiss cheese model. The Pic was right to roll to a high bank angle as it helped balance out the g loading. Pilot999 I think you are bashing for the sake of bashing, know the facts first."
So the previous EZ pilot did a test flight, did not fill in the correct paperwork, a verbal handover , Not how i was trained in the RAF and civil world how to do test flights, The handover is more important than the flying.
As to how to unload the aircraft, that is not the correct way. It was very unconventional, unbriefed , and incorrect as stated in the AAIB report. I will not quote the report ,but read it yourself, check the vertical and forward speed and roll out height.
So the previous EZ pilot did a test flight, did not fill in the correct paperwork, a verbal handover , Not how i was trained in the RAF and civil world how to do test flights, The handover is more important than the flying.
As to how to unload the aircraft, that is not the correct way. It was very unconventional, unbriefed , and incorrect as stated in the AAIB report. I will not quote the report ,but read it yourself, check the vertical and forward speed and roll out height.
Minor incident due ineffective lighting highlights PM accepting favours
Nicholas49, re BA @ Miami:
Minor incident due ineffective lighting highlights PM accepting favours
the pilot could not see the lights leading to the taxiway
"The captain believed the lighting on the taxiway was not sufficient to guide him and an airport vehicle was requested to realign the plane,"
“The aircraft was towed onto a taxiway, at which time it proceeded under its own power to the gate.” An inspection revealed no damage to the aircraft or its tires and it subsequently departed on its scheduled return flight to London.
”The taxiway requires a kind of a hard turn; it’s tricky“ the FAA’s Laura Brown said.
"It landed safely on the runway. It slowed down. It was going at taxiway speed and they just missed a turn," she said.
"The prime minister and his family are staying with Robin Gibb, the former Bee Gees star, who has a $10m [£5.1m] house here in Miami Beach," he said.
Downing Street confirmed Mr Blair was on his winter holidays but said it never commented on specific arrangements.
"The captain believed the lighting on the taxiway was not sufficient to guide him and an airport vehicle was requested to realign the plane,"
“The aircraft was towed onto a taxiway, at which time it proceeded under its own power to the gate.” An inspection revealed no damage to the aircraft or its tires and it subsequently departed on its scheduled return flight to London.
”The taxiway requires a kind of a hard turn; it’s tricky“ the FAA’s Laura Brown said.
"It landed safely on the runway. It slowed down. It was going at taxiway speed and they just missed a turn," she said.
"The prime minister and his family are staying with Robin Gibb, the former Bee Gees star, who has a $10m [£5.1m] house here in Miami Beach," he said.
Downing Street confirmed Mr Blair was on his winter holidays but said it never commented on specific arrangements.
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whatdoesthisbuttondo,
I didn't come on this thread as you eluded, to defend the constant erosion of T's &Cs imposed upon my ex colleagues, nor to trumpet the "wonderful" customer care and transparent fare structure the passengers sign up to.
My appearance is simply to lambast the one-sided slating of a body of pilots that in totality are the same as any other airline you can care to mention. For the greater part consciencious professionals, with the odd numpty mixed in . . . . I think it is sad that fellow "professionals" are so quick to jump in with "I remember when they Bla Bla Bla".
Every company has it's cock-ups, the more sectors flown per day, statistically = more cock ups. If the 203/210 aircraft whatever it is today, sat all day on the ground I bet none of this would happen Eh ?
I am sure there were no incidents to speak of on the 25th
Strangely enough, not everyone in Ryanair is there by default, and unable to find another job. The workforce comprises bods from almost any previous company you can name.
Home every night, days off fixed till the next millenium & 38 bases are the good points. There are others too, along with many bad, as you & everyone else are only too fully aware.
I didn't come on this thread as you eluded, to defend the constant erosion of T's &Cs imposed upon my ex colleagues, nor to trumpet the "wonderful" customer care and transparent fare structure the passengers sign up to.
My appearance is simply to lambast the one-sided slating of a body of pilots that in totality are the same as any other airline you can care to mention. For the greater part consciencious professionals, with the odd numpty mixed in . . . . I think it is sad that fellow "professionals" are so quick to jump in with "I remember when they Bla Bla Bla".
Every company has it's cock-ups, the more sectors flown per day, statistically = more cock ups. If the 203/210 aircraft whatever it is today, sat all day on the ground I bet none of this would happen Eh ?
I am sure there were no incidents to speak of on the 25th
Strangely enough, not everyone in Ryanair is there by default, and unable to find another job. The workforce comprises bods from almost any previous company you can name.
Home every night, days off fixed till the next millenium & 38 bases are the good points. There are others too, along with many bad, as you & everyone else are only too fully aware.
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This discussion cracks me up! I can't believe the amount of people that hate RYR so much that it takes away all reason and common sense! To be clear; I am a RYR pilot, but I am no fan of the company, and the way it deals with it's staff and the amount of bullying that's going on. But the fact that some idiots here blame the company for what happened in PIK is unbelievable! It could have happened to anyone of us! In fact it happens all the time, an aircraft broke in two the same day, but nobody blamed that company. 
hypocrits!
hypocrits!
There is some serious thread creep going on here, so I apologise in advance to the moderators for joining in but there are some factual inaccuracies which should be corrected. If the Mods wish to move this reply to the thread on the EZY event please feel free, but at least here it is in the context of the previous posts.
It is probably well known that I have an interest in this subject, my posting history will verify that, but bear in mind that mine is just one view of the event.
The AAIB special bulletin on this event contained several factual inaccuracies. Furthermore it was not circulated to the interested parties in advance of publication due to what can best be described as “political circumstances”. This is a pity as the errors could have been removed. I understand that they will be revisited before publication of the final report. Note the footnote on page 1 of the special report which states that “This information is published to inform the aviation industry and the public of the general circumstances of accidents and must necessarily be regarded as tentative and subject to alteration or correction if additional evidence becomes available.”
The inaccuracies were in the second paragraph of the Engineering Investigation as follows:
“Following the flight, the commander verbally requested that this be addressed during the subsequent maintenance input,” – No he did not. He discussed the test results in the debrief with the maintenance personnel, but it is not the commanders place to request any work to be done, only to report the test results and highlight anything unusual, which he did.
“but elected not to enter it in the tech log, as the level of stabiliser trim required during the test had been within limits.” – Correct, and this is standard practice because if it is within limits it is not a defect. That is what limits are there for.
“The absence of a formal post‑flight debrief” – There was a post flight debrief with all interested parties, what constitutes formal or informal is subjective. We know that the debrief was effective because the engineering tech rep demonstrated his understanding by writing down the correct details in his daily log.
“and formal written record” – Not true. The original test flight schedule with the test results was left with the engineers.
“resulted in the balance tabs, attached to the elevators of the aircraft, being adjusted in the opposite sense to that identified as necessary by the flight test.” – The balance tabs were adjusted in the opposite sense but the reason was a breakdown in communications between the various stages of engineering downstream of the debrief. We should expect more of this in the final report.
Pilot999,
Re your description of the commanders recovery manoeuvre being “unconventional, unbriefed , and incorrect”. It was unconventional as regular UA’s go, but it was the manoeuvre taught him by a very high ranking TP for this particular situation, remember that the controls must be released before the hydraulics could be restored. It was also briefed to the F/O before the flight, albeit with a lot of other briefing info as you would expect. As for incorrect, perhaps yes, but it was exactly what he was trained to do and if other actions had been conducted it would have worked like a charm. Again, expect more in the final report.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, don’t jump to conclusions whilst you only have part of the information. We must trust the AAIB to do their job and publish the definitive facts – then it will be fair game to voice an opinion on the many aspects of this event.
S&L
It is probably well known that I have an interest in this subject, my posting history will verify that, but bear in mind that mine is just one view of the event.
The AAIB special bulletin on this event contained several factual inaccuracies. Furthermore it was not circulated to the interested parties in advance of publication due to what can best be described as “political circumstances”. This is a pity as the errors could have been removed. I understand that they will be revisited before publication of the final report. Note the footnote on page 1 of the special report which states that “This information is published to inform the aviation industry and the public of the general circumstances of accidents and must necessarily be regarded as tentative and subject to alteration or correction if additional evidence becomes available.”
The inaccuracies were in the second paragraph of the Engineering Investigation as follows:
“Following the flight, the commander verbally requested that this be addressed during the subsequent maintenance input,” – No he did not. He discussed the test results in the debrief with the maintenance personnel, but it is not the commanders place to request any work to be done, only to report the test results and highlight anything unusual, which he did.
“but elected not to enter it in the tech log, as the level of stabiliser trim required during the test had been within limits.” – Correct, and this is standard practice because if it is within limits it is not a defect. That is what limits are there for.
“The absence of a formal post‑flight debrief” – There was a post flight debrief with all interested parties, what constitutes formal or informal is subjective. We know that the debrief was effective because the engineering tech rep demonstrated his understanding by writing down the correct details in his daily log.
“and formal written record” – Not true. The original test flight schedule with the test results was left with the engineers.
“resulted in the balance tabs, attached to the elevators of the aircraft, being adjusted in the opposite sense to that identified as necessary by the flight test.” – The balance tabs were adjusted in the opposite sense but the reason was a breakdown in communications between the various stages of engineering downstream of the debrief. We should expect more of this in the final report.
Pilot999,
Re your description of the commanders recovery manoeuvre being “unconventional, unbriefed , and incorrect”. It was unconventional as regular UA’s go, but it was the manoeuvre taught him by a very high ranking TP for this particular situation, remember that the controls must be released before the hydraulics could be restored. It was also briefed to the F/O before the flight, albeit with a lot of other briefing info as you would expect. As for incorrect, perhaps yes, but it was exactly what he was trained to do and if other actions had been conducted it would have worked like a charm. Again, expect more in the final report.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, don’t jump to conclusions whilst you only have part of the information. We must trust the AAIB to do their job and publish the definitive facts – then it will be fair game to voice an opinion on the many aspects of this event.
S&L