Ryanair off piste at PIK (23 Dec 2009)
Gender Faculty Specialist
FR crews have SPECIFIC narrow runway training
- Land in the middle.
- Follow the white and the yellow lines.
Really? How long is the course?!
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how about also visule changes and all that feeling higher than normal and limitations on crosswinds because less wiggle room!
jesus, we can all dumb things down to sound smart.
jesus, we can all dumb things down to sound smart.
Gender Faculty Specialist
ZtH,
Would you require specific wide runway training if you were to land at, for instance, Filton?
Your arguments apply to both, except the crosswind limits I suppose but do you get specific reduced crosswind limit training too?
You may think that following centreline markings is dumbing things down but I'd rather be dumb than the latest winner of the Prestwick stage of the Scottish Rally.
Would you require specific wide runway training if you were to land at, for instance, Filton?
Your arguments apply to both, except the crosswind limits I suppose but do you get specific reduced crosswind limit training too?
You may think that following centreline markings is dumbing things down but I'd rather be dumb than the latest winner of the Prestwick stage of the Scottish Rally.
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MY POINT IS EXTRA TRAINING should never be shouted down as a waste of time!
if the safety dept say they recon there is a threat to the operation and some extra sim time is a good idea to reduce the threat then no one should make a joke of this.
agree or disagree but i will never turn upto any safty training and sit there thinking this is a waste of time, better to listen and use the time to add any usefull points.
if the safety dept say they recon there is a threat to the operation and some extra sim time is a good idea to reduce the threat then no one should make a joke of this.
agree or disagree but i will never turn upto any safty training and sit there thinking this is a waste of time, better to listen and use the time to add any usefull points.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Nobody is shouting except you dear chap.
Now if you can furnish us with some of the specifics of your narrow runway training maybe I can stop giggling to myself and take it more seriously.
You never know I might learn something that could maybe possibly one day save a life.
Now if you can furnish us with some of the specifics of your narrow runway training maybe I can stop giggling to myself and take it more seriously.
You never know I might learn something that could maybe possibly one day save a life.
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i was not shouting,, i had just logged into crewdock which requires caps lock on,,, turned it off after i noticed, but too lazy to hit delete.
in the long run though that would have saved the hassle writing this! doh!
fyi i have not had the training.
in the long run though that would have saved the hassle writing this! doh!
fyi i have not had the training.
Originally Posted by The Real Slim Shady
Did I mention any minimum?
All I said was that FR crews are narrow runway trained: you may wish to note the comments earlier about 30m cleared width etc.
The small, but inescapable training issue is, regardless of the 30M rule, FR crews have SPECIFIC narrow runway training ergo, it isn't such a huge deal for us as it might be for the Orange brigade.
All I said was that FR crews are narrow runway trained: you may wish to note the comments earlier about 30m cleared width etc.
The small, but inescapable training issue is, regardless of the 30M rule, FR crews have SPECIFIC narrow runway training ergo, it isn't such a huge deal for us as it might be for the Orange brigade.
eJ Capts are also narrow runway trained for the 30m destinations we operate to (which I think are a bit shorter than your 30m destinations).
The difference is, our training and culture are such that we do not break the rules and endanger our passengers, whereas Ryanair allegedly do.
If the 23m report is true, then FR are a lethal disgrace.
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Just to clarify the situation at easyJet for 'The Real Slim Shady' regarding narrow runway operations. A 'narrow runway' is anything between 30m an 45m - anything less than 30m is not allowed by us or anyone else. In the last Airbus sim cycle, every single easyJet Airbus captain underwent narrow runway training and are thereby qualified. Since then a handful of Airbus captains have been retrained from the 737 and are not therefore qualified, but the overwhelming majority are. Narrow runways are not a 'big deal' at easyJet but do require special training, which has been provided. All very straightforward and a bit of a non-event, but an event which must be properly trained-for and carried-out nonetheless. I hope that helps clear up Ny misunderstanding.
Is a runway that is cleared to a wet condition to 23m, and then the outside 22m wet snow depth 10mm a narrow runway? Or is it a runway which you can assume full contamination and depart with relevant performance?
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It seems to me that most of the RYR bashing comes from EZY pilots and cabin crew. I have done five years for each, as have many RYR pilots, and all of us agree that wile RYR has its issues, it's a better run and safer organisation than our former employer. We don't fly around on a thimble of fuel. We don't have fatigue inducing or unstable rosters. We have more days off. We rarely have any defects on an aircraft at all, deferred or otherwise. The training is of a similar standard but there is more of it, and commanders are not selected for their sycophancy or company politics. Those, though, are company issues , not issues attributable to the pilots.
That much said, I was always highly impressed by the high average standard of EZY's cabin crew (the best standard I have seen in my four airlines) and their pan-crew CRM (sadly, like elsewhere, it stops at the aircraft door).
So, can we stop the company slagging? They both have their issues, but the pilots at RYR and EZY are of a very similar calibre and both have to deal with some unpleasant company politics. We no different from eachother.
That much said, I was always highly impressed by the high average standard of EZY's cabin crew (the best standard I have seen in my four airlines) and their pan-crew CRM (sadly, like elsewhere, it stops at the aircraft door).
So, can we stop the company slagging? They both have their issues, but the pilots at RYR and EZY are of a very similar calibre and both have to deal with some unpleasant company politics. We no different from eachother.
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We don't fly around on a thimble of fuel.
Neither do easyJet pilots
We don't have fatigue inducing or unstable rosters.
Surely a matter of opinion - everyone's different.
We have more days off.
Do you? Are you sure? I'm at work on 190 days per year on a full-time contract. That's 175 days off including leave.
We rarely have any defects on an aircraft at all, deferred or otherwise.
Neither does easyJet. The new CFM engined 319/320s which I fly are the most reliable aircraft I have flown in 40 years in the cockpit.
The training is of a similar standard but there is more of it.
You do more than two two-day simulator checks, a line check and an SEP day per year do you? That's more than BA as well.
Commanders are not selected for their sycophancy or company politics.
Neither are they at easyJet.
Just my tuppence.
WS
Neither do easyJet pilots
We don't have fatigue inducing or unstable rosters.
Surely a matter of opinion - everyone's different.
We have more days off.
Do you? Are you sure? I'm at work on 190 days per year on a full-time contract. That's 175 days off including leave.
We rarely have any defects on an aircraft at all, deferred or otherwise.
Neither does easyJet. The new CFM engined 319/320s which I fly are the most reliable aircraft I have flown in 40 years in the cockpit.
The training is of a similar standard but there is more of it.
You do more than two two-day simulator checks, a line check and an SEP day per year do you? That's more than BA as well.
Commanders are not selected for their sycophancy or company politics.
Neither are they at easyJet.
Just my tuppence.
WS
Last edited by Wingswinger; 7th Jan 2010 at 07:18.
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I bat for neither of the aforementioned airlines!
BUT, I certainly won't fly the one that frequently keeps testing the 737s unpaved strip abilities. You know who you are.
I suggest you buy the right kit from Boeing before you're next foray off road!
Unpaved Strip Kit
BUT, I certainly won't fly the one that frequently keeps testing the 737s unpaved strip abilities. You know who you are.
I suggest you buy the right kit from Boeing before you're next foray off road!
Unpaved Strip Kit
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Whippersnapper I'd keep my head down if I were you and quit making inane comparisons. You are one of he guys who was so hacked off at EZY that you resigned on the basis of a job offer from an airline that never ever got off the ground (NOW) (or was it THEN) and JP made it clear to you and all of your fellow deluded compatriots that you would never be welcome back at EZY so you ended up with the Harps. Not exactly there through choice are you?
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Brakes to Park
easy was so sh1t that I would have gone to Now even if I could have predicted the future. JP was a fantastic boss though, so selfless.
Still things are better now. Balpa sorted the mess. Why all these cancellations though? Rumours of Crewing problems........ at such a prestigeous Airline?
When's the strike ballot? I just know you will all stand together and be strong like you have in the past.
BTW I gave up left seat 767 to join Ryanair by choice and haven't regretted it for a minute.
Come on BtP ..........LETS FLY!!!
easy was so sh1t that I would have gone to Now even if I could have predicted the future. JP was a fantastic boss though, so selfless.
Still things are better now. Balpa sorted the mess. Why all these cancellations though? Rumours of Crewing problems........ at such a prestigeous Airline?
When's the strike ballot? I just know you will all stand together and be strong like you have in the past.
BTW I gave up left seat 767 to join Ryanair by choice and haven't regretted it for a minute.
Come on BtP ..........LETS FLY!!!