UA pilot falls foul of idiotically low UK alcohol law
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here's another example BBC NEWS | England | West Midlands | Pilot banned for excess alcohol
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What is it about pilots and drink that fires up the more rabid element of this place?
I'm not for one moment condoning any unsafe practice but there's certainly an air of the lynching mob whenever the subject comes up. I wonder, do the non-professionals here register on trucker sites and berate them whenever a lorry driver is convicted of drink driving, being under the influence of drugs or raping a prostitute*?
* Dr J Clarkson 2008
I'm not for one moment condoning any unsafe practice but there's certainly an air of the lynching mob whenever the subject comes up. I wonder, do the non-professionals here register on trucker sites and berate them whenever a lorry driver is convicted of drink driving, being under the influence of drugs or raping a prostitute*?
* Dr J Clarkson 2008
In years gone by in the Air force it was not unknown for a pilot to have a pint of beer as a "sharpener" before flight. So maybe if you have just above the legal min blood alcohol you may have reaction times that are better than if you were below the limit.
Anyway in what other walk of life do you get sent to prison and loose your right to work for 10+ years for one mister-meaner. Surely mandatory treatment and blood testing that the treatment has worked would be more humane.
But I guess reading some poster's comments they do not have any humanity. Just a hate for the profession for some reason.
Anyway in what other walk of life do you get sent to prison and loose your right to work for 10+ years for one mister-meaner. Surely mandatory treatment and blood testing that the treatment has worked would be more humane.
But I guess reading some poster's comments they do not have any humanity. Just a hate for the profession for some reason.
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Irony
So, it's illegal for us pilots to fly with levels of alcohol in our system as low as .02% in the US. Most states, the drink driving limit is ......08%...
Now, I have no problems with that...As an airline pilot for 20 plus years and a professional, I will abide by those regulations.
Now, let's look at airline scheduling.Backside of the clock, disregard for WOCL cycles and fatigue induced scheduling that studies have shown, using scientifically developed data on sleep cycles, regualry produce levels of fatigue in pilots EQUAL to a blood alcohol level of .24%!
But, the regulators or SLF don't care bout that do they?
Well, maybe after all factors in the recent Fed Ex accident at RJAA are brought to the table, they might....
Regards,
Slats Extend..
Now, I have no problems with that...As an airline pilot for 20 plus years and a professional, I will abide by those regulations.
Now, let's look at airline scheduling.Backside of the clock, disregard for WOCL cycles and fatigue induced scheduling that studies have shown, using scientifically developed data on sleep cycles, regualry produce levels of fatigue in pilots EQUAL to a blood alcohol level of .24%!
But, the regulators or SLF don't care bout that do they?
Well, maybe after all factors in the recent Fed Ex accident at RJAA are brought to the table, they might....
Regards,
Slats Extend..
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IcePack, with all due respect, there is no hatred for the profession, I think some people are just a little frustrated and tired to see so-called professionals essentially defending their right to have a drink before flying a commercial jet. Of course treatment and rehabilitation have their place, but the law is the law and a responsible job brings a higher standard of care. Is that so difficult? It's "misdemeanour" by the way!
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Too much is always too much
I am sure we all know that the aviation laws regarding alcohol were not just dreamed up on a rainy afternoon by some civil servant following a long liquid lunch. In fact extensive research with both students and real airline/military pilots acting as test subjects went into measuring what a safe limit should be. Every factor that could have a bearing on the subject including fatigue levels, stress as well as quantity, metabolic rates, etc were trialed and tested. Whilst most of the research work was done in simulators there were a number of test carried out in light aircraft as far back as the 1960's. So there is not much point in arguing about the quantities of alcohol consumed or the timing of the last drink taken.
I believe that part of todays problem of public perception with drinking and flying stems (in the UK atleast) from the more relaxed atmosphere prevailing in the military environment in years gone by. From my own experiences in the 1950/60's I can remember many occasions when putting the glass down to pushing the starter on jet fighters could be measured in minutes. It was seen as being as some sort of macho thing to fly with a skin full or atleast suffering an appalling hangover from the night before. These self same pilots of course a few years later were driving our civil aircraft. Did there views on alcohol change much? I don't think so although I am sure they modified their behaviour somewhat in order to stay employed.
Now most of these old farts have gone and hopefully younger a wiser men have taken their place. So if flying it simply is best to not drink.
Cheers!!
I believe that part of todays problem of public perception with drinking and flying stems (in the UK atleast) from the more relaxed atmosphere prevailing in the military environment in years gone by. From my own experiences in the 1950/60's I can remember many occasions when putting the glass down to pushing the starter on jet fighters could be measured in minutes. It was seen as being as some sort of macho thing to fly with a skin full or atleast suffering an appalling hangover from the night before. These self same pilots of course a few years later were driving our civil aircraft. Did there views on alcohol change much? I don't think so although I am sure they modified their behaviour somewhat in order to stay employed.
Now most of these old farts have gone and hopefully younger a wiser men have taken their place. So if flying it simply is best to not drink.
Cheers!!
For those of you who fly to Australia the same rules and limit are going to be applied as of next month. Yep, in four days. Be careful when you have a beer or two or other party concoctions Down Under.
Read all about it here;
CASA A&OD Testing
Regards,
BH.
Read all about it here;
CASA A&OD Testing
Regards,
BH.
Last edited by Bullethead; 28th Mar 2009 at 13:12.
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Now, let's look at airline scheduling.Backside of the clock, disregard for WOCL cycles and fatigue induced scheduling that studies have shown, using scientifically developed data on sleep cycles, regualry produce levels of fatigue in pilots EQUAL to a blood alcohol level of .24%!
In UK is 20 mg of alcohol for 100 ml of blood. Not 0.02%.
A blood level of 0.24% compares to 20 mg of alcohol for 100 ml of blood.
Last edited by FrequentSLF; 28th Mar 2009 at 14:20.
well in my day it was always no smoking within 12 hours and no drinking within 50 feet. Always stuck to that rule and not scratched an aircraft in 47 years
As dodgyoldfart says, in the military of the 60s it was not uncommon for a pilot to have a little sharpener prior to a trip. As for a night deck landing, several swift ones post flight regardless of what time the morning push was scheduled was de rigueur! From HM's service to civvy street was a natural progression and does a leopard change it's spots? Hardly! So the nearest watering hole for a debrief post flight just comes naturally. There but for the grace...etc. Glass houses and stones comes to mind!
As dodgyoldfart says, in the military of the 60s it was not uncommon for a pilot to have a little sharpener prior to a trip. As for a night deck landing, several swift ones post flight regardless of what time the morning push was scheduled was de rigueur! From HM's service to civvy street was a natural progression and does a leopard change it's spots? Hardly! So the nearest watering hole for a debrief post flight just comes naturally. There but for the grace...etc. Glass houses and stones comes to mind!
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Try again, that is 20%
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I just spent 30 minutes researching gram vs litre. To save another US metric dummy like me, 1 gram = 1mm. 1,000 grams = 1 litre for water in standard conditions. So limit in US would be .02% ba.
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Well... the former Air Force Major was deemed to be above the legal limit according the ME. Perhaps he quit the boozing at the time prescribed by the UAL FCOM/GOM/FOM. But was not legal flight due to the concentration of alcohol in his blood. Was this first time he rolled the dice?
Perhaps the Major will overcome his personal problems with the support of his family, and friends and sound therapy and rise to a better level.
I hope the lad has a job to come back to after all the dust settles.
Perhaps the Major will overcome his personal problems with the support of his family, and friends and sound therapy and rise to a better level.
I hope the lad has a job to come back to after all the dust settles.
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I just spent 30 minutes researching gram vs litre. To save another US metric dummy like me, 1 gram = 1mm. 1,000 grams = 1 litre for water in standard conditions. So limit in US would be .02% ba
Now how can you explain that fatigue can be comparable to 0.24%? (ten times more than the legal limit)...if so you could not even stand!
FSLF