UA pilot falls foul of idiotically low UK alcohol law
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Heathrow pilot caught drunk at 9am about to fly to America is spared jail
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx was three times over the alcohol limit when he prepared to take off for San Francisco
A pilot who was three times over the alcohol limit in the cockpit of a Boeing 747 at Heathrow was spared jail yesterday after pleas from his bosses.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, 44, was given a suspended sentence which means he could be able to resume flying after therapy.
The American father of two was acting as First Officer when he was arrested on the flight deck of a United Airlines plane preparing to take off for San Francisco.
Police, called in by worried ground staff, breathalysed him and he was led off Flight 955 in front of stunned passengers.
Blood results revealed that he had 60mg of alcohol in 100ml of blood.
The legal limit for pilots who are about to fly a commercial plane is 20mg - the UK drink-driving limit is 80mg.
The flight was delayed for nearly three hours as United Airlines searched for another pilot.
At Isleworth Crown Court yesterday Judge Sam Katkhuda told xxxxxxxx his decision to drink before boarding the plane at 9am on October 19 last year had threatened the safety of all on board.
Imposing a six-month suspended sentence, he said: 'I'm surprised your captain did not notice you had consumed so much [alcohol] because when you passed through security checks it was noticed.
'One just cannot imagine how a person of your ability would get himself into this position. Certainly to be three times over the limit would have impaired your judgment. However successful you think you may be, alcohol has a negative effect on pilots.'
xxxxxx's barrister Neil Fitzgibbon said he had been 'more dehydrated than normal' and had a shorter period between flights than he was used to.
He had drunk only a modest amount and had not realised he was over the limit.
Two managing directors from United Airlines told the judge about the 'exemplary character and behaviour' of the former U.S. Air Force major.
The court heard he might be eligible to fly for the airline again in a year if he passed a range of medical and psychological tests. This would not have been the case if he had been jailed.
Captain Curtis Hughes told the court xxxxxxxxxx was currently suspended but had undergone an 'aggressive' programme of treatment.
He said: 'In my opinion he is an outstanding citizen and a consummate professional as an airline pilot.
'We believe that with the right kind of supervision and programme he will continue to be a valuable asset.'
xxxxxxxx, who lives in Hawaii, was also supported by a host of character references from colleagues. They described him as an 'expert pilot' whose skills could be called upon in any situation.
The final decision on the return of his wings will rest with the Federal Aviation Administration.
The pilot had admitted performing an aviation function with alcohol over the prescribed limit at a magistrates' court hearing on January 16.
But the JPs considered his offence so serious that they sent him to the crown court for sentencing
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx was three times over the alcohol limit when he prepared to take off for San Francisco
A pilot who was three times over the alcohol limit in the cockpit of a Boeing 747 at Heathrow was spared jail yesterday after pleas from his bosses.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, 44, was given a suspended sentence which means he could be able to resume flying after therapy.
The American father of two was acting as First Officer when he was arrested on the flight deck of a United Airlines plane preparing to take off for San Francisco.
Police, called in by worried ground staff, breathalysed him and he was led off Flight 955 in front of stunned passengers.
Blood results revealed that he had 60mg of alcohol in 100ml of blood.
The legal limit for pilots who are about to fly a commercial plane is 20mg - the UK drink-driving limit is 80mg.
The flight was delayed for nearly three hours as United Airlines searched for another pilot.
At Isleworth Crown Court yesterday Judge Sam Katkhuda told xxxxxxxx his decision to drink before boarding the plane at 9am on October 19 last year had threatened the safety of all on board.
Imposing a six-month suspended sentence, he said: 'I'm surprised your captain did not notice you had consumed so much [alcohol] because when you passed through security checks it was noticed.
'One just cannot imagine how a person of your ability would get himself into this position. Certainly to be three times over the limit would have impaired your judgment. However successful you think you may be, alcohol has a negative effect on pilots.'
xxxxxx's barrister Neil Fitzgibbon said he had been 'more dehydrated than normal' and had a shorter period between flights than he was used to.
He had drunk only a modest amount and had not realised he was over the limit.
Two managing directors from United Airlines told the judge about the 'exemplary character and behaviour' of the former U.S. Air Force major.
The court heard he might be eligible to fly for the airline again in a year if he passed a range of medical and psychological tests. This would not have been the case if he had been jailed.
Captain Curtis Hughes told the court xxxxxxxxxx was currently suspended but had undergone an 'aggressive' programme of treatment.
He said: 'In my opinion he is an outstanding citizen and a consummate professional as an airline pilot.
'We believe that with the right kind of supervision and programme he will continue to be a valuable asset.'
xxxxxxxx, who lives in Hawaii, was also supported by a host of character references from colleagues. They described him as an 'expert pilot' whose skills could be called upon in any situation.
The final decision on the return of his wings will rest with the Federal Aviation Administration.
The pilot had admitted performing an aviation function with alcohol over the prescribed limit at a magistrates' court hearing on January 16.
But the JPs considered his offence so serious that they sent him to the crown court for sentencing
Last edited by Old Lizzy; 29th Mar 2009 at 13:41.
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Old Lizzy, you're and idiot. The UK drink driving limit means you can drink OVER A PINT OF BEER and go immediately driving. Do you really think this is acceptable for airline pilots?
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Pilots know the rules - its their responsability to ensure they stick to them. Easiest way is to not have any alcohol within 24 hours of flying.
I am sure that the limit is there for a reason, and I would hope that it is lower than for driving a car - I am sure that there is a lot more decision making within a very short space of time should something go pear shaped in an aircraft than in a car!
I am sure that the limit is there for a reason, and I would hope that it is lower than for driving a car - I am sure that there is a lot more decision making within a very short space of time should something go pear shaped in an aircraft than in a car!
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Blessed are the self-righteous
Yes I probably am an idiot and I amuse myself by smiling like the village idiot at people and keep them guessing.
I am not advocating anyone drinking and flying at all; try to keep up. I am just aghast at the potential penalties for the new laws. Go to jail in a plane but not even get a ticket in a car? Pointless and likely to not cure the problem, just drive it further underground. When you have proactive management and rehab programs, then you can start to address the problem of substance abuse. I am very pleased to see this man's airline go to bat for him, turning out in force and making great pitches to let the courts know that they have intervened and can help this guy a whole lot more in house rather than in jail. Unlike the Virgin pilot at Washington a few Xmas's back, when his unenlightened boss Sir Dick, dropped him (fired and forgotten) like a hot potato - Branson can't handle anything other than great publicity. Two lives threatened, one career saved, and hopefully a family unit kept intact. I like the UA approach for sure. I wish I worked for someone like that.
I don't know what the US limits and could care less. I live on a little island and like being the local idiot.
Panhandling is a great income supplement.....just need to wear a trash bag and borrow your neighbour's cute little dog....
Redemption and tolerance are good qualities - you should try experimenting with them sometime.
I am not advocating anyone drinking and flying at all; try to keep up. I am just aghast at the potential penalties for the new laws. Go to jail in a plane but not even get a ticket in a car? Pointless and likely to not cure the problem, just drive it further underground. When you have proactive management and rehab programs, then you can start to address the problem of substance abuse. I am very pleased to see this man's airline go to bat for him, turning out in force and making great pitches to let the courts know that they have intervened and can help this guy a whole lot more in house rather than in jail. Unlike the Virgin pilot at Washington a few Xmas's back, when his unenlightened boss Sir Dick, dropped him (fired and forgotten) like a hot potato - Branson can't handle anything other than great publicity. Two lives threatened, one career saved, and hopefully a family unit kept intact. I like the UA approach for sure. I wish I worked for someone like that.
I don't know what the US limits and could care less. I live on a little island and like being the local idiot.
Panhandling is a great income supplement.....just need to wear a trash bag and borrow your neighbour's cute little dog....Redemption and tolerance are good qualities - you should try experimenting with them sometime.
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Maybe it's time to change the limit for driving a car?
I recently had a party at home, the following morning i checked my alcohol level. 70 mg. I was so dizzy I didn't belong anywhere near a car, let alone an aircraft.
We know the rules, and we know the consequences of violating them. You will never see me rally behing a colleague caught (proven) above the limit.
Period!
I recently had a party at home, the following morning i checked my alcohol level. 70 mg. I was so dizzy I didn't belong anywhere near a car, let alone an aircraft.
We know the rules, and we know the consequences of violating them. You will never see me rally behing a colleague caught (proven) above the limit.
Period!
I like a drink as much as the next pilot - but in this industry we have extra responsibilities over and above an office worker.
The definition of "an alcohol problem" is simply if your drinking begins to interfere with:
If you are on a short nightstop, and you choose that drink over your job responsibilities, you have an alcohol problem. It doesn't matter if it's "only a small one", or "I'll have less than a driver's limit" - the only hard bit is admitting it to yourself ... hmmm Old Lizzy ??
The definition of "an alcohol problem" is simply if your drinking begins to interfere with:
- Your family relationships
- your helath
- your employment
If you are on a short nightstop, and you choose that drink over your job responsibilities, you have an alcohol problem. It doesn't matter if it's "only a small one", or "I'll have less than a driver's limit" - the only hard bit is admitting it to yourself ... hmmm Old Lizzy ??
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So he has had enough drink for others to notice
Enough alcohol in his blood that testing has shown DOES affect decision making and reaction times
And he tries to fly a plane with hundreds of passengers
And you are complaining that a sentence he did not get given would have been too harsh?
I don't know what you are complaining about, I think he was bloody lucky TBH
Enough alcohol in his blood that testing has shown DOES affect decision making and reaction times
And he tries to fly a plane with hundreds of passengers
And you are complaining that a sentence he did not get given would have been too harsh?
I don't know what you are complaining about, I think he was bloody lucky TBH
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Sorry guys. He was over the limit at 9AM??? There is no excuse, no mitigating circumstance, no matter how highly others regard him.
12 hours bottle to throttle - another little maxim drummed into me when I was learning to fly. Sure we had a pint or three in the clubhouse after flying ceased for the day. But if I was flying again early in the morning then the 12 hour rule was sacrosanct and still is 30 years later.
And I'm only a humble little PPL.
12 hours bottle to throttle - another little maxim drummed into me when I was learning to fly. Sure we had a pint or three in the clubhouse after flying ceased for the day. But if I was flying again early in the morning then the 12 hour rule was sacrosanct and still is 30 years later.
And I'm only a humble little PPL.
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idiotically low UK alcohol law
Get real England!
Thank goodness for an enlightened chief pilot going to bat for him.
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I certainly do not condone flying with any amount of alcohol in your system but I assume that he was operating an American registered aircraft.
Do the UK or American Regulations apply in respect of alcohol levels, if in fact there is a difference?
Do the UK or American Regulations apply in respect of alcohol levels, if in fact there is a difference?
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DX Wombat
"He should be suspended from his job until he has had sufficient therapy to ensure as far as possible that he has recognised his alcohol problem and it is under good control."
Maybe the poor chap just got caught out, granted it's wrong and unacceptable, however therapy for an alcohol problem that is out of control? Let's leave it to those who know the circumstances to decide the action.
"If the USA limits for pilots are higher than those in the UK you will never find me flying with a USA airline, it just won't be worth the risk and I shall also warn my friends of this situation."
Oh dear, bit of an irrational statement, don't you think?
"He's not what I would call an enlightened CP if he thinks it is fine to drink and fly. A long spell in an alcohol-free country might do both of them some good."
Why of course, not only is your experience as a nurse more valid than the experience and knowledge of the CP, in relation to the FO, but it is also sufficient to diagnose the CP as having a need to do without alcohol. Bravo!
Maybe the poor chap just got caught out, granted it's wrong and unacceptable, however therapy for an alcohol problem that is out of control? Let's leave it to those who know the circumstances to decide the action.
"If the USA limits for pilots are higher than those in the UK you will never find me flying with a USA airline, it just won't be worth the risk and I shall also warn my friends of this situation."
Oh dear, bit of an irrational statement, don't you think?
"He's not what I would call an enlightened CP if he thinks it is fine to drink and fly. A long spell in an alcohol-free country might do both of them some good."
Why of course, not only is your experience as a nurse more valid than the experience and knowledge of the CP, in relation to the FO, but it is also sufficient to diagnose the CP as having a need to do without alcohol. Bravo!
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bus driver
hi lizzy..
so what is the blood alcohol limit to drive a bus (loaded with passengers) in the UK? Without knowing the reg I guess it is the same as for flying an aircraft ??
rgds
welle
so what is the blood alcohol limit to drive a bus (loaded with passengers) in the UK? Without knowing the reg I guess it is the same as for flying an aircraft ??
rgds
welle
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There by the grace of Icarus go I
Good luck to this guy. He'll have learned from this experience. Personally I'd rather fly with an experienced ex USAF major than some of the ninnies that grace this forum at times.
. His company seem to be a sensible and decent crowd.
. His company seem to be a sensible and decent crowd.
I seem to rmember reading an article many years ago in some publication or other, about a military fast jet pilot who took part in a simulator experiment to prove (or disprove) that alcahol and flying don't mix.
Off he flew in his simulated fast jet and did the planned sortie. Somewhere along the line, sadistic sim instructor throws him a curved ball which he handles in an exemplary manner. OK, end of sortie.
Out of cockpit and gets wrapped around a half of bitter or something similar.
Wait half an hour and leap back into the air. Somewhere along this sortie, sim sadist throws exactly the same emergency at him, with a crash and burn result.
No argument really. Alcahol and flying do not mix and anyone who does it as a statistic waiting to happen.
Doc C
Off he flew in his simulated fast jet and did the planned sortie. Somewhere along the line, sadistic sim instructor throws him a curved ball which he handles in an exemplary manner. OK, end of sortie.
Out of cockpit and gets wrapped around a half of bitter or something similar.
Wait half an hour and leap back into the air. Somewhere along this sortie, sim sadist throws exactly the same emergency at him, with a crash and burn result.
No argument really. Alcahol and flying do not mix and anyone who does it as a statistic waiting to happen.
Doc C
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Alcohol
Take it or leave it? Any amount of alcohol in an aircrew bloodstream is disqualifying. My Opinion, I've worked in the field. There is such a potential for danger and impairment. A low level means what? Generally a higher level precedent? A hungover pilot is more dangerous than a drunk one, for the most part. If anyone smells alcohol on a professional, he/she isn't.
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I am not advocating anyone drinking and flying at all; try to keep up. I am just aghast at the potential penalties for the new laws. Go to jail in a plane but not even get a ticket in a car? Pointless and likely to not cure the problem, just drive it further underground. When you have proactive management and rehab programs, then you can start to address the problem of substance abuse. I am very pleased to see this man's airline go to bat for him, turning out in force and making great pitches to let the courts know that they have intervened and can help this guy a whole lot more in house rather than in jail. Unlike the Virgin pilot at Washington a few Xmas's back, when his unenlightened boss Sir Dick, dropped him (fired and forgotten) like a hot potato - Branson can't handle anything other than great publicity. Two lives threatened, one career saved, and hopefully a family unit kept intact. I like the UA approach for sure. I wish I worked for someone like that.
Exactly the same of a pilot.