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Turkish airliner crashes at Schiphol

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Turkish airliner crashes at Schiphol

Old 28th Feb 2009, 16:42
  #741 (permalink)  
 
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I think the screams heard would indicate otherwise, the area isn't guarded either. Turn the volume up, i believe it's right after the crash and before the emergency services arrived. I believe it was mentioned as such where i found the link from.
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 16:43
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The Dutch text under the video states that it was filmed by a passenger with a mobile phone, seconds after the crash.....
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 16:46
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re Philbky..

did you watch it with sound???? You can clearly hear a woman in distress, and a male voice shout "please stay there", and a couple more inaudible shouts.

Plus, you think they'd let the general public wander around this a/c the day after, taking pics? I imagine the investigation team are still there as we speak/type/read.
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 16:51
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You have speed protection in FL CHG, if the A/T is engaged. You do not have this in V/S, even if the A/T is armed. You have some protection in VNAV too, as the speed bug is set via the flap position - if the A/T is engaged.
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 17:02
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ASRAAM is right, if you are in FLCH descent not following the FD the throttles will stay in idle (HOLD) until to the MCP ALT. Switching off the FD changing the AT to speed mode and everything is fine. Thats the reason why you have to switch of the FD during visual approaches.
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 17:07
  #746 (permalink)  
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Video post #744

Right before the end of the video, the FO can be seen trapped in his seat.
That is very disturbing.

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Old 28th Feb 2009, 17:26
  #747 (permalink)  
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..............

Last edited by Rainboe; 17th May 2009 at 17:46.
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 17:30
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Re the video, the sound didn't work the first time I played it. After the comments above I played it again and heard what people refer to.

There are, however, a number of odd factors. First of all, inside the aircraft. If this was taken immediately after the crash, before the emergency services arrived, where aqre the trapped passengers? I watched the live coverage on two stations together, BBC 24 and Sky News. Discounting the repetitive loop footage, a number of persons were being removed from the aircraft centre section at least an hour after the crash. The footage showing views in each direction inside the cabin shows only a handful of people moving around in quite a leisurely manner.

Why is the camera user staying inside filming?. The instinct is to leave the aircraft as quickly as possible due to danger of fire. All evacuation instructions tell pax to get as far away from the aircraft as fast as possible.

All previous survivable accidents I've ever seen footage of, read about and actually witnessed have been the same. The pax, even if stunned, evacuate as fast as they can, often in panic. They don't linger near the aircraft unless they have lost mobility and, whilst during the Toronto A340 accident a couple of guys did use camera phones the panic, rush to evacuate and movement away from the aircraft is in complete contrast to what we have here.

The middle segment has people wandering around close to the aircraft in a relaxed way. There are people in orange jackets visible and the guy in the blue jacket looks totally unconcerned. If they are pax, would they have had time to find their jackets and put them on before leaving the cabin?

The sound quality, if this was a mobile phone, is excellent but seems almost too good - as if it has been added later as the sounds during the outside shots have the same resonance and acoustic as those heard when the camera is inside - which is odd as is the fact that the shouts, obviously from inside, are being so well picked up whilst the camera is some distance from the fuselage.

Could this have been taken by a member of the clear up crew and someone has added the soundtrack for effect?
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 17:32
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Interesting points. What about the trapped f/o visible, just before the end of the video? Also, where are the emergency vehicles and the close down of the perimeter by the authorities?
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 17:40
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I've looked very carefully at the white object in the aircraft's right hand window (left as we view it).

I'm not convinced it is the F/O. I think it looks like charts resting on the instrument panel as, if you start and stop the video, almost frame by frame, you see two distinct areas of white with a black patch between them
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 18:01
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@philbky, @Christodoulidesd

Lukily it's just a chart. When you compare some 'high-res' pictures you will see these are charts on the dashboard of the front- and side windows. I hope there are NO pictures/videos on the internet which have footage of the trapped pilots!!

http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/ima...hschiphol2.jpg
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 18:11
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.....where are the emergency vehicles and the close down of the perimeter by the authorities?
What a ridiculous thing to say. The footage is obviously taken minutes after the accident. The accident occured a mile outside the airport boundary. Even with an immediate response it's going to take the emergency services 4 to 5 minutes to reach the scene. In fact you can hear the sirens.
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 18:42
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I can't believe this is made right after the grounding. Too relaxed, somebody in the plane is looking for something, not making protestations whilst being filmed.
The F/O sitting in his chair is of course complete nonsense as all entrance to F/D was void and not possible. Sound could be added later. Just one of the curious airport workers who entered the scene showing his airport ID, probably wanting to make a fast buck.
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 18:43
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Hey,
this is the first I have heard that one of the casualties was a flight attendant. Has anyone read where he/she was sitting?
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 18:47
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Thumbs down

@Christodoulidesd:

Could you please explain why did you put the video here. What is your motive? We already know the state of the aircraft from the pictures already posted here...

@Everyone else commenting about scenes from the video:

Don't you think you should show some respect to those who were involved or became involved because of their loved ones?

Unbelievable...
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 18:54
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DC-ATE

One of the three Turkish pilots on board the Turkish Airlines plane which crashed shortly before landing at Schiphol airport on Wednesday was in training, officials in Istanbul have confirmed, reports the Telegraaf.

Olgay Özgür (29), who completed his formal pilot’s training in 2004, was learning how to fly the new generation of Boeing 737-800s, the paper says.

This explains why there were three, not two people in the cockpit. Having a third pilot on training flights is standard procedure for safety reasons.

It is not known who was in charge of landing the plane at the time of the crash, which killed all three pilots and six others.
So, captain and trainee in the pilot chairs, safety pilot on jump seat. Unless of course, turkish pilots train to fly from the jump seat?
In my crystal ball I see the trainee at the controls, and quite possible a semi CFIT/loss of control. I stress that this is my opinion, and not a confirmed fact.

Sorry, but I don't buy wake turbulence, dual engine failure, birdstrikes, no fuel or ice scenarios. 737 NG's simply don't drop out of the sky like this.

If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to appologize.
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 18:57
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My understanding is that the ADS-B data originated from a RadarBox, not an SBS.

This means that we can't be sure whether the altitude readouts were relative to 1013mb, or were corrected for the prevailing QNH (RadarBox will do the latter automatically, but only if the appropriate box is ticked).
Yep, in the 2009 version of the software, you enter the transition altitude and QNH. Since the QNH must be entered manually and the online RadarBox's usually run 24/7, most users leave 1013 in the QNH in my experience. But, as you correctly observe, we can't be sure without more information.
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 19:02
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MAS

If I understand well, it's pointing to a crew not spotting speed decay and stalling a perfectly serviceable aircraft.

I'm surprised the 737-800 doesn't have any protection against that.
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 19:08
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ManaAdaSystem -
So, captain and trainee in the pilot chairs, safety pilot on jump seat. Unless of course, turkish pilots train to fly from the jump seat.
I don't think it's been established yet who was sitting where. The 'trainee' could have been observing from the jump seat. Let's wait for the report.

Dysag -
If I understand well, it's pointing to a crew not spotting speed decay and stalling a perfectly serviceable aircraft.
I'm surprised the 737-800 doesn't have any protection against that.
ALL aircraft have protection against that sort of thing.....it's called a competent crew. Now I'm not saying this crew was incompetent as we don't know the cause of the accident yet. But, don't blame it on the airplane just yet.
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 19:35
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Just going back to the talk about not being able to get to the pilot that was still alive, if they couldn't take out that side window, could they not just have broken it instead, or is that impossible for cockpit windows?

Re the video, the poster has every right to post the link, it's freely available out there. Comparing the last part with the photos, it was indeed some charts on the dash and not the F/O.
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