Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC

[John Farley]

Well said mono.

Sadly, these days on the net, one has to get used to people writing stuff that actually only shows the gaps in their knowledge.

[protectthehornet]

mono and john

so how do you know for SURE that the inlet guide vanes and other damage (except for so called soft body damage) was fully caused by the birds? how much of it could be due to the water?

we shall see...and there are no dumb thoughts on this forum...just closed minds.

and HEY WILEYDOG

our airline has published stuff on overboosting/ ;-)

[VNAV PATH]

Wileydog3 said :

Overboost on a jet engine. Over-temp, yes. Over-speed, yes. Overboost, no. Overboost is a recip term and problem

Probably a semantic problem , but my Manual says :

" thrust protection is not provided (...). As a result thrust overboost can occur at (... ) "

Somewhere else:

" avancing the thrust levers full forward provides some overboost (...)

And refering to my old time engine course , on a thrust vs Temp. graph , until the thrust break temp. the graph is flat and means thrust limitation ( case resistance ) then there is EGT limitation ( mettallurgy resistance) )

[patrickal]

And yet the would be "engineers" here on PPRuNe seem to think that a big red switch to allow the pilot to over-ride the FADEC would have saved the day (or at least allowed at dry landing)

Agreed!! I am not an engineer nor a commercial pilot, but when I look at the "probably not accurate" map showing the flightpath altitudes and airspeed. what strikes me is that if they were to try to do anything other than what they did, they would be rapidly sacrificing altitude by making hard turns, dropping gear, and possibly setting slats/flaps. Plus they had no idea what other damage to flight controls had been incurred.

I should also point out that either Teteboro or LGA would involve clearing some pretty high obstacles. Take a look at this IAP for Runway 19 at TEB. Look at height of all of the obstacles to be cleard for any return to LGA or landing at TEB. http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0901/00890I19.PDF . Plus he would have to use RWY 19, as RWY 24 is only 6030 feet, a real risk with no power and possibly no brakes or spoilers also.

The only sure thing they had was what they had in front of them. Anyone that second guesses this team, given the results they accomplished, is just plain stupid. I would go so far as to include the NTSB in that group if they do in the end come out and say that they could have reached LaGuardia or Teterboro. Let the results speak for themselves. Has anyone tried this in a sim yet?



Patrick

[kenparry]

Patrick:

There's no point "trying to replicate in a sim", because you do not know what to replicate

[protectthehornet]

dropping gear

so many people have indicated that one would drop the gear and lose gliding distance

gee...if you can land gear up on the water, you can land gear up on the ground if you need too (assuming flat, like a runway).

yes, the pilots (plural) did fine. the stews did fine too, especially the one who stopped people from opening the rear doors.

[StbdD]

After Action Report from a passenger

Passenger 8F

Thursday was a difficult day for all of us at the firm and I left the
Park Avenue office early afternoon to catch a cab bound for LaGuardia
Airport.

I was scheduled for a 5pm departure, but able to secure a seat on the
earlier flight scheduled to leave at 3PM. As many of us who fly
frequently often do, I recall wondering if I'd just placed myself on a
flight I shouldn't be on!

Just prior to boarding I finished up a conference call with my
associate, ******* (New York), and our placement, the CIO of
United Airlines. When I told him that I was about to board a US
Airways flight, we all had a little fun with it.

I remember walking on the plane and seeing a fellow with grey hair in
the cockpit and thinking "that's a good thing... I like to see grey
hair in the cockpit!"

I was seated in 8F, on the starboard side window and next to a young
business man. The New York to Charlotte flight is one I've taken what
seems like hundreds of times over the years. We take off north over
the Bronx and as we climb, turn west over the Hudson River to New
Jersey and tack south. I love to fly, always have, and this flight
plan gives a great view of several NY landmarks including Yankee
Stadium and the George Washington Bridge.

I had started to point out items of interest to the gentleman next to
me when we heard a terrible crash - a sound no one ever wants to hear
while flying - and then the engines wound down to a screeching halt.
10 seconds later, there was a strong smell of jet fuel. I knew we
would be landing and thought the pilot would take us down no doubt to
Newark Airport. As we began to turn south I noticed the pilot lining
up on the river still - I thought - en route for Newark.

Next thing we heard was "Brace for impact!" - a phrase I had heard
many years before as an active duty Marine Officer but never before on
a commercial air flight.

Everyone looked at each other in shock. It all happened so fast we
were astonished!

We began to descend rapidly and it started to sink in. This is the
last flight. I'm going to die today. This is it. I recited my favorite
bible verse, the Lord's Prayer, and asked God to take care of my wife,
children, family and friends.

When I raised my head I noticed people texting their friends and
family….getting off a last message. My blackberry was turned off and
in my trouser pocket…no time to get at it. Our descent continued and I
prayed for courage to control my fear and help if able.

I quickly realized that one of two things was going to happen, neither
of them good. We could hit by the nose, flip and break up, leaving few
if any survivors, bodies, cold water, fuel. Or we could hit one of the
wings and roll and flip with the same result. I tightened my seat belt
as tight as I could possibly get it so I would remain intact.

As we came in for the landing, I looked out the windows and remember
seeing the buildings in New Jersey, the cliffs in Weehawken, and then
the piers. The water was dark green and sure to be freezing cold. The
stewardesses were yelling in unison "Brace! Brace! Brace!"

It was a violent hit - the water flew up over my window - but we
bobbed up and were all amazed that we remained intact.

There was some panic - people jumping over seats and running towards
the doors, but we soon got everyone straightened out and calmed down.
There were a lot of people that took leadership roles in little ways.
Those sitting at the doors over the wing did a fantastic job…they were
opened in a New York second! Everyone worked together - teamed up and
in groups to figure out how to help each other.

I exited on the starboard side of the plane, 3 or 4 rows behind my
seat through a door over the wing and was, I believe, the 10th or 12th
person out. I took my seat cushion as a flotation device and once
outside saw I was the only one who did….none of us remembered to take
the yellow inflatable life vests from under the seat.

We were standing in 6-8 inches of water and it was freezing. There
were two women on the wing, one of whom slipped off into the water.
Another passenger and I pulled her back on and had her kneel down to
keep from falling off again. By that point we were totally soaked and
absolutely frozen from the icy wind.

The ferries were the first to arrive, and although they're not made
for rescue, they did an incredible job. I know this river, having swum
in it as a boy. The Hudson is an estuary - part salt and part fresh
water - and moves with the tide. I could tell the tide was moving out
because we were tacking slowly south towards Ellis Island, The Statue
of Liberty, and The Battery.

The first ferry boat pulled its bow up to the tip of the wing, and the
first mate lowered the Jacobs ladder down to us. We got a couple
people up the ladder to safety, but the current was strong pushing the
stern of the boat into the inflatable slide and we were afraid it
would puncture it…there must have been 25 passengers in it by now.
Only two or three were able to board the first ferry before it moved away.

Another ferry came up, and we were able to get the woman that had
fallen into the water on the ladder, but she just couldn't move her
legs and fell off. Back onto the ladder she went; however, the ferry
had to back away because of the swift current. A helicopter arrived on
station (nearly blowing us all off the wing) and followed the ferry
with the woman on the ladder. We lost view of the situation but I
believe the helicopter lowered its basket to rescue her.

As more ferries arrived, we were able to get people up on the boats a
few at a time. The fellow in front of me fell off the ladder and into
the water. When we got him back on the ladder he could not move his
legs to climb. I couldn't help him from my position so I climbed up
the ladder to the ferry deck where the first mate and I hoisted the
Jacobs ladder with him on it…when he got close enough we grabbed his
trouser belt and hauled him on deck. We were all safely off the wing.

We could not stop shaking. Uncontrollable shaking. The only thing I
had with me was my blackberry, which had gotten wet and was not
working. (It started working again a few hours later).

The ferry took us to the Weehawken Terminal in NJ where I borrowed a
phone and called my wife to let her know I was okay. The second call I
made was to *****. I knew she would be worried about me and could
communicate to the rest of the firm that I was fine. At the terminal,
first responders assessed everyone's condition and sent people to the
hospital as needed. As we pulled out of Weehawken my history kicked in
and I recall it was the site of the famous duel between Alexander
Hamilton and Aaron Burr in 1804. Thankfully I left town in better
condition than Mr. Hamilton who died of a mortal wound the next day! I
stayed with my sister on Long Island that evening, then flew home the
next day.

I am struck by what was truly a miracle. Had this happened a few hours
later, it would have been pitch dark and much harder to land. Ferries
would no longer have been running after rush hour and it would not
have been the same uplifting story. Surely there would have been
fatalities, hypothermia, an absolute disaster!

I witnessed the best of humanity that day. I and everyone on that
plane survived and have been given a second chance. It struck me that
in our work we continuously seek excellence to solve our client's
leadership problems. We talk to clients all the time about the
importance of experience and the ability to execute. Experience showed
up big time on Flight 1549 as our pilot was a dedicated, trained,
experienced professional who executed flawlessly when he had to.

I have received scores of emails from across the firm and I am so
grateful for the outpouring of interest and concern. We all fly a
great deal or work with someone who does and so I wanted to share this
story - the story of a miracle. I am thankful to be here to tell the
tale.

There is a great deal to be learned including: Why has this happened
to me? Why have I survived and what am I supposed to do with this
gift? For me, the answers to these questions and more will come over
time, but already I find myself being more patient and forgiving, less
critical and judgmental.

For now I have 4 lessons I would like to share:

1. Cherish your families as never before and go to great lengths to
keep your promises.
2. Be thankful and grateful for everything you have and don't worry
about the things you don't have.
3. Keep in shape. You never know when you'll be called upon to save
your own life, or help someone else save theirs.
4. When you fly, wear practical clothing. You never know when you'll
end up in an emergency or on an icy wing in flip flops and pajamas and
of absolutely no use to yourself or anyone else.

Thanks to all who have reached out …I look forward to seeing you soon!

[ZQA297/30]

Having had a severely bird-damaged engine, my experience was that to stop severe surging the throttle had to be retarded to about 1.3 epr (old fashioned engines ). Any attempt to advance throttle resulted in surging and instability with an apparent loss of thrust. FADEC or not, once the mechanicals are damaged, more fuel will not necessarily mean more thrust, it may just put you back into a zone of instability.
By the way, the reason a badly damaged engine was kept running was because both engines ingested birds and surged massively, so the "good " one had unknown damage, and we might have had to survive on the "bad" one.
On subsequent inspection the "good" one had blood and feathers from several ducks, but was otherwise undamaged, but the bad one was a million dollar write-off.

PS the monday morning quarterbacks pointed out that we might have gotten a little more thrust/stability if we had turned on the anti-ice bleeds. At 30 Celsius OAT we overlooked that. Nobody's perfect!

[Graybeard]

Life Vest

Like most people, I've never had occasion to remove a life vest from under the pax seat. Can it be done while still belted in?

GB

[RatherBeFlying]

Like most people, I've never had occasion to remove a life vest from under the pax seat. Can it be done while still belted in?Yes
When I read the Emergency Card once seated and strapped in, one of the things I do is check that the life jacket is there. They are not made to take repeated unfolding, donning and refolding, so please leave them in the pouch.

[ExSp33db1rd]

There's no point "trying to replicate in a sim", because you do not know what to replicate

Well, you could try 1300 ft. at 191 kts, clean, on the East bank of the Hudson heading South - as per the map we have been shown, try various configurations and see where you end up. Soon get an idea.

Once you've made a decision - stick with it, unless an absolutely cast iron alternative is handed to you on a plate, with a guarantee. What you gonna do now, sue the bloke because you can prove, absolutely, using an electronic gadget, that with hindsight, and 2 weeks to think about it, that he could have made a better decision ? 3-1/2 minutes was all they had.

[Pontius Navigator]

While the poster quoted by StbdD makes some very good points, especially about sensible clothing, two points stand out for me and reinforce what was posted earlier:

After immersion in freezing water your ability to help yourself is virtually NIL. The second, on the sensible clothing front, was the way the rescuers used TROUSER BELTS.

So, help yourself to help your rescuers, wear clothing that can assist in your rescue.

[vanHorck]

Something else that stood out is that no one remembered to take their life vests with them....

It shows how crucial it is for the CC to remind people of this during the evacuation. After initial panic, people settled down. It would have been the ideal time to use the PA to remind people (don't rush to kill me for attacking the CC crew on this, all survived so it was only a blip)

The woman who fell in the water was very lucky. This day all the full cheese bits lined up after the birdstrikes. That's what makes this ditching so special

[Avman]

If you replicate the event on a sim you'd have to include the "what the " factor which will lose you a few seconds of decision making time. It's another ball game altogether when you're anticipating what is going to happen and you have already made the decision to try for TEB.

[Rocket2]

Not sure if this link has been posted but a very evocative drawing from Rex Babin:

Cartoons from Around the Nation - Sacramento Opinion - Sacramento Editorial | Sacramento Bee

[yakker]

I am not an airline pilot, and hopefully I am not contributing to writing stuff that actually only shows the gaps in my knowledge. However I was emailed the following, no doubt any Airbus crew will soon point out the errors. But to me it seems genuine, and shows just how much was done in a short space of time, leaving me to agree with the final comments "a most amazing job done brilliantly". Read on......

The author of the report below is an A340 captain, as you will see from reading right through; do read to the end.

Fascinating info!

Reports state geese were flying at 2900'. This would imply that the A320
would have already cleaned up from its original take off flap setting (most likely config 1 which would have a small amount of flap on the trailing edge and a small amount of slat on the leading edge) to a clean configuration and acceleration to 250 kts indicated airspeed, the maximum permitted speed below 10,000' in the US.

The engines would have been in the 'climb gate' which means that the autothrust system would be engaged with the FMGES (flight management, guidance and envelope system) computers able to automatically set thrust to whatever it requires between idle and approx 90% of the maximum continuous thrust.

The co-pilot was the pilot flying (PF) for this sector with the captain playing the pilot non-flying (PNF) support role (radios, monitoring, system selection, etc). On fly by wire (FBW) Airbuses (Airbii?) the autopilot can be engaged from the later of 100' or 5 seconds after take off but most of us like to play awhile so I don't know if it was engaged or if PF was hand flying at the time.

It would appear that on hitting the birds the power loss on both engines was instantaneous. I would expect that the flight deck would momentarily have gone dark with all the screens blank while the electrical system reconfigured itself onto battery power. During this time a small ram air turbine (RAT) would drop out from the underside of the aircraft with a freewheeling propeller that spins up to 6000ish rpm in the airflow.

Modern Airbus have 3 electrical systems referred to as the Green, Blue and Yellow systems (you can't afford to be colour blind in an Airbus!) with hydraulic dependent systems spread across these 3 providers to allow system redundancy. The engines have pumps attached that normally pressurise the 3 hydraulic systems to 3000 psi however these engines had now stopped so the RAT would supply hydraulic pressure at 2500 psi to the blue hydraulic system only. With only the blue system available the aircraft would have had both elevators but only the left aileron operational (the rudder is electric on the 320 so other redundancy caters for that). The loss of all the engine driven electrical generators would also cause the emergency generator to come on line. This is a small generator that is driven by blue system hydraulic pressure (effectively a windmill in the fluid lines) with enough output to power minimal flight instrumentation, flight control computers, FADEC's (computers governing thrust management), SFCC's (slat/flap control computers), etc, etc. The emergency generator means that the batteries can be saved for any future needs as they are only guaranteed for 30 minutes.

So at this point the aircraft has flight controls and limited electrics. There would then be the most awful buzz of aural warnings and illuminations as the aircraft then reports itself to the pilots as being unfit for use. If the autopilot was engaged it would have dropped out and as the only pilot instrumentation showing would be the captains PFD (primary flight display) and the ISIS (integrated standby instrument system) he would now become the PF while the co-pilot now became the PNF.

In normal circumstances Airbus flight guidance is unlike conventional aircraft as forward and backward movement of the sidestick does not directly control the elevators but does directly control g load demand. Lateral movement of the sidestick does not directly control the ailerons, it sends a request to the flight control computers for a desired roll rate. There are also flight envelope protections in place controlled by the flight control computers that prevent the aircraft exceeding preset pitch and bank angles, min and max speeds, min and max g loadings, etc and when all these are in place the aircraft is referred to as operating in 'Normal Law'. There are another 6 'laws' that the aircraft can fly under (alternate 1, alternate 2, flare, abnormal attitude, mechanical backup) including the reversionary mode the aircraft would have dropped into in this case, 'Direct Law'. In this mode the sidestick movement is effectively directly related to aileron and elevator movement and in effect the aircraft has downgraded itself 3 stages to handle the same as a normal aeroplane. We even have to start trimming!

The aircraft appears to have reached a max alt of 3200' before transitioning to the glide. The Captain is now hand flying and will also have taken over the radios while the FO now has the job of dealing with the systems and failures. The Airbus has a system called ECAM (electronic centralised aircraft monitoring) which not only displays normal aircraft system information on 2 screens in front of the pilots in the middle of the panel but also automatically presents checklists and operation procedures during failures scenarios. The upper ECAM screen would be awash with pages and pages of procedures for him to work through however the aircraft will prioritise the failures and put the engine relight procedures at the top of the list

The ECAM would instruct him to:
1 - Switch on the engine igniters. Jet engines operate with the 'spark plugs' normally switched off as they are a constantly burning fire unlike a piston engine. Relight will not happen without a spark though.
2 - Return the thrust levers to idle for correct fuel delivery during start sequence.
3 - Request PF to fly at 280kts which is the optimum speed for relight. In light of the low altitude I very much doubt they would have wanted to do this. If they had they would have needed a target pitch attitude of approx 2.5 degrees nose down and assuming a
weight of 70 tonnes in still air the glide would have been 2.6nm per 1000'. I suspect the captain would in fact have come back to 'green dot' speed for improved gliding range. Green dot speed is computer generated and displayed as a green dot on the speedtape on the PFD and shows you the exact speed for max lift/drag ratio for that weight in the ambient conditions in the current configuration. I would hazard a guess that on a little Airbus (minibus!?!) this would be just over 200 knots.
4 - Select the emergency generator manually on in case the system has not come on automatically.
5 - Use number 1 VHF or HF radios and Transponder as only those are powered in emergency electrical configuration.
6 - Reset number 1 Flight Augmentation Computer allowing recovery of the electrical rudder trim as the unpowered right aileron would now start to float up hampering control further.
7 - If no engine relight after 30 seconds then engine master switches off for 30 seconds to purge the combustion chambers before restarting the ignition sequence. Below FL200 the APU can be used to assist with engine starting however even if the APU had been running it would not be able to be used within 45 seconds of loss of engine driven generators to prevent interference with emergency generator coupling. At some point the crew would then have to accept their fate that the engines are unlikely to restart and transfer to the Ditching checklist which is not on ECAM but would have to be accessed from the QRH (quick reference handbook) located to the side of each pilot.

Now the FO had a new list of jobs to perform:
1 - Prepare cabin and cockpit. Ensure cabin crew are notified and doing their thing, secure loose items in the cockpit, prepare survival equipment, tighten harness and select harness lock, etc.
2 - Switch GPWS (ground proximity warning systems) and EGPWS (enhanced GPWS) systems off so that the aircraft does not start shouting 'Too Low Gear' or 'Whoop Whoop Pull Up' at you when you are trying to concentrate on a tidy crash.
3 - Seatbelt signs on. Somehow think this one got into the checklist to appease the lawyers at the subsequent board of enquiry!
4 - Turn off cabin and galley electrical power.
5 - Select landing elevation to zero on pressurisation control panel as this would currently be set to the landing elevation at the planned arrival airfield. If the aircraft was still pressurised on ditching it might not be possible to open the doors. The QRH advises the crew to ditch with the gear retracted and the flaps set to the max available setting (normally called Config Full). On the A340 we can achieve Config Full as our RAT supplies the Green hydraulic system. However, looking through the A320 manuals where the RAT supplies the Blue system I can only see a capability to deploy the leading edge slats only. It would be possible to get Config Full by manually switching on the Yellow system electric hydraulic pump to pressurise the Yellow system and then via a PTU (power transfer unit) the Green system would also be powered but this is not SOP so I suspect the aircraft may have ditched with slats deployed and flaps retracted but don't take that as gospel.

At 2000'agl the FO then:
1 - Check that the cabin pressurisation mode selector is in AUTO.
2 - Switch all engine and APU bleed valves off.
3 - Switch on the overhead 'DITCHING' pushbutton. The outflow valve, the emergency ram air inlet, the avionics ventilation inlet and extract valves, the pack flow control valves and the forward cargo outlet isolation valve all close to slow the ingress of water.

At 1000'agl the FO then:
1 - Makes 'Cabin crew seats for landing' PA.

At 200'agl the FO then:
1 - Makes 'Brace for impact' PA.

At touchdown the FO then:
1 - Engine master switches off.
2 - APU master switch off.

After ditching:
1 - Notify ATC.
2 - Press all engine and APU fire pushbuttons to arm fire extinguisher squibs and isolate fuel, hydraulic, pneumatic and electrical couplings.
3 - Discharge all engine and APU fire extinguishers.
4 - Initiate evacuation.

I have left out a lot of the explanatory text from the QRH for brevity but you can see that this is an almighty amount of work to achieve in an ultimate pressure scenario. I have not even touched upon the proper evacuation checklist. I have also done Monsieur Airbus an injustice but drastically simplifying my explanations of the key systems in an attempt to make them more understandable but I hope it is of interest to those that made it to the end of the text!

In my company we do practice this event in the simulator for both ditching and crash on land. In fact I last did a 4 engine inop landing in the simulator just 6 months ago having simulated a departure from Tokyo followed by a volcanic ash ingestion at FL250 in the climb leading to 4 engine flame out with unsuccessful relight attempts.
We ran the exercise twice and both times managed to successfully glide back to Tokyo with the only damaged being burst main wheels from hammering the brakes. We practice many, many other horrendous scenarios (such as flying the aircraft to successful airport landings with the loss of all power to the flight control surfaces) so you can see that the only subjects that we are not prepared for are the ones we haven't thought of yet.

Hats off to the entire crew for a most amazing job done brilliantly and top marks to Airbus for showing all the doubting Thomas's that they were so very wrong about the strength of the aircraft

[protectthehornet]

sometimes we lose by making things too complex

I just read the very nicely written observations of the A340 captain.

But I am reminded of a similiar class of jetliner and how it would behave in such a situation.

Assuming for a moment that both of its engines were damaged, the plane would still have manual reversion for yaw, pitch and roll. Getting the APU started would power the entire electrical load and hydraulic power *(Ok, the galley should be turned off).

There would be no real need to reconfigure anything. The flight instruments would all be working. The ignition is always ON for takeoff and landing and there would be no real reason to attempt a relight, as it either would or wouldn't work and little if anything would need doing.

The pilot would trim for best glide *min safe speed approximates this, and head for the preselected landing spot. The copilot would manually close the outflow valve by moving a large handle and then flip off two switches to discontinue bleed air.

There would be no RAT, no triple redundent hydraulic system, but the plane would be controllable and NEVER have to ask a computer to maintain a G load or rate of turn.

And the builder of this type of plane had an unplanned ditching in salt water in which tis earlier type of plane was pulled out and easily repaired and flew another 20 years.

The make of course was Douglas and the types are the DC9 and DC8.

We have gone so far towards the use of computers and composites that we have taken a giant leap backwards in simplicity and reliability. KISS...the answer to so many things.


I would even say the tail mounted engines might just have been protected by the leading edge of the wing from the birds, especially at climb attitude. While the underwing engines of the airbus would seem to present their inlet prior to the wing.

Of course it would take some pretty fancy computer modeling to prove the above, and it is only hypothesis.


I also have to wonder if the 727 or L1011 would have had some protection for the center engine due to the S shaped ducting providing air.

Again, the crew did fine. But please KISS *keep it simple stupid.

[Bill G Kerr]

Quote:
"Modern Airbus have 3 electrical systems referred to as the Green, Blue and Yellow systems"

The original poster of this info added a correction to amend 'Electrical' to 'Hydraulic'

(Just for accuracy)

[Graybeard]

Formation Flying

Geese fly in the familiar V to draft off the one directly ahead. As the leader tires, it is replaced by another. This should mean they are all at exactly the same altitude, giving further preference to survival of a Tri-Motor's tail mounted engine if the other two are hit.

Banking a twin with wing mounted engines - even a few degrees - would surely lessen the risk of dual engine failure in a goose encounter.

GB

[Lost in Saigon]

Originally Posted by VNAV PATH

Wileydog3 said :



Probably a semantic problem , but my Manual says :

" thrust protection is not provided (...). As a result thrust overboost can occur at (... ) "

Somewhere else:

" avancing the thrust levers full forward provides some overboost (...)

And refering to my old time engine course , on a thrust vs Temp. graph , until the thrust break temp. the graph is flat and means thrust limitation ( case resistance ) then there is EGT limitation ( mettallurgy resistance) )

Both my 767 and 777 manuals also use the word "Overboost"