Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
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I suppose we can assume more than one bird went into each of the engines. Although it isn't absolutely neccessary. But the flock was obviously big enough to hit two engines. The report will no doubt clarify how many went in to each engine.
It is true that where it hits is an important factor. I saw a bird strike engine where a single fan blade was snapped. It wasn't a CFM56 though. That blade did most of the damage as it or parts of it made it's way into the engine.
It is fair to say you cannot cover all the risks. You cannot design an engine impervious to all kinds of birds, not economically anyway. In many cases a bird strike means an engine shut down even if it doesn't fail. What was unique about both the Rome and NY incidents is that both engines failed or at least were developing insufficent thrust to keep them in the air. How unlikely is that? You might reasonably expect one engine, though damaged to keep running. Yet in two separate incidents, both engines were sufficiently damaged causing them to fail. That is quite a coincidence.
It is true that where it hits is an important factor. I saw a bird strike engine where a single fan blade was snapped. It wasn't a CFM56 though. That blade did most of the damage as it or parts of it made it's way into the engine.
It is fair to say you cannot cover all the risks. You cannot design an engine impervious to all kinds of birds, not economically anyway. In many cases a bird strike means an engine shut down even if it doesn't fail. What was unique about both the Rome and NY incidents is that both engines failed or at least were developing insufficent thrust to keep them in the air. How unlikely is that? You might reasonably expect one engine, though damaged to keep running. Yet in two separate incidents, both engines were sufficiently damaged causing them to fail. That is quite a coincidence.
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Ditch Switch . . . does it actually help?
The A320 ditch switch . . . er ditch button as it actually is . . . may have little effect on the outcome of alighting on water.
Examination of the underside of 1549 shows large leak paths in the 48 Section. The holes are bigger than the combined size of the outflow valve and inlets that would have been closed if the button had been pressed. I hope that the NTSB report concludes that the ditch switch (it does sound better than button) disuse in this incident had no impact on survivability.
Others have thought that its primary benefit is to prevent deicing material from entering the cabin.
Should a crew in work overload conditions be expected to use it?
Examination of the underside of 1549 shows large leak paths in the 48 Section. The holes are bigger than the combined size of the outflow valve and inlets that would have been closed if the button had been pressed. I hope that the NTSB report concludes that the ditch switch (it does sound better than button) disuse in this incident had no impact on survivability.
Others have thought that its primary benefit is to prevent deicing material from entering the cabin.
Should a crew in work overload conditions be expected to use it?
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Regarding damage in fuselage vs the ditch switch...
Is it possible that not using the ditch switch caused some of this damage? Ie water entering unplugged holes might have been violent enough to cause the damage and rip the skin as it were.
Just a thought...
Is it possible that not using the ditch switch caused some of this damage? Ie water entering unplugged holes might have been violent enough to cause the damage and rip the skin as it were.
Just a thought...
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maybe we are going about this the wrong way ;-)
if we can't stop the birds, if we can't design an economical engine that will withstand birdstrikes...
HOW ABOUT clearing more land for emergency landing spots near huge metro areas.
They could use this land for a lovely park, devise a detection system for airplanes within 1000' of the ground over the park's approaches to turn on a siren to warn the park goers to CLEAR THE AREA for emergency landing.
Imagine if the polo grounds were still open? When the polo grounds were open in San Francisco many years ago, I got the impression I could set something down there in one piece...might not takeoff, but down in one piece!
HOW ABOUT clearing more land for emergency landing spots near huge metro areas.
They could use this land for a lovely park, devise a detection system for airplanes within 1000' of the ground over the park's approaches to turn on a siren to warn the park goers to CLEAR THE AREA for emergency landing.
Imagine if the polo grounds were still open? When the polo grounds were open in San Francisco many years ago, I got the impression I could set something down there in one piece...might not takeoff, but down in one piece!
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Fear of Flying artilcle
Sawbones thank you for this link, this has to be the most balanced and well written article on the incident by a non professional pilot that I have read so far. The comparisons between managed risk as practiced by a professional aviator, and the only too evident lack of risk management in the banking industry as perceived by a Finance Director (a species not always held in high regard on prune) was in my humble opinion absolutely spot on. Is this guy just very well informed or was he a Pilot in a previous life?
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I wouldn't expect to see a final well thought-out report from NTSB on this complex accident for some time. However,as quite often happens in the case of AAIB, there are some appropiate actions that can be recommended quite early on ( in the case of the Hatton Cross 777 there was some revised shutdown proceedures following a crash). In this case I would imagine that FAA should be asked to study the habits of relatively large and high flying migrating birds and methods of detecting them.
Keith
Keith
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In Sawbones link I see the old saying "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old, bold pilots". The Captain's remarkable performance in putting down on the Hudson would seem to me to be an exception to that adage. There is at least one old bold pilot around.
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Misd-agin said: -
They couldn't swim either, so it's left to the rescuers to help you get away ...
This is a "ferry great landing"!
Alternatively, since no land was involved, this could be a "great watering down".
Or maybe, we should just call them Sullenbergers.
Any landing that you can walk away from is a great landing.
In this case they couldn't walk away from the landing. Sooooooo, how do you classify it?
In this case they couldn't walk away from the landing. Sooooooo, how do you classify it?
This is a "ferry great landing"!
Alternatively, since no land was involved, this could be a "great watering down".
Or maybe, we should just call them Sullenbergers.
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Ditch Switch
I thought I read also that the aft cargo door was caved in, making the ditch switch redundant. Study of the belly will be valuable, to see if the touchdown load was greater than design, or whether external load and pressure was even considered in the design. It's certainly out of the ordinary.
According to a few who have seen them up close, the Ilyushin is built like a battle ship, and may well survive a water impact intact.
GB
According to a few who have seen them up close, the Ilyushin is built like a battle ship, and may well survive a water impact intact.
GB
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To me it seems that this event is exceptional in many aspects. It would be more interested in the survival aspects, after the landing. I agree that there was almost no time to let c/c or passengers know that a ditching will be performed (and even if they knew, would that have helped, or on the contrary, create more confusion?). But apart from the aircraft having sustained the impact rather well, the key factor in the happy outcome was really the immediate assistance by the Hudson boats/ferries. The ideal place to go!
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Right, the Hudson boats/ferries were the keys to the happy outcome. The crew members of these watercraft were the real heroes. Tienshantasia and Molokai are absolutely right...the pilot and copilot were great aviators and superb professionals. To classify them as heroes diminishes their valuable contribution to safety and wellbeing of the travelling public everytime they fly unless we call them heroes everytime they fly. Think of the countless times their skills and professionalism save the day as they make every vital decisions every time they operate as flight crew in flights that do not have to end in such dramatic fashion, times when their professional pre emptive actions prevented the Swiss cheeseholes from lining up.
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What Happened To Apu
From this foto it appears as if someones made off with the apu.. a nice trophy for someone
Hudson River Plane Crash: Jet goes down in Hudson River in NYC -- Newsday.com
Hudson River Plane Crash: Jet goes down in Hudson River in NYC -- Newsday.com
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I guess its true,"Any landing you can swim away from is a good landing"!!
Amazing fotos of a truly amazing flight, you have to hand it to the crew to have this kind of positive outcome, truly amazing!
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Looks Very Cold
Just had a chance to review the fotos, the last one on the left shows Stalactites or stalagmites (dont remember which is which)growing from the boats hull. Quick response time surely saved lots of lives, don't know how long a human can last in cold water like that, but it can't be long. This has got to be a once in a lifetime landing, my hat off to the crew and all those wonderful boat crews for a timely response. Almost restores ones faity in humanity.
Best regards to one and all.
This has got to be a once in a lifetime landing, my hat off to the crew and all those wonderful boat crews for a timely response. Almost restores ones faity in humanity.Best regards to one and all.
When are they going to announce that it wasn't those big birds from canada that brought the plane down?
They have been strangely quiet about the feather identification at the Smithsonian
They have been strangely quiet about the feather identification at the Smithsonian
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Written account from a jumpseater.
I apologise if this has been already posted on here.
Originally Posted by Allied Pilots Association
The following is an exclusive account for our members from one of our pilots who was onboard US Airways Flight 1549 when the pilots made a successful emergency ditching into New York’s Hudson River. First Officer Susan O’Donnell is a LGA-based 767 pilot. She resides with her family in Winnsboro, South Carolina. Susan is a former Navy pilot, hired at AA in February 1990. She has flown the 727, F100, A300 and now the 767.
The following is her account of the flight, the rescue and recovery response, as well as the support she experienced afterward. This is intended to give each of you a unique insight into the event. We also hope that the crew’s tremendous effort to take care of each other and the nearly instantaneous support of USAPA and APA responders become “takeaways” for our pilots to use when faced with an emergency.
I was a jumpseat rider seated in First Class on Flight 1549 from LGA to CLT, which successfully ditched in the Hudson River. I’ve been asked to share a few of my experiences on that day. Although it was a stressful incident, the successful outcome and the assistance and support I received afterwards have been truly humbling and inspirational.
After introducing myself to and being welcomed aboard by Captain Sullenberger and FO Skiles, I was offered seat 3D, an aisle seat in the last row of First Class. I was in my uniform. Another jumpseat rider took a seat in row 6. These were the last empty seats on the airplane. I wasn’t paying much attention to the flight until, climbing out, there were several loud thumps occurring roughly simultaneously along both sides of the aircraft. “Bird strikes,” I thought. A few seconds later, there was a bit of smoke and the stench of burning bird that seemed to confirm my guess. There was a turn to the left, and I assumed we were returning to LGA.
The passengers were concerned but calm. I couldn’t see any part of the aircraft out the window from my aisle seat. Although I didn’t hear much that sounded encouraging from the engines, I expected we would have at least partial thrust with which to limp back to LGA. We rolled out of the turn, and I could tell we were not maintaining altitude. Then we heard the PA: “This is the Captain. Brace for impact.”
Obviously we weren’t returning to LGA, and I could see enough out the window to realize we’d be landing in the river. The flight attendants began shouting their “brace” litanies and kept it up until touchdown. The descent seemed very controlled, and the sink rate reasonably low. I believed the impact would be violent but survivable, although I did consider the alternative. The passengers remained calm and almost completely quiet. As we approached the water, I braced by folding my arms against the seat back in front of me, then putting my head against my arms. There was a brief hard jolt, a rapid decel and we were stopped. It was much milder than I had anticipated. If the jolt had been turbulence, I would have described it as moderate. Thinking about it later on, I realized it was no worse than a carrier landing.
After landing, the attitude of the aircraft was slightly nose high, but not far off a normal parked attitude, and there was no obvious damage to the cabin or water intrusion where I was. No one was hurt or panicked. We all stood up. I could hear the doors open and the sound of slide inflation. There was a verbal command “Evacuate;” people were already moving towards the doors. I exited through the forward right door and entered the raft. The evacuation up front was orderly and swift, and we were not in the water long before being picked up by various boats, which were extremely quick to the scene. Many passengers were standing on the wing, going from feet dry to nearly waist deep as the rescue progressed. They were of course the first to be picked up by the arriving boats. I was picked up by a large ferry boat, climbing a ladder hanging from the bow. It didn’t take long to get all passengers into the boats and to the ferry terminals.
Once at the terminal, we were met by police, firemen, paramedics, FBI, Homeland Security, the Red Cross, Mayor Bloomberg, and more. Captain Sullenberger continued in a leadership role in the aftermath, talking with the passengers, assembling his crew and including myself and the other jumpseat rider as members of his crew. I was impressed to note that he had the aircraft logbook tucked under his arm. When the Captain asked me if I wanted to join the crew at the hotel, I told him I would really appreciate it as I had lost my wallet. He immediately pulled out his wallet and gave me $20. His concern for me when he had so much else to worry about was amazing.
The USAPA representative was on the scene very quickly, and again included the other jumpseat rider and myself with the rest of the crew. I didn’t see a flight attendant representative; USAPA took care of the FAs as well. The USAPA representative escorted the entire crew to the hospital (we rode in a NYFD fire truck), where we were joined by other USAPA reps and the USAPA lawyer, all of whom continued to consider me as one of the crew. At the hospital, I had finally called the APA “in case of accident” number on the back of my ID badge for APA. I had not initially thought of that as applying to my situation, as a jumpseater on another airline, but I called anyway. I spoke with APA LGA Vice Chairman Captain Glenn Schafer, who departed immediately to come assist me.
After a routine evaluation, they transported us by police car to a hotel, where rooms were waiting. The USAPA version of our Flight Assist was also there, and they spoke to me and offered me whatever assistance I needed, again as if I was one of their own. The USAPA reps also brought all of us some clothing and toiletries that they had purchased. Captain Schafer arrived at the hotel, bringing me some necessary items. He stayed overnight at the hotel, making flight arrangements for me to go home the next day and escorting me to the airport. Captain Mark Cronin from the AA NY Flight Office met me at the departure gate, again offering assistance and support.
I am grateful for the many calls of concern and offers of help I have received, from fellow pilots, union representatives and the company, and I am grateful for and proud of the response and assistance of both USAPA and APA. I would hope that our union would treat another airline’s crewmember as kindly as I was treated. USAirways has also been superb, treating me as if I was a paying passenger. I am also thankful for the professionalism and capabilities of Captain Sullenberger, FO Skiles and FAs Dent, Dail and Welsh. They certainly did our profession proud, and they saved my life.
The following is her account of the flight, the rescue and recovery response, as well as the support she experienced afterward. This is intended to give each of you a unique insight into the event. We also hope that the crew’s tremendous effort to take care of each other and the nearly instantaneous support of USAPA and APA responders become “takeaways” for our pilots to use when faced with an emergency.
I was a jumpseat rider seated in First Class on Flight 1549 from LGA to CLT, which successfully ditched in the Hudson River. I’ve been asked to share a few of my experiences on that day. Although it was a stressful incident, the successful outcome and the assistance and support I received afterwards have been truly humbling and inspirational.
After introducing myself to and being welcomed aboard by Captain Sullenberger and FO Skiles, I was offered seat 3D, an aisle seat in the last row of First Class. I was in my uniform. Another jumpseat rider took a seat in row 6. These were the last empty seats on the airplane. I wasn’t paying much attention to the flight until, climbing out, there were several loud thumps occurring roughly simultaneously along both sides of the aircraft. “Bird strikes,” I thought. A few seconds later, there was a bit of smoke and the stench of burning bird that seemed to confirm my guess. There was a turn to the left, and I assumed we were returning to LGA.
The passengers were concerned but calm. I couldn’t see any part of the aircraft out the window from my aisle seat. Although I didn’t hear much that sounded encouraging from the engines, I expected we would have at least partial thrust with which to limp back to LGA. We rolled out of the turn, and I could tell we were not maintaining altitude. Then we heard the PA: “This is the Captain. Brace for impact.”
Obviously we weren’t returning to LGA, and I could see enough out the window to realize we’d be landing in the river. The flight attendants began shouting their “brace” litanies and kept it up until touchdown. The descent seemed very controlled, and the sink rate reasonably low. I believed the impact would be violent but survivable, although I did consider the alternative. The passengers remained calm and almost completely quiet. As we approached the water, I braced by folding my arms against the seat back in front of me, then putting my head against my arms. There was a brief hard jolt, a rapid decel and we were stopped. It was much milder than I had anticipated. If the jolt had been turbulence, I would have described it as moderate. Thinking about it later on, I realized it was no worse than a carrier landing.
After landing, the attitude of the aircraft was slightly nose high, but not far off a normal parked attitude, and there was no obvious damage to the cabin or water intrusion where I was. No one was hurt or panicked. We all stood up. I could hear the doors open and the sound of slide inflation. There was a verbal command “Evacuate;” people were already moving towards the doors. I exited through the forward right door and entered the raft. The evacuation up front was orderly and swift, and we were not in the water long before being picked up by various boats, which were extremely quick to the scene. Many passengers were standing on the wing, going from feet dry to nearly waist deep as the rescue progressed. They were of course the first to be picked up by the arriving boats. I was picked up by a large ferry boat, climbing a ladder hanging from the bow. It didn’t take long to get all passengers into the boats and to the ferry terminals.
Once at the terminal, we were met by police, firemen, paramedics, FBI, Homeland Security, the Red Cross, Mayor Bloomberg, and more. Captain Sullenberger continued in a leadership role in the aftermath, talking with the passengers, assembling his crew and including myself and the other jumpseat rider as members of his crew. I was impressed to note that he had the aircraft logbook tucked under his arm. When the Captain asked me if I wanted to join the crew at the hotel, I told him I would really appreciate it as I had lost my wallet. He immediately pulled out his wallet and gave me $20. His concern for me when he had so much else to worry about was amazing.
The USAPA representative was on the scene very quickly, and again included the other jumpseat rider and myself with the rest of the crew. I didn’t see a flight attendant representative; USAPA took care of the FAs as well. The USAPA representative escorted the entire crew to the hospital (we rode in a NYFD fire truck), where we were joined by other USAPA reps and the USAPA lawyer, all of whom continued to consider me as one of the crew. At the hospital, I had finally called the APA “in case of accident” number on the back of my ID badge for APA. I had not initially thought of that as applying to my situation, as a jumpseater on another airline, but I called anyway. I spoke with APA LGA Vice Chairman Captain Glenn Schafer, who departed immediately to come assist me.
After a routine evaluation, they transported us by police car to a hotel, where rooms were waiting. The USAPA version of our Flight Assist was also there, and they spoke to me and offered me whatever assistance I needed, again as if I was one of their own. The USAPA reps also brought all of us some clothing and toiletries that they had purchased. Captain Schafer arrived at the hotel, bringing me some necessary items. He stayed overnight at the hotel, making flight arrangements for me to go home the next day and escorting me to the airport. Captain Mark Cronin from the AA NY Flight Office met me at the departure gate, again offering assistance and support.
I am grateful for the many calls of concern and offers of help I have received, from fellow pilots, union representatives and the company, and I am grateful for and proud of the response and assistance of both USAPA and APA. I would hope that our union would treat another airline’s crewmember as kindly as I was treated. USAirways has also been superb, treating me as if I was a paying passenger. I am also thankful for the professionalism and capabilities of Captain Sullenberger, FO Skiles and FAs Dent, Dail and Welsh. They certainly did our profession proud, and they saved my life.
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Third picture from the top - Is that a huge suitcase that a woman seems to be bracing against the aircraft? I read elsewhere that someone insisted in getting her suitcase down from the overhead bin and carrying it off of the plane.
More importantly, thanks "weasil" for posting the marvelous account written by First Officer Susan O'Donnell.
More importantly, thanks "weasil" for posting the marvelous account written by First Officer Susan O'Donnell.