Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
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I'm with Nigel on this.
I have done a fair proportion of my flying in "turkey buzzard" country. They usually fold everything and dive-even if they are above you. When you are slowed below 200kts there is often a chance to make some (token?) evasive action, but above that speed by the time you see them, even if you react immediately, the inertia of the aircraft and "radius of turn effect" means that the effective trajectory of the aircraft is little changed.
Anything smaller than a buzzard is usually an "oh sh*t what was that??!" event.
My company had a landing lights on below FL100 "be seen" policy with mainly birds as the objective.
I have done a fair proportion of my flying in "turkey buzzard" country. They usually fold everything and dive-even if they are above you. When you are slowed below 200kts there is often a chance to make some (token?) evasive action, but above that speed by the time you see them, even if you react immediately, the inertia of the aircraft and "radius of turn effect" means that the effective trajectory of the aircraft is little changed.
Anything smaller than a buzzard is usually an "oh sh*t what was that??!" event.
My company had a landing lights on below FL100 "be seen" policy with mainly birds as the objective.
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ThienShanTaSia
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USAir Captain of flight 1549 hailed a hero!!
Oh puhleeze! A HERO he certainly wasn't!!!
The heroes in this incident were the ferry crew members who came to the rescue of the stricken plane. THEY WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY TO IMMEDIATELY ASSIST IN SOMETHING WHICH WAS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS. THEY SACRIFICED THEIR PERSONAL WELLBEING TO RESCUE THE CREW AND PASSENGERS.
As for the pilots and crew, they performed superbly and are certainly VALUE FOR MONEY. However to call them heroes is stretching really it rich and fat. The captain and copilot are certainly the best professionals and are really a great credit to the pilot profession.........they signed up for a mission on accepting to operate that flight and THEY CERTAINLY PROVED they deserve the greatest respect and gratitude of USAir and the general public. THEYA ARE NOT INCIDENTAL HEROES, but superbly valuable professionals who the public and aviation industry MUST TRULY VALUE, period.
I totally agree with this post. Capt. " Sully " is indeed a great pilot with great flying and quick crisis management skills besides superb presence of mind. These are very much valued assets and US Airways is indeed blessed to have a professional pilot of such caliber. Making him an accidental hero diminishes the great value of such a true professional; airlines and lay people alike do not value the professionalism and unique situational skills ingrained in pilots to deal with all the ever changing and dynamic challenges involved in flight operations.
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USAir Captain of flight 1549 hailed a hero!!
Oh puhleeze! A HERO he certainly wasn't!!!
The heroes in this incident were the ferry crew members who came to the rescue of the stricken plane. THEY WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY TO IMMEDIATELY ASSIST IN SOMETHING WHICH WAS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS. THEY SACRIFICED THEIR PERSONAL WELLBEING TO RESCUE THE CREW AND PASSENGERS.
As for the pilots and crew, they performed superbly and are certainly VALUE FOR MONEY. However to call them heroes is stretching really it rich and fat. The captain and copilot are certainly the best professionals and are really a great credit to the pilot profession.........they signed up for a mission on accepting to operate that flight and THEY CERTAINLY PROVED they deserve the greatest respect and gratitude of USAir and the general public. THEYA ARE NOT INCIDENTAL HEROES, but superbly valuable professionals who the public and aviation industry MUST TRULY VALUE, period.
I totally agree with this post. Capt. " Sully " is indeed a great pilot with great flying and quick crisis management skills besides superb presence of mind. These are very much valued assets and US Airways is indeed blessed to have a professional pilot of such caliber. Making him an accidental hero diminishes the great value of such a true professional; airlines and lay people alike do not value the professionalism and unique situational skills ingrained in pilots to deal with all the ever changing and dynamic challenges involved in flight operations.
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"As for the pilots and crew, they performed superbly and are certainly VALUE FOR MONEY. However to call them heroes is stretching really it rich and fat."
I think you are alone on this statement. I just looked up the definition of hero and I think they made the list. Driving a ferryboat over to pick up the passengers is expected of any boat captain, it is not an option. He would be prosecuted and lose his license if he did not. Yes they were just doing their job but their judgement saved 155 people that day because they did it right.
I think you are alone on this statement. I just looked up the definition of hero and I think they made the list. Driving a ferryboat over to pick up the passengers is expected of any boat captain, it is not an option. He would be prosecuted and lose his license if he did not. Yes they were just doing their job but their judgement saved 155 people that day because they did it right.
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Verbiage at any Hero ceremony: "Actions above and beyond the call of duty..." I think Captain Sullenberger, given his recent statement, would be the first to point that out. "Did the jobs we were trained to do..."
I don't get the argument. Making a Hero of a Pilot doing a great job actually paints other pilots as run of the mill, or less than "doing the jobs they were trained to do." Can we move on?
AF
I don't get the argument. Making a Hero of a Pilot doing a great job actually paints other pilots as run of the mill, or less than "doing the jobs they were trained to do." Can we move on?
AF
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BEagle quotes an old tale:
I heard the same story prolly 15 years ago, told of an engine test that scattered bits of blades over half the county. I had always regarded it as largely true, but a recent check of snopes.com: Urban Legends Reference Pages says it is apocryphal at best.
But still a good tale!
...Probably an urban myth, but one can only wonder at the surprised expression on the cat's face as it hurtled backwards towards the test item!
But still a good tale!
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Airfoilmod -
"Verbiage at any Hero ceremony: 'Actions above and beyond the call of duty..." I think Captain Sullenberger, given his recent statement, would be the first to point that out. "Did the jobs we were trained to do...'
I don't get the argument. Making a Hero of a Pilot doing a great job actually paints other pilots as run of the mill, or less than 'doing the jobs they were trained to do.' Can we move on?"
Gotta go with you on that 'airfoilmod'. I would NEVER take anything away from Captain Sullenberger and his crew, but I made thousands of successfull landings myself and no one got hurt. I'm just thankful I never had to be put to a test as demanding as the one he went through during my career.
"Verbiage at any Hero ceremony: 'Actions above and beyond the call of duty..." I think Captain Sullenberger, given his recent statement, would be the first to point that out. "Did the jobs we were trained to do...'
I don't get the argument. Making a Hero of a Pilot doing a great job actually paints other pilots as run of the mill, or less than 'doing the jobs they were trained to do.' Can we move on?"
Gotta go with you on that 'airfoilmod'. I would NEVER take anything away from Captain Sullenberger and his crew, but I made thousands of successfull landings myself and no one got hurt. I'm just thankful I never had to be put to a test as demanding as the one he went through during my career.
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Doing your duty in an emergency makes you a hero?
English case law 1809, Stilk v Meyrick jugement.
The captain of a ship offered the remaining crew extra wages after two men deserted. The captain refused to honour the payment once the ship was safely home.
"But the desertion of a part of the crew is to be considered an emergency of the voyage as much as their death; and those who remain are bound by the terms of their original contract to exert themselves to the utmost to bring the ship in safety to her destined port. Therefore, without looking to the policy of this agreement, I think it is void for want of consideration, and that the plaintiff can only recover at the rate of £5 a month".
The captain of a ship offered the remaining crew extra wages after two men deserted. The captain refused to honour the payment once the ship was safely home.
"But the desertion of a part of the crew is to be considered an emergency of the voyage as much as their death; and those who remain are bound by the terms of their original contract to exert themselves to the utmost to bring the ship in safety to her destined port. Therefore, without looking to the policy of this agreement, I think it is void for want of consideration, and that the plaintiff can only recover at the rate of £5 a month".
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No this is not the first large airliner ditching, just that it was so long ago, mid 50's I recal.
Pan American lost a stratocruiser in the Pacific, I cannot remember why but in the back of my mind, they had time to plan the ditching, and again I believe there were no serious injuries.
Someone will post the full story in due course.
Regards
Col Tigwell
Pan American lost a stratocruiser in the Pacific, I cannot remember why but in the back of my mind, they had time to plan the ditching, and again I believe there were no serious injuries.
Someone will post the full story in due course.
Regards
Col Tigwell
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Let the birds avoid us
I have heard it suggested that as the birds have more chance of avoiding us, it doesn't pay to change direction for fear of confusing the birds first reaction.
If the birds can't avoid us with their high manoevrability its unlikely that we would be in any position to avoid them at that moment.
If the birds can't avoid us with their high manoevrability its unlikely that we would be in any position to avoid them at that moment.
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Pan American lost a stratocruiser in the Pacific, I cannot remember why but in the back of my mind, they had time to plan the ditching, and again I believe there were no serious injuries.
Here's a recent remembrance from the SFO Chronicle:
Danville pilot has historical predecessor
More here:
Pan Am Flight 943 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The Flight Attendants
Sorry for the deviation,
Does anyone know the circumstance or reason regarding one of the flight attendants breaking a leg.
This has been widely reported,however having followed this thread from the start,I can find little referance to their imput in the evacuation of the aircraft.
No flames please, just a informed opinion.
Does anyone know the circumstance or reason regarding one of the flight attendants breaking a leg.
This has been widely reported,however having followed this thread from the start,I can find little referance to their imput in the evacuation of the aircraft.
No flames please, just a informed opinion.
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My brother, Andrew, is the Editor for Financial Director .. a London-based magazine with an obvious circulation base. His editorial draws an interesting parallel between the US Air incident and the handling of the global banking/financial crisis by industry "Captains."
PPrune readers might find this very interesting.
Editor's letter: Fear of flying - Financial Director
Sawbones
B767 Captain
PPrune readers might find this very interesting.
Editor's letter: Fear of flying - Financial Director
Sawbones
B767 Captain
I would suggest the entire US Air Crew and the others that participated in the rescue of passengers and crew all qualify.
As to the rest of the us being less than Heroes....Will Rogers once said "We cannot all be Heroes...someone has to stand on the side and applaud as they march by."
As to the rest of the us being less than Heroes....Will Rogers once said "We cannot all be Heroes...someone has to stand on the side and applaud as they march by."
he⋅ro
/ˈhɪəroʊ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [heer-oh] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -roes; for 5 also -ros.
1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.
3. the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc.
4. Classical Mythology.
a. a being of godlike prowess and beneficence who often came to be honored as a divinity.
b. (in the Homeric period) a warrior-chieftain of special strength, courage, or ability.
c. (in later antiquity) an immortal being; demigod.
/ˈhɪəroʊ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [heer-oh] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -roes; for 5 also -ros.
1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.
3. the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc.
4. Classical Mythology.
a. a being of godlike prowess and beneficence who often came to be honored as a divinity.
b. (in the Homeric period) a warrior-chieftain of special strength, courage, or ability.
c. (in later antiquity) an immortal being; demigod.
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Another ditching forgotten
NWA also ditched a 377, in Puget Sound, sometime back in the late 1950s as well, I recall, and there were no fatalities there, either. Something to do with deploying cowl flaps; the FE thought he was retracting them. Very hazy, I was just a kid then but it was a big story in Seattle.
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I have a very good compliation of photos of the whole episode which is in pps format and I have no idea how to upload it. Can anyone help. The whole selection is well put together.
GF
GF
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Originally Posted by capt.cynical
... regarding one of the flight attendants breaking a leg....
CJ
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All Stratocruisers had Cowl Flap controls (toggle switches) on the FE Panel. Almost all were rigged to be toggled 'UP' to open and 'DN' to close, while there were a few that were rigged just the opposite! The aircraft in question was one of the odd balls, so when the FE thought he was closing the cowl flaps on take-off, he was actually running them full open. Cowl plaps on those engines were like barn doors. All that horsepower at that high gross weight was not enough to overcome the drag, and down they went. Sad.