Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Hayling Riviera
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds to me like a different ATCO about 5 minutes after AWE1549 disappears from his radar. As a UK ATCO, I empathised with him when he had no idea if the aircraft had crashed, or ditched "safely".
I'm sure NY Tracon's CISM (Critical Incident Stress Management) scheme kicked in to relieve him asap in order to give him support.
As has been said, very professional on both sides, and let's not pick holes in the RT!
I'm sure NY Tracon's CISM (Critical Incident Stress Management) scheme kicked in to relieve him asap in order to give him support.
As has been said, very professional on both sides, and let's not pick holes in the RT!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Ballymun
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Calling all Armchair Experts/Investigators!! Why not send Capt Sully a copy of the CAP 413: Radiotelephony Manual. Maybe he might learn something about proper RT procedures/flying/airmanship...
Seriously though, in an Emergency situation like this, crossing the t's and dotting the i's, isn't important. We leave that for the annual line check and 6 monthly sim. This was REAL WORLD folks........
Seriously though, in an Emergency situation like this, crossing the t's and dotting the i's, isn't important. We leave that for the annual line check and 6 monthly sim. This was REAL WORLD folks........
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: LAX
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds to me like a different ATCO about 5 minutes after AWE1549 disappears from his radar.
The 'expert', what a pleb
Time to go away and enjoy your pension Mr Moody - you are an embarrassment
Perhaps those who may be too young to remember should have a read:
The story of BA flight 009 and the words every passenger dreads ... | Mail Online
or have a look and listen:
Give the bloke a little respect, he deserves I reckon.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: In a house
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It all goes back to Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.
Had he have given the full Cap 413 Mayday call, although it would have sounded very professional, a big black smoking hole on Broadway wouldn't have looked too clever.
Mr Moody, the retired BA expert had a dig at the American RT, was shocked that the Cactus crew never declared a mayday and that the controller never gave them a discreet frequency to talk on.
Some people are never satisfied.
Had he have given the full Cap 413 Mayday call, although it would have sounded very professional, a big black smoking hole on Broadway wouldn't have looked too clever.
Mr Moody, the retired BA expert had a dig at the American RT, was shocked that the Cactus crew never declared a mayday and that the controller never gave them a discreet frequency to talk on.
Some people are never satisfied.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: US
Posts: 604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have only listened to the short clip available on the sky news site, but from what I have heard the pilot doesn't call a mayday or let the controller know that he is declaring an emergency and requires priority, I know he says he's hit birds and has lost thrust, but no emergency MAYDAY call.
He may not have used the word mayday, but it seems clear that TRACON immediately treated it as an emergency.
As I often say there is a difference between doing "things right" and the "right thing" - this crew obviously did the latter.
A discreet frequency was surely the last thing they needed - it's bad enough trying to set a new (unexpected) frequency on a "normal" departure!
A discreet frequency was surely the last thing they needed - it's bad enough trying to set a new (unexpected) frequency on a "normal" departure!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They didn't have to say MAYDAY, EMERGENCY or PAN PAN. The controller knew immediately from the radio transmissions and what the crew said, and their responses to his inquiries, and by watching the a/c descending, that this was an absolute emergency.
He responded immediately by notifying LGA tower to stop all departures, thereby reducing his workoad and clearing the runways of aluminum.
After flying into NY for years you recognize the voice immediately.
He responded immediately by notifying LGA tower to stop all departures, thereby reducing his workoad and clearing the runways of aluminum.
After flying into NY for years you recognize the voice immediately.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Farnborough hants UK (eglf)
Age: 76
Posts: 487
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GROUND ATC Well done as well
Have listened acouple of times to the recording and how well the pilot
handled things but i want to add my thoughts and praise for the ATC
Controller he did not seem flustered in the Face of what was a potential
Disaster .Well done that Man you to deserve more recognition for a
job well done.
Tony
Farnborough
handled things but i want to add my thoughts and praise for the ATC
Controller he did not seem flustered in the Face of what was a potential
Disaster .Well done that Man you to deserve more recognition for a
job well done.
Tony
Farnborough
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: KSA
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
misd-agin They didn't have to say MAYDAY, EMERGENCY or PAN PAN. The controller knew immediately from the radio transmissions and what the crew said, and their responses to his inquiries, and by watching the a/c descending, that this was an absolute emergency.
He responded immediately by notifying LGA tower to stop all departures, thereby reducing his workoad and clearing the runways of aluminum.
He responded immediately by notifying LGA tower to stop all departures, thereby reducing his workoad and clearing the runways of aluminum.
Exactly. What some here fail to realize is that R/T is NOT an end unto itself, it's communication. US ATC doesn't need a verbatim "mayday" call to begin emergency response as the situation dictates, as this audio clearly shows. Capt Sully's stating he had lost thrust in both engines and was returning...explaining the situation.. is tantamount to an emergency declaration and there is certainly no hesitation on the part of the controller due to him failing to understand this. In other words, the fact that an emergency existed was communicated within seconds, and appropriate responses began by the Controller which would have told Cpt Sully that his emergency status was obviously understood by ATC.
SD.
Mr Moody, the retired BA expert had a dig at the American RT, was shocked that the Cactus crew never declared a mayday and that the controller never gave them a discreet frequency to talk on.
Mr Moody, the retired BA expert had a dig at the American RT, was shocked that the Cactus crew never declared a mayday and that the controller never gave them a discreet frequency to talk on.
Well, NObody except ab initio BA air cadets care what Mr. Moody is "shocked by" or what he thinks about American R/T anyway.
Not declaring a mayday made no difference to the outcome, so all ponderings are irrelevant to this accident.
But, out of curiosity, why not declare one, would you, what is the disadvantage, is it a cultural thing or would it just not occur to you during an emergency? I probably would say the word, although I can't guarantee it, but that's the way I was brought up.
As I say just curious.
But, out of curiosity, why not declare one, would you, what is the disadvantage, is it a cultural thing or would it just not occur to you during an emergency? I probably would say the word, although I can't guarantee it, but that's the way I was brought up.
As I say just curious.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Farnborough hants UK (eglf)
Age: 76
Posts: 487
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mayday ?
If things were happening that Fast would you have Time to even think
about putting out A mayday ? .
Correct proceedures yes everytime but there has to be the time you
just are so busy Saving your passengers and crew you dont do it
Was anyone concerned about lack of MAYDAY Call ?
Tony
farnborough
about putting out A mayday ? .
Correct proceedures yes everytime but there has to be the time you
just are so busy Saving your passengers and crew you dont do it
Was anyone concerned about lack of MAYDAY Call ?
Tony
farnborough
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After listening to the ATC, the message got across without the need for a 'Mayday' call. Time permitting I'm sure one would have been put out but when you consider the altitude at which the event occured and the time constraints whilst probably attempting to relight an engine, complete drills etc, then I think it is realistic that a 'mayday' call was not sent.
Just my opinion
Rgds
CL747
Just my opinion
Rgds
CL747
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Asgard
Posts: 488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree with the consensus that a Mayday call was not required.....too little time, and unnecessary, in that of course it was a mayday ; A320 with no power and not much altitude? The pilot had said what the problem was most concisely.
Isolating the incident, by imposing RT silence or transferring non emergency traffic to another frequency is an ideal....but it may take time to set up....finding a body to do the work or a spare workstation are just two possible problems. Possibly a technique to employ with longer playing incidents.
Isolating the incident, by imposing RT silence or transferring non emergency traffic to another frequency is an ideal....but it may take time to set up....finding a body to do the work or a spare workstation are just two possible problems. Possibly a technique to employ with longer playing incidents.
Calling all Armchair Experts/Investigators!! Why not send Capt Sully a copy of the CAP 413: Radiotelephony Manual. Maybe he might learn something about proper RT procedures/flying/airmanship...
The CAP 413 is a british document, with all the silly british exceptions to the ICAO Std.
When are you ever going to grow up and say CLEARED ILS iso. that nonsense I have to go through every day......
Cheers