Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Miller 774,
"In Sawbones link I see the old saying "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old, bold pilots". The Captain's remarkable performance in putting down on the Hudson would seem to me to be an exception to that adage. There is at least one old bold pilot around."
... then again, those of us well into our fifties don't like to consider ourselves as old!
Sawbones
"In Sawbones link I see the old saying "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old, bold pilots". The Captain's remarkable performance in putting down on the Hudson would seem to me to be an exception to that adage. There is at least one old bold pilot around."
... then again, those of us well into our fifties don't like to consider ourselves as old!
Sawbones
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CreteHurricane,
Will relay your kind words to my brother, Andrew, whose "Fear of Flying" Editorial was posted on page 65.
Although he is not a pilot, he once worked as a Dispatcher at a busy flying school in Montreal. He keeps himself very informed of developing stories within the airline industry. I only take partial credit for that, as our pub lunches together during my London layovers hardly qualify as offical briefing sessions!
Nice to know that there are good journalists out there.
Will relay your kind words to my brother, Andrew, whose "Fear of Flying" Editorial was posted on page 65.
Although he is not a pilot, he once worked as a Dispatcher at a busy flying school in Montreal. He keeps himself very informed of developing stories within the airline industry. I only take partial credit for that, as our pub lunches together during my London layovers hardly qualify as offical briefing sessions!
Nice to know that there are good journalists out there.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DORSET
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the infamous game:
Hero on the Hudson - Free Arcade & Classic Game from AddictingGames
Hero on the Hudson - Free Arcade & Classic Game from AddictingGames
the last one on the left shows Stalactites or stalagmites (dont remember which is which)growing from the boats hull.
skadi
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I was impressed to note that he had the aircraft logbook tucked under his arm.
I had a coworker who crash landed a piston twin years ago on a road at night after an engine failure. The plane was leaking fuel so he beat feet a safe distance away. He realized that he hadn't yet signed the logbook so he climbed back in wreckage to make the autograph. Sounds funny but these days it almost seems that the FAA is more concerned with documenting the crash than preventing it.
The Reverend
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sydney,NSW,Australia
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the last one on the left shows Stalactites or stalagmites (dont remember which is which)growing from the boats hull.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: FR
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Few life vests and some seat cushions... I wonder if during evacuation, the passengers were instructed to remove the seat cushions? Why not the vests, then? I could imagine that for a person in very cold water, the vest has an advantage (dont have to hold on to it, so one has a better chance of survival ONLY of course if medical assistance is eventually provided)?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
No, not really. Once you have hold of that cushion you have it in a death grip. You can't grab or hold anything else but the original grab will never be released. Trust me, been there.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
another view
An email I recieved, apologies if it has been posted previously, I haven't read every page
Received this from a Retired AF/Airline friend. Can't verify. JP
BEING A OLD BOEING, McDONALD, DOUGLAS, LTV, & LOCKHEED, STICK AND THROTTLE GUY, THIS CONFIRMS A LOT OF THE " POOP " THAT WAS AROUND ABOUT AIRBUS AIRPLANES-------DICK
A different slant on 1459, and likely the closest to the truth. An opinion about the A320 from one unidentified pilot!
I didn't know Sully the A320 pilot who landed in the Hudson River . I've seen him in the crew room and around the system but never met him. He was former PSA and I was former Piedmont and we never had the occasion to fly together.
The dumb **** press just won't leave this alone. Most airliner ditchings aren't very successful since they take place on the open ocean with wind, rough seas, swells and rescue boats are hours or days away. This one happened in fresh smooth water, landing with the current and the rescue boats were there picking people up while they were still climbing out of the airplane. It also happened on a cold winter day when all the pleasure boats were parked. Had this happened in July it would be pretty hard not to whack a couple of little boats. Sully did a nice job but so would 95% of the other pilots in the industry. You would have done a nice job.
Don't be surprised if the Airbus fly by wire computers didn't put a perfectly good airplane in the water. In a older generation airplane like the 727 or 737 300/400 the throttles are hooked to the fuel controllers on the engine by a steel throttle cable just like a TBM or a Comanche. On the Airbus nothing in the cockpit is real. Everything is electronic. The throttles, rudder and brake pedals and the side stick are hooked to rheostats who talk to a computer who talks to a electric hydraulic servo valve which in turn hopefully moves something.
In a older generation airplane when you hit birds the engines keep screaming or they blow up but they don't both roll back to idle simultaneously like happened to Flt. 1549. All it would take is for bird guts to plug a pressure sensor or knock the pitot probe off or plug it and the computers would roll the engines back to idle thinking they were over boosting because the computers were getting bad data. The Airbus is a real pile of ****. I don't like riding on them. Google Airbus A320 Crash at the Paris Airshow in 1998. Watch the video of an airbus A320 crash into a forest because the computers wouldn't allow a power increase following a low pass. The computers wouldn't allow a power increase because they determined that the airspeed was too low for the increase requested so the computers didn't give them any. Pushing the throttles forward in a Airbus does nothing more than request a power increase from the computer. If the computer doesn't like all the airplane and engine parameters you don't get a power increase. Airbus blamed the dead crew since they couldn't defend themselves. A Boeing would still be flying.
BEING A OLD BOEING, McDONALD, DOUGLAS, LTV, & LOCKHEED, STICK AND THROTTLE GUY, THIS CONFIRMS A LOT OF THE " POOP " THAT WAS AROUND ABOUT AIRBUS AIRPLANES-------DICK
A different slant on 1459, and likely the closest to the truth. An opinion about the A320 from one unidentified pilot!
I didn't know Sully the A320 pilot who landed in the Hudson River . I've seen him in the crew room and around the system but never met him. He was former PSA and I was former Piedmont and we never had the occasion to fly together.
The dumb **** press just won't leave this alone. Most airliner ditchings aren't very successful since they take place on the open ocean with wind, rough seas, swells and rescue boats are hours or days away. This one happened in fresh smooth water, landing with the current and the rescue boats were there picking people up while they were still climbing out of the airplane. It also happened on a cold winter day when all the pleasure boats were parked. Had this happened in July it would be pretty hard not to whack a couple of little boats. Sully did a nice job but so would 95% of the other pilots in the industry. You would have done a nice job.
Don't be surprised if the Airbus fly by wire computers didn't put a perfectly good airplane in the water. In a older generation airplane like the 727 or 737 300/400 the throttles are hooked to the fuel controllers on the engine by a steel throttle cable just like a TBM or a Comanche. On the Airbus nothing in the cockpit is real. Everything is electronic. The throttles, rudder and brake pedals and the side stick are hooked to rheostats who talk to a computer who talks to a electric hydraulic servo valve which in turn hopefully moves something.
In a older generation airplane when you hit birds the engines keep screaming or they blow up but they don't both roll back to idle simultaneously like happened to Flt. 1549. All it would take is for bird guts to plug a pressure sensor or knock the pitot probe off or plug it and the computers would roll the engines back to idle thinking they were over boosting because the computers were getting bad data. The Airbus is a real pile of ****. I don't like riding on them. Google Airbus A320 Crash at the Paris Airshow in 1998. Watch the video of an airbus A320 crash into a forest because the computers wouldn't allow a power increase following a low pass. The computers wouldn't allow a power increase because they determined that the airspeed was too low for the increase requested so the computers didn't give them any. Pushing the throttles forward in a Airbus does nothing more than request a power increase from the computer. If the computer doesn't like all the airplane and engine parameters you don't get a power increase. Airbus blamed the dead crew since they couldn't defend themselves. A Boeing would still be flying.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: southwest
Age: 78
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MODS - we need you!
The above garbage is doing the rounds on the internet.
Where has this fictitious old timer been these last 20 years? He has not realised that all modern engines are FADEC controlled: on Airbus, Boeing, Embraer.. you name it.
And he has the nerve to rake up the Habsheim story again. That pilot "Rambo" didn't know what he was doing, and some pax paid for it with their lives.
I'm sure glad this old fart is retired, if he exists, so he can only kill himself.
P.S. it goes without saying that it wasn't at the Paris Air Show and it wasn't in 1998. It was in 1988 at Habsheim. There were no dead crew.
Where has this fictitious old timer been these last 20 years? He has not realised that all modern engines are FADEC controlled: on Airbus, Boeing, Embraer.. you name it.
And he has the nerve to rake up the Habsheim story again. That pilot "Rambo" didn't know what he was doing, and some pax paid for it with their lives.
I'm sure glad this old fart is retired, if he exists, so he can only kill himself.
P.S. it goes without saying that it wasn't at the Paris Air Show and it wasn't in 1998. It was in 1988 at Habsheim. There were no dead crew.
Last edited by Dysag; 1st Feb 2009 at 16:24.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is my first post here on PPruNE.
If I remember the Habsheim accident correctly the A320 performed perfectly. The engines actually spooled up faster than the official specifications and was running on full power when the aircraft was plowing itīs way through the trees.
Itīs a modern myth all the discussions about "computer who not let the pilot increase the power from the engines".
In my opinion the luckily outcome of the Hudson ditching was a combination of a good crew and a good aircraft. The A320 performed very good in this case.
If I remember the Habsheim accident correctly the A320 performed perfectly. The engines actually spooled up faster than the official specifications and was running on full power when the aircraft was plowing itīs way through the trees.
Itīs a modern myth all the discussions about "computer who not let the pilot increase the power from the engines".
In my opinion the luckily outcome of the Hudson ditching was a combination of a good crew and a good aircraft. The A320 performed very good in this case.
A reminder as this thread goes off again.
There is no viable information yet released that has explained why the engines apparently stabilized near idle.
I wouldn't bet on the FADECs, the Birds or Airbus at this point with so little information.
There is no viable information yet released that has explained why the engines apparently stabilized near idle.
I wouldn't bet on the FADECs, the Birds or Airbus at this point with so little information.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: EU
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
here is no viable information yet released that has explained why the engines apparently stabilized near idle.
Sorry if I missed this, probably buried between stalag-jokes.
The NTSB has stated that they beleve that one of the engines managed to keep running just enough to continue powering hydraulics, hence they were able to deploy flaps and slats which aided in making a slower speed landing on the water. Had both engines been dead, the RAT would have only allowed them to get some slats extended.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Captain Sullenberger and the flight 1549 crew were just introduced and featured at the playing of the National Anthem at the start of the Superbowl in TPA.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
After all, the Laudair accident was - in fact, not opinion - a FADEC accident so the theory of steel cables and the dumb Boeing vs. Airbus argument went out the window decades ago.
There was some controversy about the electrical control of the T/R's on the PW4060 engines compared to the earlier JT9D's with hydromechanical control. Is this perhaps what you are referencing?
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: alameda
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PJ2
Whether a pilot is currently employed or not should make little difference to this forum. It used to be a badge of honor to have been furloughed at one time or another.
I've worked for 3 small airlines and one big one. Two of the small ones went out of business. That didn't make a bit of difference to my skills as a pilot. I was within 14 numbers of being furloughed at the big airline.
I know the post we are talking about is flawed. But, don't for a minute think that everything is known about every aspect of aviation. Cables or wires...heck, even NASA is looking at fly by light to overcome the problems with fly by wire.
There are plenty of flawed posts on this thread. I can't even believe that someone is thinking that the pilot went back for the logbook of the plane...it was his personal clipboard, most likely with the headcount. I kept the headcount somewhere else, including the number of ''babes in arms'' (not to be confused with the mickey rooney film of the same name).
So, let's leave that post where it is. Sure the accident he spoke about was confused with something else, but the question about controlling the engine is interesting, if unanswered at this time. So, I won't answer it and maybe you shouldn't answer it yet...let the NTSB and even then I hope a new series of tests is done on this type of engine...and all engines.
Glad to see PIT won the superbowl.
I've worked for 3 small airlines and one big one. Two of the small ones went out of business. That didn't make a bit of difference to my skills as a pilot. I was within 14 numbers of being furloughed at the big airline.
I know the post we are talking about is flawed. But, don't for a minute think that everything is known about every aspect of aviation. Cables or wires...heck, even NASA is looking at fly by light to overcome the problems with fly by wire.
There are plenty of flawed posts on this thread. I can't even believe that someone is thinking that the pilot went back for the logbook of the plane...it was his personal clipboard, most likely with the headcount. I kept the headcount somewhere else, including the number of ''babes in arms'' (not to be confused with the mickey rooney film of the same name).
So, let's leave that post where it is. Sure the accident he spoke about was confused with something else, but the question about controlling the engine is interesting, if unanswered at this time. So, I won't answer it and maybe you shouldn't answer it yet...let the NTSB and even then I hope a new series of tests is done on this type of engine...and all engines.
Glad to see PIT won the superbowl.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I can't even believe that someone is thinking that the pilot went back for the logbook of the plane...
The feds have had the heat on logbooks the past couple of years, I'd probably swim back to the plane to get it too!
Great game, too bad about the score for the PHX fans.