Aer Lingus Troubles ahead
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Aer Lingus Troubles ahead
OK guys,
Rumour has it that Irish Carrier Aer Lingus is looking at dropping 1 maybe 2 Trans Atlantic routes due to mounting losses. Mentioned are Baltimore and maybe Newark. I understand that the company is also looking at loss making European routes especially Stockholm. Also in the pipeline is the fact that the company may not now hire the last 2/3 batches of cadets that they took on recently
Sad times ahead, not only for EIN but most carriers
Rumour has it that Irish Carrier Aer Lingus is looking at dropping 1 maybe 2 Trans Atlantic routes due to mounting losses. Mentioned are Baltimore and maybe Newark. I understand that the company is also looking at loss making European routes especially Stockholm. Also in the pipeline is the fact that the company may not now hire the last 2/3 batches of cadets that they took on recently
Sad times ahead, not only for EIN but most carriers
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Hi
Yes heard that too about dropping Baltimore and Newark for the winter. Would be surprised if Stockholm went as anytime I saw the loads in the system they were fairly healty in both C an Y class.
Bye
Yes heard that too about dropping Baltimore and Newark for the winter. Would be surprised if Stockholm went as anytime I saw the loads in the system they were fairly healty in both C an Y class.
Bye
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Hmm worrying times ahead for EI i aggree.
Baltimore never did terribly well and Continental have competed strongly with the Newark route especially since they have an excellent hub there.
This past year has been bad enough for Aer Lingus but I predict worse times ahead.
The introduction of GO competing with them directly on GLA and EDI is causing concern and it's only a matter of time before GO expands their routes out of Dublin along with possibly Easyjet and even Buzz.
This will cause a lot more pain for EI than it will for Ryanair.
Also you must remember that one of the main factors keeping some of the US Majors from expanding routes into Dublin is the SNN stopover rule (For every TA flight that leaves DUB one must also leave SNN).
The EU will force this out sooner rather than later (12-18 months?) and i'd reckon on seeing Delta and Continental expanding their routes into Dublin and United starting some at this point.
Talk about being between a rock and a hard place!
Baltimore never did terribly well and Continental have competed strongly with the Newark route especially since they have an excellent hub there.
This past year has been bad enough for Aer Lingus but I predict worse times ahead.
The introduction of GO competing with them directly on GLA and EDI is causing concern and it's only a matter of time before GO expands their routes out of Dublin along with possibly Easyjet and even Buzz.
This will cause a lot more pain for EI than it will for Ryanair.
Also you must remember that one of the main factors keeping some of the US Majors from expanding routes into Dublin is the SNN stopover rule (For every TA flight that leaves DUB one must also leave SNN).
The EU will force this out sooner rather than later (12-18 months?) and i'd reckon on seeing Delta and Continental expanding their routes into Dublin and United starting some at this point.
Talk about being between a rock and a hard place!
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Blue Hair
I agree with you totally re GO on the Scottish routes, its EI who will suffer not FR, however I do expect EasyJet to come in on the DUB-AMS route and this will be another blow for EI. It would make sense for Easyjet with their hub at AMS. Cheap fares from Ireland to Europe can only be had by flying with FR, and of course that is limited to Paris and Brussels. With Easyjet in the frame, via AMS the rest of their European network will be available to hard pressed Irish travellers
I sincerely hope, that one of the rumours I heard and passed on is not true....that is about the cadets currently with EI, I would rather see routes dropped than careers
I agree with you totally re GO on the Scottish routes, its EI who will suffer not FR, however I do expect EasyJet to come in on the DUB-AMS route and this will be another blow for EI. It would make sense for Easyjet with their hub at AMS. Cheap fares from Ireland to Europe can only be had by flying with FR, and of course that is limited to Paris and Brussels. With Easyjet in the frame, via AMS the rest of their European network will be available to hard pressed Irish travellers
I sincerely hope, that one of the rumours I heard and passed on is not true....that is about the cadets currently with EI, I would rather see routes dropped than careers
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BWI and EWR are both routes served through SNN and Continental needs to operate a separate 757 to SNN to enjoy the privelege of a direct DUB trip.
Transatlantic routes from DUB (particularly these two) could be considerably more successful if nonstops were permitted, but with the one for one rule, these stopovers are the price the airline pays to have nonstops to BOS, JFK, ORD and LAX.
Noticed in this week's Business Post, there are rumblings of a possible general election in the Autumn; if so, the fate of EI might well be a major issue. MO'R doesn't have the slightest interest in aviation policy and there is considerable concern that EI will be sold to an airline (or worse still, an investment group) which would only seek to run down the t/a operation. Long hauls must be developed and there is still plenty of room for growth.
Selling to BA (or anyone else) with the SNN stop still in place would effectively give the message that transatlantic flights are not important. It would effectively be an invitation to shut them down and invite airlines to cherry pick the high yield pax through LHR or elsewhere.
Transatlantic routes from DUB (particularly these two) could be considerably more successful if nonstops were permitted, but with the one for one rule, these stopovers are the price the airline pays to have nonstops to BOS, JFK, ORD and LAX.
Noticed in this week's Business Post, there are rumblings of a possible general election in the Autumn; if so, the fate of EI might well be a major issue. MO'R doesn't have the slightest interest in aviation policy and there is considerable concern that EI will be sold to an airline (or worse still, an investment group) which would only seek to run down the t/a operation. Long hauls must be developed and there is still plenty of room for growth.
Selling to BA (or anyone else) with the SNN stop still in place would effectively give the message that transatlantic flights are not important. It would effectively be an invitation to shut them down and invite airlines to cherry pick the high yield pax through LHR or elsewhere.
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In relation to cadets (information from a reliable source), I heard the very same the other day about the possibility of the cancellation of the current cadet training programme. Does anyone know how many there are in training at the moment?
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If EI is sold and the TA routes are chopped, where does that leave Irelands future US tourist income? You've just given up the right to self determination in one of the biggest markets this country has.
Sure, there may be others prepared to pick up the routes...maybe, but only under their own terms surely! And as aeroskid has pointed out...who will volunteer to operate a wildly uneconomic government policy that was designed only to please a small but powerful lobby in the west of Ireland, and was foisted (as has every other disastrous government whim) on an unprotesting and docile Aer Lingus.
This country has already lost control of its telecoms development to an outside owner. All plans for broadband high-speed internet services are now shelved. Who's going to pay for the cost of installing the infrastructure for such development? If the foreign owners won't, then who will? And what does that mean for Irelands competitiveness in the global IT business?
The off-loading of strategic state assets might seem like good policy today...popular too with a brain-washed electorate. But when the repercussions hit home in the coming years, it will be too late to undo the damage.
Sure, there may be others prepared to pick up the routes...maybe, but only under their own terms surely! And as aeroskid has pointed out...who will volunteer to operate a wildly uneconomic government policy that was designed only to please a small but powerful lobby in the west of Ireland, and was foisted (as has every other disastrous government whim) on an unprotesting and docile Aer Lingus.
This country has already lost control of its telecoms development to an outside owner. All plans for broadband high-speed internet services are now shelved. Who's going to pay for the cost of installing the infrastructure for such development? If the foreign owners won't, then who will? And what does that mean for Irelands competitiveness in the global IT business?
The off-loading of strategic state assets might seem like good policy today...popular too with a brain-washed electorate. But when the repercussions hit home in the coming years, it will be too late to undo the damage.
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Saddened to hear about the continuing troubles of shamrock..I have always enjoyed travelling with them when crossing the pond.Shame that such a good airline should be forced to downsize and lose out to inferior rubbish like GO.Makes a good case for protectionism on the DUB-LON route.Connections between 2 busy capitals should have superior service.Let the riff-raff fight it out for less prestigious connections.This cut-throat competition hasnt led to better airlines as some would suppose..all it has done is give airlines like GO and EZY a good excuse for providing no service whatsoever.
Interesting perspective 'rubish airlines'.
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Ok guys, for what its worth, I do not see EI ending all TA routes at all, I guess BWI and EWR may go, but my info says that JFK, BOS and LAX are doing especially well. LAX is a major "premier" route. ORD may be in jeopardy, but is doing just OK.
As for European routes, Just look at what competition did on the CPH route. As soon as SAS increased services to 3 a day EI just walked away from it. Now, I know that SAS are feeding into their own network at CPH..but just walking away and doing nothing seems strange. I would not be surprised at all if a few "shocks" with regard to European routes were announced over the next few months.
As an aside, Has anyone experienced the service in "premier" on any european routes lately..?, In my opinion is is an absolute disgrace. Service, food and staff all equally leave a lot to be desired. On the TA routes its a lot different and Better..!
As for European routes, Just look at what competition did on the CPH route. As soon as SAS increased services to 3 a day EI just walked away from it. Now, I know that SAS are feeding into their own network at CPH..but just walking away and doing nothing seems strange. I would not be surprised at all if a few "shocks" with regard to European routes were announced over the next few months.
As an aside, Has anyone experienced the service in "premier" on any european routes lately..?, In my opinion is is an absolute disgrace. Service, food and staff all equally leave a lot to be desired. On the TA routes its a lot different and Better..!
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Well Flame
Its true that in the last year that catering has certainly not been up to scratch.
As for the staff its the same bunch that fly across the pond as do european flights so why there should be a difference i dont know and it not easy having to hand out a product that is not up to scrath day in day out especially when you have seen what it should be like a you get the hassle all the time for it.
Its been a tough few years for the staff of EI they have put up with a lot and its about to get worse.From what I have been told by our pax is were second to none when it comes to the front line staff especially in the cabin.
So its not all doom and gloom we still smile,but watch out some of us do bite
airpoint
[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: airpoint ]
Its true that in the last year that catering has certainly not been up to scratch.
As for the staff its the same bunch that fly across the pond as do european flights so why there should be a difference i dont know and it not easy having to hand out a product that is not up to scrath day in day out especially when you have seen what it should be like a you get the hassle all the time for it.
Its been a tough few years for the staff of EI they have put up with a lot and its about to get worse.From what I have been told by our pax is were second to none when it comes to the front line staff especially in the cabin.
So its not all doom and gloom we still smile,but watch out some of us do bite
airpoint
[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: airpoint ]
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Bad times, is no excuse for unfriendliness and rudeness, which I can only describe the number one on a recent flight to L.A., while I was in premier class. From the start, the atendant, clearly looked, craby, as the flight had just come up from Shannon, where she joined it and seemed to hold a grudge, that all the pax, are getting on in Dublin, and not in the Banner county. She was the typical red haired spinster from Limerick, who had an amazing opinion of herself, the wine, by the attitude she held, must be from her own cellar, as she was very slow to hand it out! This is only one example of a list faults, they have, and perhaps there are just too many to resolve. I actually, no longer look forward, travelling on Lingus, there service is just dropping and droping, which is a shame, because its the only thing that seperates them from the no frills. Travelling, east before going West accross the pond, now seems atractive, considering the service and friendlinesss, ands smiling faces I know will greet me in LHR, its sad, but its attractive.
Nobody would like to see the green shamrock disappearing, but competition is healty, and Fungus have had a fair crack of the whip, for long enough, but cannot seem to get it together, on providing the complete service.
Nobody would like to see the green shamrock disappearing, but competition is healty, and Fungus have had a fair crack of the whip, for long enough, but cannot seem to get it together, on providing the complete service.
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looks like they should shut the place down, start all over again with the good people and leave the reckers, the lazy and the people sitting around outside looking in. Then they may have a chance and get market approval.....otherwise they are history. None of the major financial intitutions will lend them a dime I have been told by a good friend who is the boss of one of these places. 
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Just to clarify a point, with regard to service on Aer Lingus flights....I have flown "up front" on numerous airlines over the past 10 years and I must say that Aer Lingus would come out bottom of my own list for service. I do admit that a lot of staff give their best, when it comes to service, but a lot also could not give a damn and the problem is...that it shows.
Without doubt, in my experience, and I know others will disagree, the service standards on BA "up front" are the industry best. Staff always seem to have the attitude that you are important and want to maake your trip pleasent. They have been without exception , friendly and efficient.
On EI flights it is common place to see the "No1" standing in the galley directly operations and resting, yet with BA the "No1" is always in the cabin looking afer the PAX, if BA can do this why can EI not do it as well.
Before finishing this one, I am sure taht EI staff are up against it with regards to management at the company...but please when I am flying...remember its not my fault
Without doubt, in my experience, and I know others will disagree, the service standards on BA "up front" are the industry best. Staff always seem to have the attitude that you are important and want to maake your trip pleasent. They have been without exception , friendly and efficient.
On EI flights it is common place to see the "No1" standing in the galley directly operations and resting, yet with BA the "No1" is always in the cabin looking afer the PAX, if BA can do this why can EI not do it as well.
Before finishing this one, I am sure taht EI staff are up against it with regards to management at the company...but please when I am flying...remember its not my fault
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I must disagree about BA, I flew to BKK up front and was astonished at the lack of interest in the Pax. I've never flown up front with EI but the best I've come accross is Upper Class with VA.
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Unfortunately service quality with EI is very hit and miss, and by my own experience it's more miss than hit recently.
Moral is at an all time low and many (myself included) have jumped ship in the last months with many more of the best staff to follow.
There is massive doubt about the future viabilty of the company so those who can are leaving for greener pastures (of which there are many despite some of the doomsayers).
All you are left with are the more senior staff (most of whom could give a toss) and very junior inexperienced staff.
Things could have been so very different....... but anyone with two brain cells to rub together has seen the light and are making other plans. Shame
Moral is at an all time low and many (myself included) have jumped ship in the last months with many more of the best staff to follow.
There is massive doubt about the future viabilty of the company so those who can are leaving for greener pastures (of which there are many despite some of the doomsayers).
All you are left with are the more senior staff (most of whom could give a toss) and very junior inexperienced staff.
Things could have been so very different....... but anyone with two brain cells to rub together has seen the light and are making other plans. Shame
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Hey Capt Sensible, is the message coming a cross from the previous comments that AL is giving a dire service, the morale is through the floor and it is time for someone else to take up the reins? I am not out to get you but having travelled with you alot recently, I was never on time, the cabin crew did'nt give a toss and the customer service was on a par with a low cost competitor of yours. Tiime for a roll over boys
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Well, call me a cynic but as far as I can see service standards have fallen in every walk of life. Why are you surprised at that?
People everywhere are working harder than ever before, often for less money and on poorer conditions. As Bluehair (an ex EI CCM) said above, the good people just walk. Meanwhile customer expectations are rising! Why are you surprised if service personnel no longer have the time to smile sweetly and pass the time of day with you? This is deregulation of labour markets baby!
The yanks started it...ask them about service standards from their CCM's.
You say that BA or KLM or -whoever- are better. Maybe sometimes (see paragraphs above), but I also keep reading on these pages how BA CCM's make more money than the F/O's on their flights. I guess if you pay your CCMs that well you'll be more likely to get exceptionally good service.
Are you in favour of that? I'm not.
Bearcat...why didn't you travel with FR? Their punctuality is excellent...so I read in their ads anyhow. Has to be true, eh?
[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: CaptSensible ]
People everywhere are working harder than ever before, often for less money and on poorer conditions. As Bluehair (an ex EI CCM) said above, the good people just walk. Meanwhile customer expectations are rising! Why are you surprised if service personnel no longer have the time to smile sweetly and pass the time of day with you? This is deregulation of labour markets baby!
The yanks started it...ask them about service standards from their CCM's.
You say that BA or KLM or -whoever- are better. Maybe sometimes (see paragraphs above), but I also keep reading on these pages how BA CCM's make more money than the F/O's on their flights. I guess if you pay your CCMs that well you'll be more likely to get exceptionally good service.
Are you in favour of that? I'm not.
Bearcat...why didn't you travel with FR? Their punctuality is excellent...so I read in their ads anyhow. Has to be true, eh?
[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: CaptSensible ]