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15 year allowed to fly, Turkish pilot fired

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15 year allowed to fly, Turkish pilot fired

Old 23rd Sep 2008, 09:12
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Sign of the times (?): 15 year allowed to fly, Turkish pilot fired

Form nu.nl, Dutch news site:

Turkse piloot laat 15-jarige achter stuurknuppel
Uitgegeven: 23 september 2008 10:51

ISTANBUL - Een piloot van de Turkse luchtvaartmaatschappij Anadolujet is ontslagen omdat hij een 15-jarige passagier de stuurknuppel van het toestel had laten overnemen.


Dat gebeurde volgens Turkse media dinsdag op 10.000 meter hoogte op een vlucht van Ankara naar Erzerum.
De jongen is gek van vliegtuigen en heeft al geoefend in een simulator. Hij had op papier een reeks van vragen voor de piloot van de Boeing 737-400, waarop die hem uitnodigde in de cockpit.
Toilet
Toen de piloot naar het toilet moest, mocht de jongen in de pilotenstoel plaatsnemen achter de stuurknuppel. Op dat moment bestuurde de co-piloot de Boeing.
De media kregen lucht van de zaak nadat de piloot een foto van het voorval op internet had geplaatst.
This translates roughly to:

A pilot form the Turkish company Anadolujet has been fired for letting a 15 year-old passenger take control of the aircraft. This happened, accoording to Turkish media, at 10.000 metres altitude on a flight from Anakara to Erzerum. The boy was fascinated by planes and had practised in a simulator. He had a number of questions for the pilot on paper. The pilot then invited him to the cockpit.
When the pilot needed to visit the toilet, he allowed the boy to take place in the pilot's seat. At that moment the co-pilot was flying the plane.
After a picture of the boy in the pilot's seat was placed on the internet by the pilot, the media caught the scent.

Last edited by hardhatter; 25th Sep 2008 at 05:52. Reason: Changed title, due to appropriate thread drift
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 09:23
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Media Hype. Again.

Except he didn't actually 'take control' did he? He sat in an unoccupied crew seat.

As things are though the pilot should have known better.
 
Old 23rd Sep 2008, 09:28
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Can't see the problem myself, when you consider the ten year olds in management.
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 10:10
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Aeroflot Flight 593.
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 10:58
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yeah but of course the pilots are not going to GIVE him control what's the big deal? when I was 8 the Captain had let me sit on his seat for a minute to take a picture. It was a A310 of Sabena, I remember him clearly making me understand to NOT TOUCH ANYTHING, JUST WATCH! Then I remember I got gifts from all the cabin crew. This airline along with UTA was my favourite airline
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 12:13
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Thing is, in the picture the boy is clearly holding the controls, so it´s no wonder the captain got into trouble. See here:

Yolcuya kokpitte poz verdirdi THY kaptanı pilotluğa indirdi - Hürriyet

Now, where exactly is the A/P disconnect button again? Under his thumb perhaps?
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 12:29
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wellwellwell, when a certain british captain let a football player VISIT his cockpit on a PRIVATE charter, almost the whole world of pprune cried out loud of how bad it was to break the closed cockpit door rules.
Now on a regular airline flight its about A/P or not. Strange.

A pre 9/11 non-event, nowadays gives ya the boot...this boy had probably the experience of his lifetime, being allowed in the seat of a 37, and its spoiled because he knows the pilot is being sacked for it. Not to talk about the spoiled career of a fellow pilot.
I remember being allowed on the F/D of a Trident, early seventies and the cap let me even switch some stuff (probably lights or so)...I was 5 or 6 years old and will NEVER forget it.

The only thing that was just plain stupid, was putting it on the inet.
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 12:31
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His thumb is nowhere near the disconnect button. Pre 9/11 this kinda thing would happen a lot more then you think, but more often on the ground. The flightcrew where foolish but some peoples reactions here make it seem like they where seconds from a 'Fiery plunge of death!'

And to try and compare this to the Aeroflot incident is ridiculous...
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 12:42
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I would have thought the real problem here is letting non-flight crew through the locked door. The FO was the PIC, and even if the auto pilot was disconnected, I would have thought the FO would notice quite quickly!

When I was younger I remember asking nicely to be able to sit up front for a few minutes and being allowed to. Was great fun!
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 13:08
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1800ed

FO was PIC? Interesting, that would imply that he was a both steat trained TRI or TRE assessing a line captain - can you please confirm? And if this was an assessment or training flight then the probability of a flight deck visitor is pretty slim, wouldn't you agree? Then again, if you know some more could you please shed some light?

As for the flight deck visitors, when I was a wannabe nipper I regularly used to get flight deck visits - taught me quite a bit about what would be involved in my eventual career. Anyway, as of next year I will be flying an aircraft where they can see (and walk into) the flight deck at any stage (although poking their head in would be a bit on the naughty side!).

RIX
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 13:09
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Not qualified - no sitting

Not sure what most airlines have as a policy, but would assume that once a/c anticollision light on (for both engine or tug movement), then none other than an engineer or qualified pilot may sit in either seat. Think its somewhere in the depths of air law? Open to correction.
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 15:09
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FO was PIC? Interesting, that would imply that he was a both steat trained TRI or TRE assessing a line captain - can you please confirm?
For the pedants, he probably meant PF.
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 15:13
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Here we go again!

How many of you pilots out there are pilots because you had the opportunity to take a seat in the front office? There's a distinct difference between lightly holding the yoke for a photo and actually "controlling" the aeroplane.

The AFL accident involved two kids and NO pilots at the controls. Quite a difference!

Spent many an hour in the front left or front right seat myself in the past.

What a pathetic world we now live in.
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 16:11
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He's not even looking out the window. How can he be looking for traffic?



More fine media discouraging kids to have careers in aviation.
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 16:20
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whether it was safe or not (in my opinion I wouldn't have considered it a risk) the issue here is not risk exposure but judgment, along the same argument lines of the more sensible pablo posters.
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 16:38
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SLF here.

Safety on aviation is based on following rules and regulations.
Pilots have to follow regulations, if they do not comply they will jeopardize safety. Pilot shall not judge if the regulations are appropriate or not, they should just follow them.
No matter what was the rule 10, 20 or 30 years ago.
Regarding if the punishment was appropriate, I will let pilots to judge it.
Thanks
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 17:06
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The management had no option but to let him go. We all know it was quite safe, but the unwashed masses of Chicken sandwich munching SLF do not. As well as the hysterical media interest in anything aviation. Seconds from disaster, flaming inferno, death plunge. So they had to move him on, as you cannot easily fight already entrenched opinion, no matter how wrong it is. Pax numbers would have fallen to zilch, even now the Chicken eaters will probably consider switching. Probably the kid posted the photo, not knowing that kicking a hornets' nest is a BAD idea

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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 17:34
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This Picture is taken from behind...
presumeably from the door area...
So there was a third person in the Flightdeck... It must have been the Cpt himself...
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 18:40
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"unwashed masses of chicken sandwich munching SLF"... LOL! Excellent

ASFKAP, so are we supposed to remain locked in there for hours and end without food, water or toilet breaks?!
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Old 23rd Sep 2008, 19:07
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ASFKAP
............. I have no time for operators or individuals that adopt an 'A la carte' approach to regulations......
As a Passenger your opinion is registered. However, in your post above the support for your opinion is suspect to me.

Passengers typically do not know what regulations are in affect and apply to the flight that they are on. The crew is much more in tune with the regulations and the latitude permitted by them in their decision making.

Of course I am making no judgements in the specific case cited in the opening thread post.
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