Ryanair Loss of Pressurisation 25th Aug

[surreysue]

2 of the 3 aircraft I fly on use the "ring main" or bottle system so each mask in the unit has to be pulled individually to start the flow of oxygen.
Someone earlier said Boeing were behind the times (or something similar ) - all 3 Boeing aircraft I fly on have an automatic decompression announcement that plays when the masks come down so it must be an optional extra that the individual airline can choose to have fitted.
The cabin lights will also automatically turn on to bright and the seat belt signs will illuminate so you don't need to worry on night flights.
Cabin crew understand passengers are completely out of their comfort zone - if they weren't you wouldn't need us.
I appreciate it was a frightening experience, for the crew as well as the passengers, but it sounds like it was handled well and I would have thought gratitude would be a more appropriate response than criticism from Mr Hadow.

[Glamgirl]

I found this clip on that famous film clip site. It's not Ryanair, but I just wanted to show how pax don't listen to the safety demo.

I apologize that I don't know how to do a "clicky", and I apologize if this link doesn't work. It's a fairly long (and partly boring) clip, but it's just the beginning you need to watch (if you wish).

YouTube - Scary Landing at (GOT) Gothenburg Airport

Gg

[Rainboe]

What poncey creep calls himself 'Pen' then? What is this? Some 'Boy named Sue' Let's-call-ourselves-by-a-girlie-name name? Who exactly is Mr. Hadow? What does it do? What's with the attitude of 'do you know who I am? (er....no) Are you aware I need as much publicity as what I can get so I am going to crawl all over you to raise my own profile and make lots of noise about this?' (er....ye....I'm getting the picture). 'And if that means I have to tear apart the professional reputations of the crew (who did a magnificent job) and the airline (who are OK), then they may go down knowing it was for a good cause (my publicity)! (er.....yes, I think I can see that is going to happen). 'Did you know I went to Eton?' (er....it appears to have done not a lot for you).

Thank you for your contribution to aviation Mr. Hadow. Now you may return to your previous state of anonymity.

[overthewing]

Most passengers take very little notice of the safety briefing,perhaps they could do it before leaving the gate and have some passenger participation!

The safety briefing is a mantra, almost without meaning. What more is there to learn after the first fifty, hundred, thousand times of listening? The only new piece of information to take in is the number of rows between you and the emergency exits, and for that you don't need to watch someone demonstrate how to undo a seatbelt. You are not going to get better at saving yourself in an emergency according to how many times you concentrate on the briefing.

No matter how many times you watch a person in a uniform fasten the ties around their waist and waggle the air-topup tube, you learn nothing new until you actually do it yourself. Who would expect a non-driver to watch a video of someone driving a car, and then expect them to go out and drive perfectly?

Why don't airlines let you practice? Why can't you try putting on a lifevest during your interminable wait at the gate? Why doesn't every gate have a demonstration oxygen mask? In all the space devoted to duty-free, why isn't some provision made for a patch where you could practice opening emergency doors?

Why don't aircraft have numbers above the rows, indicating number of rows to the exit in front, and the exit behind? Trying to spot the row where the crew member is vaguely signaling an exit, is hard on a long plane; why don't they say 'Exits at Row 15', or whatever, so you could do some calculations?

Why are you allowed to shove luggage under the seat in front, presumably jamming the lifejacket of the person in front? Why are you encouraged to put carry-ons the weight of small cars into the overhead lockers, where there's a good chance they'll come undone in turbulence and drop onto passengers' heads?

Why do they lower the cabin lights for night landings (in order to maximise night vision in case of evacuation), but encourage you to put on reading lights that negate the effect?

Why are you told about adopting the brace position, in seats so cramped, it's impossible for a tallish adult to do so?

Why are you allowed to stuff litres of flammable liquid under your seat / in the lockers, instead of putting it in some secure location?

The whole safety culture is so half-hearted and unconvincing - so stuck in limbo between 'glamorous and effortless travel' and 'means of transport where big things can go wrong very quickly' - it's hardly surprising that 'customers' treat that safety briefing with limited respect.

[brightstardolphin]

No opinions from me, I do not know enough about the subject....just congratulations to the flight deck and the cabin crew for their professionalism... as someone said... "you guys earn your entire years salary in five mins by making sure that everyone arrived safe.... and alive"

WELL DONE!

[Glamgirl]

Overthewing,

If you're on board an aircraft and would like a closer look at any of the safety demonstration equipment, such as the oxygen mask, all you have to do is ask... I'd be happy for you to have a little play with it (as long as I get it back in one piece). If you need clarification on anything in the procedures, all you have to do is ask. If I get no questions, I assume everyone is happy with how things work, as I can't ask everyone individually if they understood or need clarification. We'd never get off the ground...

In regards to a practice area in the terminal. Good idea, but when you think about how many different aircraft types there are and different equipment, the area would take up so much space that the airport authority would lose out of valuable shop space. Also, how would you feel if you "practiced" equipment for a B737 just to walk on board an A320? The doors are different, and some equipment vary from airline to airline.

Airlines do take safety seriously, believe it or not. If we didn't, we'd all be out of business.

If you still need explanations to certain things about flying/safety/etc, feel free to start another thread for such questions or you're more than welcome to pm me if you wish. I will try my best to have an explanation for you.

Hope this clarifies somewhat and is helpful.

Gg

[OPENDOOR]

Quite.
To all those involved in a/c safety. I am sure you will wish to join me in congratulating Mr. Pen Hadow, the Arctic explorer and the BBC Today program for their outstanding contribution to public awareness of in flight emergency procedures.
For example;
“Mr. Hadow said some of the oxygen masks failed to work and the crew did not make any announcements to reassure passengers”
“The next thing, the oxygen masks were dropping. My highest priority was to get a mask on to my son who was sitting next to me in a bemused and frightened state.
"It was obvious to me that there was depressurisation in the cabin but there was no announcement and no evidence of the cabin crew for most of this experience. Why on earth didn't they give a few more calming words to the passengers?"
He added his mask "wasn't filling up with oxygen and neither was my son's".
He said. "He was hyperventilating. I looked at the lady on my left and her's hadn't filled up either. From where I was sitting I could see about 20 masks and only a few of them were inflating. It was extremely variable as to who got oxygen in their masks, and the cabin crew didn't seem to know what to do."
I am sure Mr. Hadow would welcome your thoughts. [email protected]

[overthewing]

Glamgirl, that's a very kind offer, and if there is some way to 'get my hands' on real equipment, I would be most interested.

It never occurred to me that I could ask to see the things they use for the security briefing; usually the cc do the demo during the taxi, then pack the equipment away and take seats for take-off. By the time the seat-belt signs go out, the cc are normally rushing to get trolleys out, and it seems heartless to bother them with an extra request.

In any case, I feel this is a responsibility that belongs to a different part of the process. I would much prefer spending the two hours before boarding, in a training room where I could familiarise myself with multiple door types, and perhaps have a go at throwing myself down a small slide, than wandering about displays of perfume and Harrods tea! If the airport authorities aren't keen for me to do that - on the basis that it would stop me from spending money - that tells us a lot about the REAL safety consciousness of the business.

I am always prepared to pay more for a seat if it comes from an airline with a good reputation for reliable aircraft and safe flights. Any airline that offered me a chance to maximise my own personal survival chances, by letting me educate myself - would have me on its frequent flyer program at once. If nothing else, it's a business opportunity going astray!

[Feux Verts]

I'm ex PPL and not flown for 20 years until I flew on Ryanair in May. The Cabin Crew on that flight were spot on with the safety demo and I understood all they were passing on. If that flight had been the de pressurised flight I'm sure I would have been comfortable with what was happening.

What can I say - the Flight Crew and the Cabin Crew did the job exactly as trained. Mr O'Leary handled the Press correctly.

The crew deserve a major round of applause for reacting as they did.

[Glamgirl]

Overthewing,

I hear what you're saying. I'd just like to point out that it's not the airlines that run the airports, so the airlines don't really get a say in what is placed in the terminal.

You could email different airlines and ask if you can somehow come to their training facilities to have a go at doors etc. I doubt if you will be allowed, due to security issues, but if you don't ask, you don't get.

In regards to the doors, they are heavier than they look, especially on the 737 (no power assist). Therefore, health and safety and what we call manual handling comes into training as well as the technicality of opening the doors.

Honestly, feel free to ask the crew to have a look at the equipment at some point. Part of our job is to be able to reassure our pax and if that reassures you, then I'd definately be more than happy to oblige.

You do have to trust us though, that we all have excellent training and know our jobs.

Gg

[Feux Verts]

Steamchicken

For example, the UK's nuclear warning system in the cold war propagated a regular beep over the wires all the time; you turned up the volume to check it was there. It was officially described as a "confidence tone"

Of course that was providing the 6v battery in the WB400 hadn't gone flat!!!

FV

[Flower Duet.]

All Aircraft types are different and some masks are activated by pulling
on one mask, and other Aircraft you need to pull on your own mask.

[snoepys]

I think the crew should be congratulated for the way they dealt with the situation.I wish the passegers would realise the pilots priority is not on making a ******* pa during a rapid depressuriation!!.The priority is to make an emergency descent and bring the aircraft down to safe level where passengers can breathe without the use of an oxygen mask.And as for the cabin crew how can passengers complain that they never made a pa.They also need to have their oxygen masks on.They crew all followed the correct procedures.And just because this idiot Pen Hadow who gave an interview to reporters is an Artic Explorer it doesnt mean he knows more than anyone else.In fact why is he quoted as being an Artic Explorer,what relevance does that have to anything.Ryanair handled this situation in an very professional way.

[Buzzdoff]

Hope for us all

Mr Pen Hadow shoots himself spectacularly in the foot when it is proven that his oxygen mask did work when operated properly. If he is an accomplished explorer then there is hope for us all, personnally I congratulate him in getting all the way from Devon to Bristol Airport. He said his son was bemused during the incident................only because he sat next to his dad.

[overthewing]

Glamgirl, I have absolute confidence in most cabin crew I've flown with (although Garuda was not an experience I ever want to repeat)! I don't doubt that you'll get me out in a crisis and know exactly what to do.

But I do know I'll need help, and I'll probably dither and do the wrong thing - because the means by which I normally make myself capable of dealing with a physical task are not available. That's the way it is, and I accept that - but when 'professionals' are labelling my fellow ditherers 'morons' and a bunch of other derogatory terms, simply because they've been scared in a situation for which the 'system' educates them inadequately, I feel pretty annoyed.

And to suggest that inattention to the safety briefing is the problem, doesn't stand up to much rational analysis, it seems to me.

[mercurydancer]

Is Mr Hadow just another product of the "complain" culture... just because things didnt happen as he expected that he should complain? sometimes unpleasant things happen but that doesnt mean that they are necessarily wrong. He's just Naomi Campbell in a duvet jacket.

I can certainly recall the safety briefings about the masks and that the bags dont inflate. I would certainly be frightened but also would comprehend a controlled descent for what it is. (Ive been through something similar courtesy of the RAF) Four minutes is a long time to be in fear but also a long time to collect your thoughts.The comment from the flight crew as to completing successfully an emergency rapid descent would be reassuring. All in all I would appreciate that a controlled rapid deescent is a part of flight transport and it sounds like the crew handled the situation well.

[kingdee]

Here Here

Well done to crew and Ryanair .

[rubik101]

If you are sitting in your seat and you pull the Oxygen mask down sufficiently to enable you to put it over your mouth and nose, then the Oxygen has been activated.
The line from the mask has a short lanyard connected to it which pulls a small pin from the Oxygen Generator. This removal initiates the production of Oxygen. There is no need to actually 'tug' on the mask.
The 'tug' is simply to ensure that the small pin is removed from the actuator.
When I last looked, Oxygen was colourless and odourless so our intrepid explorer, amongst others, has no way of knowing if the system is working.
I am inclined to agree with those posts that suggest that a nice green twizzling blobby thing in the line indicating flow of some sort might well be appreciated.
Also, a small notice stuck to the resevoir bag, telling the passenger what is occuring and not to expect a message from the crew until the decent is completed might not go amiss.
Cost about 4p.

[NSEU]

Someone earlier said Boeing were behind the times (or something similar ) - all 3 Boeing aircraft I fly on have an automatic decompression announcement that plays when the masks come down so it must be an optional extra that the individual airline can choose to have fitted

.

Perhaps Ryanair flies the only Boeing without this feature? What airline would not want this feature (for fear of being sued). I've certainly never heard of a modern jet airliner which doesn't have one. Having said that, Boeing aircraft have had these kind of systems for at least 35 years (not exactly modern).

For info:
Older aircraft have old-fashioned cassette tapes playing the announcement. Modern technology has put the announcement on a computer chip (similar to the music on an iPod).

Also, even older systems are designed to increase the volume level automatically (and quite dramatically so) during decompression events. PA volume levels are also increased for normal events (e.g. for engines running and higher airspeeds)

Perhaps the system was fitted to this Ryanair jet and either it didn't work or the passengers were in such a panic, they don't remember the announcement going off (3 times... as is the standard). Very unlikely, but perhaps the same problem which caused the pressurisation system to fail also caused the auto announcement system to fail

BTW, I have seen the pressurisation outflow valves fluctuate on one Boeing model when people have used walkie talkies (on the ground). Perhaps the pax in seat 26A was not only NOT listening to the safety brief, he/she also was talking on her, perhaps faulty, mobile phone. It would be kinda ironic if passengers calling on their mobiles to tell their loved ones that they are going to die might possibly be contributing to their own deaths.

[Wangja]