Ryanair Loss of Pressurisation 25th Aug
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Thanks itsresidual 
So will all four masks fed from the same PSU start delivering oxygen from a single 'candle' the moment the first is pulled i.e. is it four masks/lanyards rigged to pull the same pin on one candle/PSU over each three seats?
Oh and don't need to be an expert to answer Big Burd. I can tell you the problem was that an emergency occurred, and we don't yet know how or why. Fascinating how each of us with different takes on the matter can enlighten one another, ain't it?
So will all four masks fed from the same PSU start delivering oxygen from a single 'candle' the moment the first is pulled i.e. is it four masks/lanyards rigged to pull the same pin on one candle/PSU over each three seats?Oh and don't need to be an expert to answer Big Burd. I can tell you the problem was that an emergency occurred, and we don't yet know how or why. Fascinating how each of us with different takes on the matter can enlighten one another, ain't it?
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Our Arctic expert had significantly changed his story on the ITN news this lunchtime.
Having not experienced such an event can someone explain his latest comments. Some of the "bladders" ( bags) inflated and others did not.
If we accept his statement, is this a case of SLF blowing rather than sucking or maybe kinking the hose?
Having not experienced such an event can someone explain his latest comments. Some of the "bladders" ( bags) inflated and others did not.
If we accept his statement, is this a case of SLF blowing rather than sucking or maybe kinking the hose?
Not sure whether this has been mentioned but one presume Pen Hadow has more access to the media than the average "punter!.
If anybody wants to email him about his comments, I suggest they go to his website at:-
Pen Hadow
I am aghast at some of the unadulterated c**p that is spouted by the media these days, even the BBC! Obviously Terry Wogan's recent comments about the Beeb were right on target. Am amazed that 9 minutes (yes that's NINE minutes) of air time was given to this non event.
Well done to the crew (flight deck and cabin)!
If anybody wants to email him about his comments, I suggest they go to his website at:-
Pen Hadow
I am aghast at some of the unadulterated c**p that is spouted by the media these days, even the BBC! Obviously Terry Wogan's recent comments about the Beeb were right on target. Am amazed that 9 minutes (yes that's NINE minutes) of air time was given to this non event.
Well done to the crew (flight deck and cabin)!
Marchino61
Your comments made some sense before you came to this part of the paragraph:
That's exactly what you're not supposed to do! (Another one who hasn't listened properly to the safety briefing
)
The simple point is this: if you're with children, they consume less oxygen (air) than adults. Therefore they can survive (however unpleasantly) whilst you fit your mask and check that it is working. If you fit the child's mask first and there is some problem, you are rapidly running out of air yourself, and you could both be in trouble, hence the briefing.
Next time 'listen and learn'
Your comments made some sense before you came to this part of the paragraph:
you could even remind pax to help others first
)The simple point is this: if you're with children, they consume less oxygen (air) than adults. Therefore they can survive (however unpleasantly) whilst you fit your mask and check that it is working. If you fit the child's mask first and there is some problem, you are rapidly running out of air yourself, and you could both be in trouble, hence the briefing.
Next time 'listen and learn'
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Whilst I agree that passengers should be kept informed as much as possible Baron Rouge - we have no idea what was going on on the flightdeck. I would argue that in a potentially disastrous situation, the pax briefing is somewhere down the list... The integrity and safety of the aircraft itself is by no means the only consideration, but it must override all others.
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On the subject of automatic PA's
Consider
Does the aircraft have the capability in it's PA system to play pre-recorded messages?
If so
Pre-recording one isn't a problem
Triggering it is solvable
Turning the PA volume up automatically could be difficult
Would the Pax actually listen to it??
Should all airlines be made to cover the costs of all of the above for, what is after all, not a common occurence? Which in the first scenario could mean having to replace airframes!
Don't forget there was a thread in Pprune a few weeks ago complaining when an auto "prepare to ditch" messge was inadvertedly manually triggered.
Consider
Does the aircraft have the capability in it's PA system to play pre-recorded messages?
If so
Pre-recording one isn't a problem
Triggering it is solvable
Turning the PA volume up automatically could be difficult
Would the Pax actually listen to it??
Should all airlines be made to cover the costs of all of the above for, what is after all, not a common occurence? Which in the first scenario could mean having to replace airframes!
Don't forget there was a thread in Pprune a few weeks ago complaining when an auto "prepare to ditch" messge was inadvertedly manually triggered.
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Ryanair pilots & Cabin Crew
I fly with Ryanair on a very regular basis .
( 20 flights + this year with another 6 booked ) .
Not once have i ever watched a safety demonstration onboard where i have thought for one minute that the Ryanair Cabin Crew where simply going thru the motions !
I have seen Crew severly reprimand Pax who where talking , playing the arse & not listening and on one particular flight the No 1 stewardess actually made a complaint to the captain about some rowdy rugby fans and he came over the P/a and gave them a right rollicking .
They have always been very vigilent , particurly concerning the over wing / emergency exit seats ( my favourites due to extra legroom ) and i too my embarresment have been told off on a nummber of occaisions for minor infringments .
Ryanair get an awfull lot off stick from the media and sadly from within the aviation industry but i can from my own personal experience's of flying with them praise the pilot's & cabin crew for being very professional .
( 20 flights + this year with another 6 booked ) .
Not once have i ever watched a safety demonstration onboard where i have thought for one minute that the Ryanair Cabin Crew where simply going thru the motions !
I have seen Crew severly reprimand Pax who where talking , playing the arse & not listening and on one particular flight the No 1 stewardess actually made a complaint to the captain about some rowdy rugby fans and he came over the P/a and gave them a right rollicking .
They have always been very vigilent , particurly concerning the over wing / emergency exit seats ( my favourites due to extra legroom ) and i too my embarresment have been told off on a nummber of occaisions for minor infringments .
Ryanair get an awfull lot off stick from the media and sadly from within the aviation industry but i can from my own personal experience's of flying with them praise the pilot's & cabin crew for being very professional .
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beamender99 as I recall on the generator I blew, the bags didn't inflate in the same way a balloon does. The bags filled and looked the same as an empty plastic shopping bag, i.e. not looking pressurized but not flat. I assume that is down to the low pressure produced, but then again I was at sea level, so removing 5 - 6 psi from ambient would probably make them look different. Does that make sense?!
As itsresidualmate said, no need to tug on the mask. Unless you're 12 feet tall you'll need to pull the mask down to reach your face. This action alone pulls out the pin to start the chemical oxygen generator. An 'Oxygen On' flag dropping down in the panel for passengers to see might be reassuring though.
My airline does not mention that the bag on the pax oxygen masks may not inflate, though I've heard it somewhere in a safety briefing. Perhaps this should be included?
This talk about an emergency descent causing ear problems - surely it's the initial depressurisation that causes that? You're going from a pressure altitude of 8,000' to perhaps 41,000' in a matter of seconds. An emergency descent is going to take about 4 minutes (at a typical 8000fpm descent rate).
Agree that a recorded message should be triggered, warning pax of a descent, reminding them to put on their own masks before helping others, and saying that the crew will provide an update as soon as all necessary emergency actions have been successfully completed. Not sure this should triggered by the masks dropping - they have been known to deploy accidentally. Perhaps when one of the flight crew takes out his/her oxygen mask, or when the FO switches the (guarded and wired) Passenger Oxygen Switch to on. (This is done as a memory item in the case of a depressurisation to ensure that the passenger masks have deployed.)
All in all, seems the Ryanair crew did everthing correctly. In the passenger's defence, you can see why they'd fear for their lives though. It's easy to criticise people (and the media), but unless you know how these things work, there's bound to be a bit of hysteria. Bet there are thousands of people out there that don't even know that air pressure drops with altitude. Plenty more seem to think that a depressurisation causes the descent as the plane falls out of the sky.
My airline does not mention that the bag on the pax oxygen masks may not inflate, though I've heard it somewhere in a safety briefing. Perhaps this should be included?
This talk about an emergency descent causing ear problems - surely it's the initial depressurisation that causes that? You're going from a pressure altitude of 8,000' to perhaps 41,000' in a matter of seconds. An emergency descent is going to take about 4 minutes (at a typical 8000fpm descent rate).
Agree that a recorded message should be triggered, warning pax of a descent, reminding them to put on their own masks before helping others, and saying that the crew will provide an update as soon as all necessary emergency actions have been successfully completed. Not sure this should triggered by the masks dropping - they have been known to deploy accidentally. Perhaps when one of the flight crew takes out his/her oxygen mask, or when the FO switches the (guarded and wired) Passenger Oxygen Switch to on. (This is done as a memory item in the case of a depressurisation to ensure that the passenger masks have deployed.)
All in all, seems the Ryanair crew did everthing correctly. In the passenger's defence, you can see why they'd fear for their lives though. It's easy to criticise people (and the media), but unless you know how these things work, there's bound to be a bit of hysteria. Bet there are thousands of people out there that don't even know that air pressure drops with altitude. Plenty more seem to think that a depressurisation causes the descent as the plane falls out of the sky.
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Dicksorchard said:
Last time I was on an FR flight the F/A dished out a right bollocking to some idiot that was talking during the demo. 
Not once have i ever watched a safety demonstration onboard where i have thought for one minute that the Ryanair Cabin Crew where simply going thru the motions !
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Next time put your paper down and listen to what the cabin crew tell you during the safety brief, 
moron!
Real intelligent comments there
When most passengers naively step onboard a pax jet to get from a to b,
most will be in their little bubbles not thinking of the dangers, and I am afraid if thats what you all want pax bubbles burst, then you will all soon be out of jobs??
These passengers that you so easily slag off pay your wages, lets not forget that.
And with the current coverage of fatal air accidents, fume events, full emergancy landings, pax jumping onto tarmac from burning planes ect,
pax would have been unequivicaly frightened for their lives, especially with their little ones sat next to them!
It matters NOT what any safety card says about placing the 50% mix of oxygen and cabin air?? over your face first, any parent would tend to their child first NO MATTER WHAT..
The artic explorer may also be aware of, NOT so commonly reported health risks from a depress,
He will probably be fully aware of the risk of pulmonary odeama, which would be another reason why he would tend to his child first.
The fact that the crew managed to get this aircraft on the ground without fatalities should be applauded, but not without casualtie's..
Maybe you should direct your ignorance and blame away from the pax, and more so towards what caused the depress, and who may be responsible there!
moron!Real intelligent comments there
When most passengers naively step onboard a pax jet to get from a to b,
most will be in their little bubbles not thinking of the dangers, and I am afraid if thats what you all want pax bubbles burst, then you will all soon be out of jobs??
These passengers that you so easily slag off pay your wages, lets not forget that.
And with the current coverage of fatal air accidents, fume events, full emergancy landings, pax jumping onto tarmac from burning planes ect,
pax would have been unequivicaly frightened for their lives, especially with their little ones sat next to them!
It matters NOT what any safety card says about placing the 50% mix of oxygen and cabin air?? over your face first, any parent would tend to their child first NO MATTER WHAT..
The artic explorer may also be aware of, NOT so commonly reported health risks from a depress,
He will probably be fully aware of the risk of pulmonary odeama, which would be another reason why he would tend to his child first.
The fact that the crew managed to get this aircraft on the ground without fatalities should be applauded, but not without casualtie's..
Maybe you should direct your ignorance and blame away from the pax, and more so towards what caused the depress, and who may be responsible there!
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Ryanair Cabin Crew
I apologize for the wording of My Previous post Not once have i ever watched a safety demonstration onboard where i have thought for one minute that the Ryanair Cabin Crew where simply going thru the motions !
I get myself easily misconstrued ! but you know what i meant
That they actually performed the safety demonstrations in a very professional manner .
thanks for pointing that out jacob79
Motions indeed !
I get myself easily misconstrued ! but you know what i meant
That they actually performed the safety demonstrations in a very professional manner .
thanks for pointing that out jacob79
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As someone who knows a lot of FR cabin crew and pilots I can say that safety is of paramount importance to them and the airline. Cabin crew often talk about how they've had to stop the safety demo's in order to get people to listen. I get SO annoyed when I'm on a flight and people are shouting and talking, in fact I've told other pax to ssshh up before.
Of course the crew aren't going to make an announcement before or during the emergency FFS, what planet are some people on. I don't work in aviation and I know that obviously the number one priority is to get the plane into a safe situation/height before any announcements are made.
It sounds to me like the crew did a sterling job. To the idiot who wonders why the cabin crew weren't checking pax, it's because they have to get oxygen masks on themselves or because of depressurisation they'll die. Doesn't anyone remember that incident in Greece?? This could have happened again. Next time, maybe people will listen to the safety drill.
Ryanair are a NO FRILLS airline whoever was moaning about being treated like cattle. If you pay a tenner, what do you expect. When the flights are on time and all goes smoothly, I don't hear anyone complaining.
Anyway, rant over and to the Ryanair crew who got everyone safely on the ground.
Of course the crew aren't going to make an announcement before or during the emergency FFS, what planet are some people on. I don't work in aviation and I know that obviously the number one priority is to get the plane into a safe situation/height before any announcements are made.
It sounds to me like the crew did a sterling job. To the idiot who wonders why the cabin crew weren't checking pax, it's because they have to get oxygen masks on themselves or because of depressurisation they'll die. Doesn't anyone remember that incident in Greece?? This could have happened again. Next time, maybe people will listen to the safety drill.
Ryanair are a NO FRILLS airline whoever was moaning about being treated like cattle. If you pay a tenner, what do you expect. When the flights are on time and all goes smoothly, I don't hear anyone complaining.
Anyway, rant over and
to the Ryanair crew who got everyone safely on the ground.
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itsresidualmate - thanks for the explanation. A useful thing to know just in case.
Maybe briefings could be reworded ("pull the oxygen mask so that at least X feet of tube is visible" might be helpful). Right now the instructions seem to be "pull this thing an unspecified amount - there's no way to tell whether you pulled it enough except that you'll become unconscious and may die if you didn't (thanks for making my point, D Guerrero!) - if you pull it too hard you may break it" All this is to be done while many people are panicking. Subsequent irrational upset is not surprising and might be reduced with a little rewording.
Maybe briefings could be reworded ("pull the oxygen mask so that at least X feet of tube is visible" might be helpful). Right now the instructions seem to be "pull this thing an unspecified amount - there's no way to tell whether you pulled it enough except that you'll become unconscious and may die if you didn't (thanks for making my point, D Guerrero!) - if you pull it too hard you may break it" All this is to be done while many people are panicking. Subsequent irrational upset is not surprising and might be reduced with a little rewording.
Maybe briefings could be reworded ("pull the oxygen mask so that at least X feet of tube is visible" might be helpful). Right now the instructions seem to be "pull this thing an unspecified amount - there's no way to tell whether you pulled it enough except that you'll become unconscious and may die if you didn't (thanks for making my point, D Guerrero!) - if you pull it too hard you may break it" All this is to be done while many people are panicking. Subsequent irrational upset is not surprising and might be reduced with a little rewording.
It matters NOT what any safety card says about placing the 50% mix of oxygen and cabin air?? over your face first, any parent would tend to their child first NO MATTER WHAT..
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Have travelled at least 7 times with Ryanair in the past 2 weeks and the cabin crew on all of the flights stated that the mask had to be pulled down in order to start the flow of air - I suspect that with the panic people just forgot and expected to have air straight away.
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I am a frequent commuter on Ryanair as well as an airline pilot of long standing. I have seen numerous safety briefings with them. Out of courtesy, I always pay attention. I am sometimes one of the minority who actually do. It is all there in the briefing! Watch it carefully and LISTEN!
I practice loss of pressurisation drills periodically. There are normally on most types pre-recorded announcements that start when the masks are released manually or automatically- simultaneously switching seat belt signs on as well. The pilots are very very heavily committed to bringing the plane down and talking to ATC and trying to communicate with a large mask on. Talking to the passengers on the PA would cause alarm with the heavy breathing noises and peculiar sound effects. This has to wait until level flight is regained. The cabin crew have to try and survive themselves by grabbing any available mask and holding on, because they know the plane is going to do some peculiar things. Only when level flight is regained and an announcement comes from the pilots can they move and carry out checking the passengers. This is established procedure and is not changeable, despite 'better' ideas from all and sundry.
Ryanair coped well with this one. I detect a bit of 'I'm Pen Hadow- don't you know who I am? Why did the pilot say nothing to me and where are the groundstaff to look after me?' in the radio report I heard. Well done again- some people were hurt because of the emergency. Meanwhile, let's find out what caused the problem- that is all that matters now.
The level of expectation for fares down to 5 euros seems incredible. Limoges is a small Ryanair destination with presumably just a handling agent- Hadow expected boatloads of Ryanair staff running around at his whim! Someone said he went to Eton? Maybe it shows in arrogance!
I practice loss of pressurisation drills periodically. There are normally on most types pre-recorded announcements that start when the masks are released manually or automatically- simultaneously switching seat belt signs on as well. The pilots are very very heavily committed to bringing the plane down and talking to ATC and trying to communicate with a large mask on. Talking to the passengers on the PA would cause alarm with the heavy breathing noises and peculiar sound effects. This has to wait until level flight is regained. The cabin crew have to try and survive themselves by grabbing any available mask and holding on, because they know the plane is going to do some peculiar things. Only when level flight is regained and an announcement comes from the pilots can they move and carry out checking the passengers. This is established procedure and is not changeable, despite 'better' ideas from all and sundry.
Ryanair coped well with this one. I detect a bit of 'I'm Pen Hadow- don't you know who I am? Why did the pilot say nothing to me and where are the groundstaff to look after me?' in the radio report I heard. Well done again- some people were hurt because of the emergency. Meanwhile, let's find out what caused the problem- that is all that matters now.
The level of expectation for fares down to 5 euros seems incredible. Limoges is a small Ryanair destination with presumably just a handling agent- Hadow expected boatloads of Ryanair staff running around at his whim! Someone said he went to Eton? Maybe it shows in arrogance!
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No probs Beausoleil.
With reference to this force issue, you can pull a domestic plug out the socket in your living room with as much force and as fast as you want; you aren't going to damage it 'cos once it's out it's out! The only thing you could feasibly damage is the oxygen hose if you pulled it far enough, but unless you have orang-utan arms that isn't going to be a problem!
With reference to this force issue, you can pull a domestic plug out the socket in your living room with as much force and as fast as you want; you aren't going to damage it 'cos once it's out it's out! The only thing you could feasibly damage is the oxygen hose if you pulled it far enough, but unless you have orang-utan arms that isn't going to be a problem!
Last edited by itsresidualmate; 26th Aug 2008 at 20:36.